OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #82

[rsd1200]

It filtered through the opening in the bottom of the tailgate. That's an old truck. 2000 model. Putting 12 bales of hay on top would have squashed that truck down until it was maybe 3 or 4 inches from the ground. My opinion? You could not have shoved a man as big as george underneath the muffler, behind the tire and underneath the passenger side with a bull dozer.

JMO

Nooo, I have 2001, of a different make/model/ & a short bed. We've hauled all kinds of stuff including hay and it never squatted that low. The 2000 GMC they had, with three men, yes I added G3, at his weight at time of arrest, b/c he'd be part of the payload, and hay, would be approx 1150-1200#. The payload on that model is around 2400#.

 

[Niner]

Good morning Niner, I will be out of WS office in the am tomorrow, and will need you to cover tweets for me, please? Return around 2:00ish pm ET.

Okay - I can do that! I shall make a note...

 

[pcrum12]

why does 9:30 mean 10-10:30 in this trial lol

 

[rsd1200]

I have some help. Hubby is watching this trial. He said way back in week 2 if it had been him he would never have suggested to the DA to arrest George. they had no evidence. Now today we hear from Agent Ryan S that they had no evidence or even probable cause to arrest george. That is why the wiretaps. Ryan S said the wiretaps were a last ditch effort to get probable cause to arrest george. Even with those they had to take it to a grand jury to arrest him. As the old saying goes a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich. But a conviction is a whole different story. They sat in jail for 3 years. Did not move forward one inch toward a trial. Suddenly Jake gets a wild hair in his butt to confess. The first proffer (the one the defense got) Jake said George was not in on the planning (easy to believe since he was out on the road with billy for a week then with Jake for a week, hunting, philandering, scrapping with Chris N, fishing with friends.) Jake said George was not with them at the murder scenes. Jake said george did not help with the cover up. All in Parkers opening, because that first proffer was all that Parker had.

Then suddenly the guards at TWO jails managed to make a huge screw up and let Jake and Angie talk. Remember that in pre trial hearings??? Now that didn't happen easily. In fact i would say the odds of that is very low. First Angie had to call CN and have him tell Jake a day and time to call CN. To the minute. Or vice versa. then Angie had to call CN at that very same time. By some miracle there were no other prisoners waiting in line to use the phone at jake or Angies jail at that very moment. BTW no guards listening in on either one of their star witnesses. Angie and Jake call CN who merges for a conference call so Jake and mommy can talk to each other for who knows how long? And no guards, BCI, Canepa even bothers to listen to the phone calls you know the jail taped. Ask you self why? How did this very well choreographed conference call slip by so many jailers investigators ect. Want an answer? Because Canepa set that conference call up. Why? Because they had nothing on George. She set it up so jake could tell mommy if you want a 30 year deal, no DP for any of us, we have to give them george. Canepa may even have been on that conference call with them. But the end result was a half azzed attempt by Jake and Angie to put george in it all. Angie couldn't do it until the last few minutes of her testimony when she said "oh BTW, george said he wanted to confess right after the murders and take the fall for all of us, oh and that shoeprint, he said that was his." That after hours of testimony from jake where they never discussed the murders at all. Jake made a half azzed effort to put george in it by saying george had the SKS but for some reason forgot to fire it at Chris sr. So hero jake had to take it from george and shoot. Then Billy goes bat shyte crazy and once again hero Jake has to step in and calm Billy down. Guess george was still in rigor mortis and couldn't move a muscle. Then all of a sudden Jake says he had george dig a hole. But then he testifies he cut up the weapons, he and billy mixed the concrete, and poured it in the buckets. hero jake coming to the rescue again. Then Billy asks george and jake to build a goosebox for gramps birthday. So george helps build a goosebox. No evidence he knew what it would be used for except a gift for gramps on his birthday.

Suddenly Canepa gets a new proffer from jake putting george in the mix of it all and as a bonus a proffer from Angie.

Then we hear from Ryan S today they had nothing on george, not even probable cause to arrest him.

Doesn't any of this sound suspicious to anyone except me and hubby who has been a federal investigator for almost 40 years and worked some horrendous crimes like the Murrah Building?

Then there is the lawsuit George would win against the state of Ohio for keeping him locked up for 3 years without probable cause. The last guy a state did that to got 14 million dollars from the state. Ohio can barely pay for this trial.

Just a few late night thought for you. the biggest being out of hundreds of hours of recordings why doesn't the jury and us get to listen to those phone calls between Jake and Angie that we all know the jail recorded??????

JMO

It's very easy to connect with your jailhouse buddies. Unless someone told, or someone checked, the jails are too overrun and understaffed to even care. There's a technology system in place that detects these calls and sends an alert to the designated person. If it doesn't detect it right off, then they may talk several times or for months if they're good at it, but once detected, they may have allowed them to continue speaking, until the time suits them to punish them and end the calls. I've watched workarounds for decades. Mail your letter to your gf, she mails the letter to your inmate bestie in another jail. Use the right language and it may be a long time before you get caught, if ever, in county.

 

[Pru2U]

George says "I have to go home and confront him with the cold-hearted truth" - he has to tell his son that Angela is not his mommy as he believes.

I don’t get these Wagner people AT ALL. Was George’s role to Vine as a brother or a father? How exactly did George plan to explain they share the same mother while George is his father? It’s just all kinds of effed up.

It hurts my brain. I know better to try to rationalize the irrational but the irrational keeps rearing its ugly head in this trial.

Speaking of…here we go, back to arguing the tapes again - while the jury twiddles their thumbs. Get your acts together guys! BOTH SIDES + Judge.

