OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #82

[ColMustard]

That's another reason I don't think they had the hay on top. Extra time. They had to be fast and take it apart and get the truck to GW3's niece at nearly sunup wasn't it?

Three guys can kick the hay off in a minute. The floor was probably secured as least as possible, take out some bolts and flip it off in the barn. One sheet of wood and two or three 2x4s. Maybe it was kindling for the shoes etc to burn.

 

[rsd1200]

But hay dropped along the road wouldn't be so out of place with so many farms around. Without a report to police that a truck load of hay was seen leaving the scene, they may not give it much attention.

One layer of hay, or no hay at all, it seems to have worked.

He said 18 bales didn't he? It would be out of place at AW's, KR's, going up and down and back on both sides. BCI would have noticed there was no hay delivered for any animal there. It's not usual to feed a pig regular hay. Silage is what we fed. I just don't think there was any hay. I don't think it's enough to turn a jury though.

 

[rsd1200]

Sorry, I stepped away.

We were discussing how Judge Deering chose not to run for re-election. His term expires on Feb 8, 2023. The only candidate on the ballot to fill Judge Deering's vacancy is Rob Junk, who has been Pike County prosecutor for many years. Junk is now on the prosecution team for George Wagner IV's trial.

If Judge Deering finishes this trial before his term ends, the next trial scheduled for the Rhoden family massacre case is Billy Wagner. IIRC they have tentatively scheduled Billy's trial to begin early next year.

If Rob Junk becomes the new judge for Pike County Common Pleas Court, does he have to recuse himself from presiding over Billy Wagner's trial because he served as prosecutor on all 4 Wagners?

As if things couldn't get more complicated, haha.

Oh heaven's sake I hope he does (recuses himself). I have no faith in him. Can we say mistrial.

 

[Myland]

They were proving two men the size of JW and GWIV could fit in that space. They weren’t proving you could haul a load of hay with it. MOO

Jmo that’s true I guess not proving Jake was truthful. I agree with them on that point.

 

[Betty P]

Forgive me if this is the wrong place to ask but I’ve been looking and can’t find Jake’s arrest warrant? Or the paper that says exactly what LE said the Wagner’s did. Can someone post a link or tell me how to find it?

I'm on my way out the door, but I'm posting a link to our Media, Timelines, Documents section here at WS. This sub has links and copies of many of the court documents regarding all the Wagners. There isn't a copy of the arrest warrant, but links to the indictment and another document that I cant recall the name of.

OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*

Billy Wagner Motion for Speedy Trial Pro Se Filed Oct 14 2020

www.websleuths.com

 

[rsd1200]

I think AC got enough of the recordings in today that it will be a nice push at the end, as long as they can present everything in clear bullet point fashion in closing, it should be clear for the jury in order to make their decision. I think it will be guilty at least on the majority of counts.

22 counts, it's going to take a while to get through the finish. But we still have to wait on the defense first and they're going to keep trying to pull a rabbit out of the hat. The wheels of justice...

I have not heard those yet. Missed the whole day. Just catching up.

 

[rsd1200]

Here is the opening AC gave talking about the hay. I also found Angenette LEvy's tweets about it and she tweeted that Jake said hay or straw would go on top to make it look like the truck was full. No mention of a number. I am still looking for that.

AC opening:

Jake will tell you that they modified the truck. They built a false bed where the high hooks were kind of there's a there's a level plane and then there's some eye hooks kind of on that. On top of that, he put the two by fours up and then put plywood and then put hay on top of that. So it would look like the bed was full of hay.


What makes sense is George is along to ensure nothing goes wrong. He's a lookout with his SKS rifle that is good for concealed shooting from afar. I don't think the intent was ever for him to be inside up close and personal like Jake was.. it was Jake's "problem" so Jake had to bare the brunt of the duties. Now weather Jake is minimizing and "not recalling" now because he wants to paint himself as the big man and his brother as having a smaller role to somehow justify it in his mind that he's testifying against him in court. I think that is possible. I don't really think it matters in the big picture though because we aren't just taking Jake and Angela's word for what George did.. remove their testimony and I still see a guilty man that went along with his families plan.

Thank you, Idk where I heard 18 bales, but I thought that was serious overkill no pun intended.

 

[ColMustard]

He said 18 bales didn't he? It would be out of place at AW's, KR's, going up and down and back on both sides. BCI would have noticed there was no hay delivered for any animal there. It's not usual to feed a pig regular hay. Silage is what we fed. I just don't think there was any hay. I don't think it's enough to turn a jury though.

I've tried to picture 18 bales on that truck, on top of the false floor. Seems like it would be an awfully tall load, above the roofline of the cab by a lot..

I just don't think JW's account is so precise. FWF has horses, right? "Where are you going with that load of hay Wagners?" It's for granny's horses officer, we're dropping it off before we go home. Any story almost. Where's the hay? It was moldy so we burned it with our new shoes.

 

[rsd1200]

Jmo I don’t about your first part. But Jake and Angela both had huge incentives to lie. They wanted to save their own rear ends. After all we have heard about them two, do we really believe there is another life they value more than their own. They had to put George there or no deal. He had been in jail three years. No way state would accept a deal without George.

