OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #81

[rsd1200]

So the reporting is meh, (and the sound on one of the attorneys is bad) but the attorney discussion is worth a listen regarding some things we haven't really discussed:

Will the jury believe the child was assaulted (or in danger of so)
And
GW sentencing possibilities

If I believe the child may have been in danger, and I'm on the jury, the W4 still took the law into their own hands, and had zero right to take the lives of eight people. I have no doubt, at this point, if asked, that G4 was there that night, but even if he wasn't, I've no doubt he played some part in it all, so I'd have to got guilty for G4. At this stage. Just b/c Mountain Justice is a thang, it doesn't mean it's above the law.

 

[justtrish]

Finally lunch and I wonder then if Nash is done? I couldn't really tell from the video if it looked like they wrapped it up. I didn't see AC do any re direct so maybe Nash isn't done or he is and AC will re direct after lunch. I can't imagine she doesn't want to clear anything up after cross.

 

[Pru2U]

Break for lunch, I think.

 

[Fat Old Man]

Am, I the only one thinking FW, will plead the 5th when she is on the stand?

 

[Pru2U]

James Pilcher @jamespilcher

Highlights from the end of defense cross examination of Angela Wagner, mother of defendant George Wagner IV in the Pike County massacre case

Defense lawyer Richard Nash repeatedly got Angela to admit she dragged her mother into a murder plot with the forgery of custody documents. She was willing to do that but not willing to have to make Jake testify against her.

"I did not want to make him go through what I'm going through" she said.

As for her mother Angela says "You are absolutely correct. I was trying to protect my family."

"I have regret. I have remorse. And I am more than sorry, but that's not enough. She (her granddaughter) was a baby. She was family." That was a reference to the suspected abuse granddaughter was receiving at Rhodens.

She's asked - is that what you still believe? "I never actually wanted anyone to be murdered from the very beginning." Agrees she took the deal to possibly see her grandchildren at some point.

Nash also asks if she thinks getting the equivalent of 4 years for each of the 8 victims is a good deal. "That's not how I understand it" but then Angela agrees the math is what it is.

 

[Cool Cats]

I may have missed it but I did not see anything about Angela selling puppies during yesterday’s testimony but there’s a mention in this near the end. Not a big deal but good example of how some reporters catch different or more (or less) things that were said. They often hear the same thing but publish in different ways. AW’s testimony about George’s footprint is a good example.

Angela Wagner ties son to crime scenes with footprints, says she regrets sons' involvement

Angela Wagner will return to the stand to testify about the murders of seven Rhoden family members and Hannah Gilley in her son, George's

local12.com

From article,

The defense also discussed a letter Angela wrote to her mother-in-law Fredericka Wagner after she pled guilty.

In it, Angela said she could not bring herself to make Jake testify against her. Jake is the youngest son, who pleaded guilty earlier last year to all charges in exchange for life in prison without parole.

Also on the stand, Angela said it was her idea to plead guilty, and had not been approached by the state. She said she took the deal in the hopes of one day getting out of prison to give her sons and grandchildren hugs and kisses.

**********************************************************************************************************

Canepa offered plea deals to all 4. I do believe Angela was approached by the State about a plea. Maybe it was LWOP, I don't know, but Canepa was clear in court that all 4 defendants were offered a plea and only Jake took it.

Angie's letter shows us she tried to stay in Fred's "good graces" and tried to keep in touch with her but I doubt Fred wants anything to do with her. Fred could be furious that Angie nagged Billy "to do something" and Angie egged them on with all her abuse talk. Angie, thus, helped ruin her son, grandsons, and FWF's reputation.

Angie didn't want Jake testifying against her yet she is giving testimony against George that totally implicates George in the conspiracy, the whole murder conspiracy. This is even more reason I don't think Fred puts 2 cents into her jail account, I wonder who does? Can't call anyone without paying $ for the calls.

(I read a jail incident report and Angie says she has no $ for phone calls, says her son's did it so she shouldn't be in jail. She asks how to get a new identity, red flag about wanting to "break out" so to speak. Consider this my opinion only, there are no MSM links to these jail incident reports so I am not stating them as fact.)

Billy might insist on a trial to stay in Fred's good graces. He needs her money and can keep telling her he is innocent. A plea means he has to admit guilt which could cause Fred to ignore him. By saying he is innocent
looks better, he can say "see mom I'm innocent, don't believe what Jake and Angie say."

I hope Fred testifies on the stand and we get an inkling into what she thinks about the Wagner 4.