I agree with this, based on Prosecution leaving out the interrogation with GW4 at the border.

 

[PrairieWind]

Sorry, I stepped away.

We were discussing how Judge Deering chose not to run for re-election. His term expires on Feb 8, 2023. The only candidate on the ballot to fill Judge Deering's vacancy is Rob Junk, who has been Pike County prosecutor for many years. Junk is now on the prosecution team for George Wagner IV's trial.

If Judge Deering finishes this trial before his term ends, the next trial scheduled for the Rhoden family massacre case is Billy Wagner. IIRC they have tentatively scheduled Billy's trial to begin early next year.

If Rob Junk becomes the new judge for Pike County Common Pleas Court, does he have to recuse himself from presiding over Billy Wagner's trial because he served as prosecutor on all 4 Wagners?

As if things couldn't get more complicated, haha.

Oh yes, clearly they would assign the case to a different Judge. I don't think that would be much of a problem.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think AC got enough of the recordings in today that it will be a nice push at the end, as long as they can present everything in clear bullet point fashion in closing, it should be clear for the jury in order to make their decision. I think it will be guilty at least on the majority of counts.

22 counts, it's going to take a while to get through the finish. But we still have to wait on the defense first and they're going to keep trying to pull a rabbit out of the hat. The wheels of justice...

HA!

The defense will have to pull a miracle out of the hat. They need to convince one juror that both Jake and Angela were lying about George's involvement, lying that George was even at the murder scenes, and believe George didn't know anything. One juror.

Then it is a mistrial and we get to do it all over again. No way will the defense convince 12 people. I think if one has doubts that the others will convince them otherwise. Happens all the time.

It's A fact Jack, that when co-defendants turn State's evidence and testify for the Prosecution, it is allmost impossible for the defense to win their Case. Without Angela and Jake testifying, George would have a reasonable chance to maybe beat some of his charges, maybe be acquitted of the murders and even all of the charges. Mom and brother are sending him to prison.

Lesson: never waive your speedy trial rights. Have your trial before your co-defendants turn on you. Fred did not waive her speedy trial rights and got her charges dismissed because they ran out of time. Prosecution said they needed more time to go over other evidence.

 

[Myland]

This trial has made me realize that maybe our courts are a little "rusty". The vast majority of cases today are settled before the trial. Most of the activity (just guessing) is arraignments, pre-trial hearings, etc. It's not that often there are full courtroom trials and major murder trials like these are pretty rare.

Prosecutors, judges and defense attorneys aren't used to doing business this way on a regular basis.

Jmo especially in Pike county. Not used to even getting an arrest let alone a trial.

 

[ohioexpat63]

Earth shattering news! There were strands of hay on a southern ohio country road in April. LEO were dealing with 8 murders in 4 locations. They sure as heck werent worried about a few strands of hay, grass or anything else that was blown about by traffic, well before the bodies were discovered. Hay is as readily available as mj growing in them there hills. Defense making hay about lack of hay. Rich!!!

 

[ohioexpat63]

Three guys can kick the hay off in a minute. The floor was probably secured as least as possible, take out some bolts and flip it off in the barn. One sheet of wood and two or three 2x4s. Maybe it was kindling for the shoes etc to burn.

Exactly. They didnt build the Taj Mahal.

 

[Cool Cats]

Every now and then I get a creepy feeling that for Angela it was also about her level of control and power over her husband and sons— that she could manipulate them into doing anything for her, including murder. JMO.

I bet she couldn't do this to Fred. Doesn't look like she got anything from Fred she probably tried to get. She complained about working 16 hour 3rd shifts for Fred cleaning stalls and having to run Crystal Spring residents to appointments when she "could stand it." Fred sold the trailer and property they lived on out from under them so they were mad and burned down the trailer for insurance money.

Fred never showed up at Angie's hearings and when Angie tried to sell a horse for Fred, Fred called her and told her she didn't charge enough according to a horse website I posted a long time ago.

Nope. I think Fred was the one person Angie couldn't control.

 

[Piffcat]

I believe they needed two of four at least to admit the killings. Otherwise, the other 3 just claim the 1 is lying to get out of the DP.
Got JW at the murders
Got AW setting things up

Got BW and GW... no way out.

i mean yes i think thats what they would tell you thei rthinking was. but that is an unrealistic bar to set for any conspiracy and does not reflect any of the case law decions. under once a co defendant has pled guilty and admitted that a. a conspiract existed. b. for a defendant to be included in teh admitted conspiract requires 2 things. tesimony from aoncspiracy admiter that the defendant participated in the conspiracy with a succesful goal of murder. number 2 i called an overt act. a piece of evidence proving inclusiom to the conspiracy independant of the co conspirators statement. the prosecutor has this in spades. as court tv said this case could be prosecuted blind. the evidence is overwelming. sure its one more person to say g4 went along and voted yes. but besides that she denies having even the vaguest detail about the murder scenes..