 

[Pru2U]

Courtney Francisco
@CFranciscoWCPO

Angela testified that in their home there was a lot of yelling and disagreements. She said Billy was abusive to her physically. She said he threatened to make her come with him to commit these murders at one point.

She said Billy gave her instructions on what she was to do. She was to send text messages from George and Jake's phones to make it look like they were home during the homicides.

The defense attorney accused her of not sending one from George's phone, but Angela said, "I am pretty sure I did both phones."

evening of the murders, the defense pointed out she didn't hear the truck leave, she never saw who went to commit the massacre, she doesn't remember Jake playing Boondock Saints clip for her, she can't tell us who shot who, the route, who was shot first or the weapons used.

Defense pointed out her history of dishonesty starting with calling law enforcement on George's ex-wife and accusing her of having drugs in her vehicle. Then, he said she lied and dragged her mother into the murders.

Then, the defense said you would be willing to lie about George for the chance to get out of jail in 30 years and see your grandkids again. "Your goal is to one day get out and see your grandchildren," said Nash. Angela replied, "Yes."

Defense pointed out that she is interested in protecting herself to see the grandkids again one day.
Nash: You are here to save yourself. You are here testifying in a death penalty case against your son. You had no regard for your mother or your son.

Nash: Would you agree with me that four years for every life you took was a great deal?
Rhodens watching in the audience started to cry at that point.

Angela said she is more than sorry but that's not enough. She said Sophia was just a baby, she was my family. So, Angela felt she had to kill to protect her.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

If I believe the child may have been in danger, and I'm on the jury, the W4 still took the law into their own hands, and had zero right to take the lives of eight people. I have no doubt, at this point, if asked, that G4 was there that night, but even if he wasn't, I've no doubt he played some part in it all, so I'd have to got guilty for G4. At this stage. Just b/c Mountain Justice is a thang, it doesn't mean it's above the law.

Certainly they didn't believe that Dana Rhoden or Hannah Hazel Gilley or Ken molested the child. They had no proof that anyone did. Jake raised the potential for this with Hanna (so he says) but I'm sticking with my instinct that child sexual abuse (like the poisoning accusations) was a way to argue that the Wagners should have control of the kids and no one else should babysit or have access out of the Wagner home. Someone who really suspected child abuse would have talked not only to Hanna but also to Dana, with whom Hanna lived. And the child would have been taken to the doctor. But instead, they opt for murder using "sex abuse" as their "reason."

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Courtney Francisco
@CFranciscoWCPO

Angela testified that in their home there was a lot of yelling and disagreements. She said Billy was abusive to her physically. She said he threatened to make her come with him to commit these murders at one point.

She said Billy gave her instructions on what she was to do. She was to send text messages from George and Jake's phones to make it look like they were home during the homicides.

The defense attorney accused her of not sending one from George's phone, but Angela said, "I am pretty sure I did both phones."

evening of the murders, the defense pointed out she didn't hear the truck leave, she never saw who went to commit the massacre, she doesn't remember Jake playing Boondock Saints clip for her, she can't tell us who shot who, the route, who was shot first or the weapons used.

Defense pointed out her history of dishonesty starting with calling law enforcement on George's ex-wife and accusing her of having drugs in her vehicle. Then, he said she lied and dragged her mother into the murders.

Then, the defense said you would be willing to lie about George for the chance to get out of jail in 30 years and see your grandkids again. "Your goal is to one day get out and see your grandchildren," said Nash. Angela replied, "Yes."

Defense pointed out that she is interested in protecting herself to see the grandkids again one day.
Nash: You are here to save yourself. You are here testifying in a death penalty case against your son. You had no regard for your mother or your son.

Nash: Would you agree with me that four years for every life you took was a great deal?
Rhodens watching in the audience started to cry at that point.

Angela said she is more than sorry but that's not enough. She said Sophia was just a baby, she was my family. So, Angela felt she had to kill to protect her.

I don't know that attacking Angela (who was CLEARLY not at the murder scenes) and talking about "every life you took" is going to help George, who was there, based on testimony and footprints, as those lives were being ended. If Angela is a murderer, George is too. Not what I would be reminding the jury.

 

[Pru2U]

Todd Dykes
@ToddDykesWLWT

For the 1st time, Angela Wagner said the following a short time ago: "I have regret & I have remorse & I am more than sorry." She continued, by saying she - meaning the daughter Jake had w/ Hanna Rhoden - was her baby & that the baby was her family (& had to be protected).