 

[justtrish]

i mean yes i think thats what they would tell you thei rthinking was. but that is an unrealistic bar to set for any conspiracy and does not reflect any of the case law decions. under once a co defendant has pled guilty and admitted that a. a conspiract existed. b. for a defendant to be included in teh admitted conspiract requires 2 things. tesimony from aoncspiracy admiter that the defendant participated in the conspiracy with a succesful goal of murder. number 2 i called an overt act. a piece of evidence proving inclusiom to the conspiracy independant of the co conspirators statement. the prosecutor has this in spades. as court tv said this case could be prosecuted blind. the evidence is overwelming. sure its one more person to say g4 went along and voted yes. but besides that she denies having even the vaguest detail about the murder scenes..

I think her testimony was important to establish motive. She is crazy and she showed that on the stand. The obsession about sophia being molested was what pushed Billy to get a plan. She really showed I think that this did happen because she had to have Sophia and she pushed those boys to figure it out. It's so much easier to hear this from the horses mouth than to take Jake's word for it. We needed to see Jake on the stand to understand he's also crazy. People I think have a hard time with mass murder. We understand self defense, we understand someone snapped and in a fit of rage something happened we can even understand gang violence or something being killed in a robbery gone wrong. We don't like it, but we can see how it happens. Who really could just accept this was all about custody of a ltitle girl and this cult like family did it because of that? When they both take the stand we see well that explains that. I'm not sure the same understanding of how messed up this family is to get to that point would have been explained.

Same way we see George sitting there quiet, not really reactive, and hear people testify he was nice, he was smart, etc. Then we hear him on recordings and think well that isn't consistent with what we've seen and heard. Hearing him hits it home more so than hearing others talk about him.

 

[Cool Cats]

MSN

Cincinnati Enquirer - 22m ago

WAVERLY, Ohio − Jurors got light duty Tuesday in the Pike County murder trial of George Wagner IV, as lawyers wrangled over final evidence the prosecution wants to show.

By the end of the day, the numbers told the tale:

Ninety: That’s how many minutes the jury was in the courtroom, down from about six hours most days. Pike County Common Pleas Judge Randy Deering gave the 12 jurors and six alternates a two-and-half hour lunch break and then held them in a courthouse jury room from 1 to 3:30 p.m., only to call them back to the courtroom and recess for the day.

Forty-eight: That’s how many discrete pieces of evidence – mostly audio recordings – the prosecution planned to play for the jury on Wednesday. Most are conversations culled from four listening devices that investigators installed in the semi-truck that Wagner IV drove with his brother, Edward “Jake” Wagner, in mid-2018.

Twenty-seven: That’s the number of recordings Deering OK’d for airing after the wrangling. Wagner IV’s attorneys had objected to 43 of the 48 files, debating their relevance in heated exchanges with Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa. The judge withheld judgment on eight audio clips, and asked the lawyers to return at 8 a.m. Wednesday to settle on how much or whether to play those for jurors.
One: That’s the number of days left for the prosecution’s side of the case. “Our goal will be to finish our witness and our case,” Canepa said Tuesday.

Also in article:

Defense schedules three witnesses for Thursday

Also in article:

Deering soon to vacate the bench - in February

 

[rsd1200]

Oh wow!

They sure did seem to have an awful time for such adept shooters. They watched them walk to the grow and back iirc. @ColMustard may not be wrong. Seems G3 went in alone didn't he? Comes back out to talk to them, with the ruse of having CR call a non existent phone. I don't dislike it.

 

[rsd1200]

I'd also remind them that the abuse was okay with them for months and months while they planned what to do about it. If this "abuse" was so important to them, then they sure didn't show that by protecting the child until they took care of business. They sent her weekly right off to the very people they claimed were abusing her, they didn't take her to the doctor, or call the police. They just waited and waited and allowed it to continue (if you believe their accusations, which I don't) while they waited for Hannah to have her baby.

THEN the very first thing Jake did was go to the hospital to see about that baby.

If their sick twisted thinking was protect Sophia, then they would have done that immediately.

If you believe your child is being SA and you don't trust police or the dr, then you also don't WAIT for another baby to be born before you protect your own child?

They were calculated and this was about control, NOT about SA. They didn't act like they believed the SA was actually happening. They just didn't. Where was Jake's attempts to keep Sophia longer than he was allowed? If you believed your child was being harmed wouldn't you be saying, I can keep her longer, I mean I'd think he would be overly helpful in taking care of her during the end of Hannah's pregnancy. Don't really see anything like that either.

JW even said he didn't believe anything had happened but, basically, why give it a chance? She had a new man. I bet he was hoping CH was there that night. It was about losing control of everything, but especially control that they never even had, and knew it. Zero say over S. No biz partnership since GR was coming in, so CR1 wasn't going to even say, awww, let them see the baby, this weekend, HM. S may have even been preparing to go into, gasp, public pre-school when they moved. She might assimilate. S was going to have a new step-daddy and a new home off of UHR. No cruising by to check on her, for AW, after going to the store. It was the only reason they could even give; a "what if".