Jurors are on a lunch break until 1. #PikeCountyMassacre

Compelling point made by #GeorgeWagner's attorney Richard Nash. He said during cross: You can't say who shot who? The route that was taken? Who was shot 1st? What weapons were used? And where the weapons were hidden? Angela answered: "No."

 

[Dudly]

I may have missed it but I did not see anything about Angela selling puppies during yesterday’s testimony but there’s a mention in this near the end. Not a big deal but good example of how some reporters catch different or more (or less) things that were said. They often hear the same thing but publish in different ways. AW’s testimony about George’s footprint is a good example.

Angela Wagner ties son to crime scenes with footprints, says she regrets sons' involvement

Angela Wagner will return to the stand to testify about the murders of seven Rhoden family members and Hannah Gilley in her son, George's

local12.com

The dog kennel she owned burned and the dogs were killed….she mentioned it on her Facebook page… No link so MOO…

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Todd Dykes
@ToddDykesWLWT

Final note before heading back to the courtroom - Prosecutors have made much of a FB message Angela saw while snooping online. Hanna Rhoden said, in effect, "They'll have to kill me first," before she would sign away custody of her daughter.

Angela the message had nothing to do w/ fueling her family's desire to kill 8 members of the Rhoden family

It was just a coincidence, right...?

Edited to add: Redirect ought to be something.

 

[rsd1200]

Certainly they didn't believe that Dana Rhoden or Hannah Hazel Gilley or Ken molested the child. They had no proof that anyone did. Jake raised the potential for this with Hanna (so he says) but I'm sticking with my instinct that child sexual abuse (like the poisoning accusations) was a way to argue that the Wagners should have control of the kids and no one else should babysit or have access out of the Wagner home. Someone who really suspected child abuse would have talked not only to Hanna but also to Dana, with whom Hanna lived. And the child would have been taken to the doctor. But instead, they opt for murder using "sex abuse" as their "reason."

I don't know what's in the minds of the jury, just making a theory about how no matter, it still comes out to guilty. However there was certainly enough s/a going on in the lives surrounding others in this trial to warrant it being given thought. We know it happened in the R family in the past, not that I know that the jury knows this though.

 

[Chelly]

I am glad prosecution finally connected all the dots to prove GW4's involvement to the jury. Preponderance of evidence comes to mind.

 

[Pru2U]

I have posted what's out there for now. I've got about 30 more minutes (in case someone adds something) before I have to step away. I did see one random post that said Defense was finished with AW but haven't been able to confirm it.

 

[Chelly]

I have posted what's out there for now. I've got about 30 more minutes (in case someone adds something) before I have to step away. I did see one random post that said Defense was finished with AW but haven't been able to confirm it.

Hope defense is finished with AW and AC does a quick re-direct today. I'm looking forward to Silas Wagner's testimony re vehicle used in murder. Please Silas... at least agree to audio!!!!!!

 

[Pru2U]

I don't know what's in the minds of the jury, just making a theory about how no matter, it still comes out to guilty. However there was certainly enough s/a going on in the lives surrounding others in this trial to warrant it being given thought. We know it happened in the R family in the past, not that I know that the jury knows this though.

CR's father's issue was mentioned a couple of times but I don't remember how it came up. Also, Jake mentioned HR being raped in a text between two of them that was read aloud by J Eversledge( I think it was her). Those 2 things did come out. Also Tabi's stepfather. There's been plenty of talk about it for sure.

I think because I'm so close to it, it didn't dawn on me the jury would seriously consider AW was telling the truth about little S. That was a good wake-up call.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I have posted what's out there for now. I've got about 30 more minutes (in case someone adds something) before I have to step away. I did see one random post that said Defense was finished with AW but haven't been able to confirm it.

Thank you so much--and the others posting the news reporting on Twitter and elsewhere.

 

[Pru2U]

Hope defense is finished with AW and AC does a quick re-direct today. I'm looking forward to Silas Wagner's testimony re vehicle used in murder. Please Silas... at least agree to audio!!!!!!

Did Silas miss the memo? Why didn't he speak up about the truck when DeWine put the APB out (when W-4 went to AK)?

 

[rescuemom]

What would she do for income? No kids to put to work. Many people won't hire violent felons, even if she weren't over 70+. She won't have much if any Social Security, no pension plan. Maybe she can live with her brother if he's still alive but beyond that, out of prison is probably worse for her than prison. But being a criminal, she won't think that far ahead.

She would probably get minimum SS or SSI