Rant over.

 

[CIA Team Member]

why does 9:30 mean 10-10:30 in this trial lol

I don't know whether to laugh or cry today. They returned 45 minutes after the hearing discussing transcripts. Only to return to even more discussions. Granted the judge told both parties to work out a problem, but....
Then to hear lunch will be an hour and a half. Why even bother with bringing in the jurors this morning.
Pissing off just one juror is all it'll take. They are human after all.
Perhaps I should clean my house today instead of watching.....

 

[CIA Team Member]

I don’t get these Wagner people AT ALL. Was George’s role to Vine as a brother or a father? How exactly did George plan to explain they share the same mother while George is his father? It’s just all kinds of effed up.

It hurts my brain. I know better to try to rationalize the irrational but the irrational keeps rearing its ugly head in this trial.

Speaking of…here we go, back to arguing the tapes again - while the jury twiddles their thumbs. Get your acts together guys! BOTH SIDES + Judge.

Rant over.

I read/heard Jake referred to mommy dearest as "the family mom." Don't have a link so JMO.

 

[rescuemom]

I think Judge Deering is getting restless and wants this over...can you blame him. What does the state hope to learn from these tapes for this to cause such a big deal and delay???? signed, Frustrated

 

[justtrish]

I don’t get these Wagner people AT ALL. Was George’s role to Vine as a brother or a father? How exactly did George plan to explain they share the same mother while George is his father? It’s just all kinds of effed up.

It hurts my brain. I know better to try to rationalize the irrational but the irrational keeps rearing its ugly head in this trial.

Speaking of…here we go, back to arguing the tapes again - while the jury twiddles their thumbs. Get your acts together guys! BOTH SIDES + Judge.

Rant over.

Man it sounds like the judge won't allow the one where George is "ranting" and threatening Agent Scheiderer. I'm sorry I don't think it's normal to rant on and one about harming someone like that and I agree with the state in light of these charges we don't assume he was not serious. He must have said something about finding out where Agent Scheiderer lives.

 

[Pru2U]

YAY! Maybe we can get through a couple of hours

I read/heard Jake referred to mommy dearest as "the family mom." Don't have a link so JMO.

Illogical. My brain does not compute.

To me, that whole “family mom” thing underscores how interwoven and isolated this family chose to live.

 

[rsd1200]

I think the max she can get off is 4.1 years for good behavior - 56 days per year for good behavior. She can get 90 days more for an academic programs and if she volunteers every day for 25 years, she could get 300 more days. So, you are taking, max, 5 years or so off.

Rule 5120-2-06 - Ohio Administrative Code | Ohio Laws

codes.ohio.gov

Rule 5120-2-05 - Ohio Administrative Code | Ohio Laws

codes.ohio.gov

According to the law, and maybe it's different in Ohio, but she's considered to have started serving her sentence as of her arrest date. So she'll also already have almost four years served, when she's formally sentenced.

 

[ColMustard]

I was confused and thought it was a sheet of plywood. But then i went back and testimony was it was a sheet of OSB. I am thinking that is particle board. Decking for roofs of houses. Am i right? If so it was even weaker than the plywood right?

JMO

OSB and particle board are different materials.

OSB has more shear strength than plywood. Shear is a wall's ability to resist collapsing on itself.

Plywood gets saturated with water quicker than OSB, but plywood dries quicker and resists edge swelling better than OSB.

 

[justtrish]

YAY! Maybe we can get through a couple of hours

Illogical. My brain does not compute.

To me, that whole “family mom” thing underscores how interwoven and isolated this family chose to live.

I don't get it either, especially when Vine's mother is alive and well and there is no indication she didn't want to see him or be in his life. I can see a child getting confused if the biological parent is 100% absent or was never there. Many grandparents become parents and some even are referred to as mom and dad (I think usually when the biological parent is 100% absent and always was)

It is the responsibility of the parents to clear up any confusion though. If he started calling her mommy because he thought she was his mother, then George should have told him that wasn't correct. I don't care how old a child is. Kids are only confused if we don't explain things or we don't' set clear boundaries. They are pretty smart and adapt very well. Vine being confused is all on George as his dad, he wasn't honest to begin with.

 

[arielilane]

And... um... this has to be OH's longest running... ongoing trial ever! IMO

 

[rsd1200]

Thanks! My thought was either (a) the skull represented George and the cards represented AW, JW ans BW or (b) the skull represented the killing and the cards represented GW, BW and JW; that the 8-ball was the killed Rhodens and Hannah Giley.

Even if it's innocuous, it is so not a good look after 8 people you know get killed.

I really like your take. Very creative!
The skull is always usually of dark origin, meaning is known only to the wearer many times. A tattoo is usually special to the person who chooses it. I've known young people who just picked a piece of barbed wire, or a butterfly. No real meaning just a tatt. The man was GW4's regular artist I think, so he likely also knew what George liked and made some suggestions. There's lots of gambling overtones in GW4's. Dice and cards are games of chance. That eight ball tho...

 

[rsd1200]

Maybe AW's confession and court testimony is also a strike back at her MIL. A bit of revenge against an MIL who she felt treated her as little more than a brood mare?

She couldn't get it over on the woman who provided her a home and a job for over 20 years, til she threatened to sell it out from under them, so they burn the house they built with stolen items and lumber, (mean ole lady won't support us any longer), but why take her own son down? She was hardly a broodmare either.

 

[ColMustard]

Ohh nooo... "Can you hear me now?" All day long?

Sounds like the broken drive thru speaker.

 

[justtrish]

This one clip sums it up. I feel so bad for Beth. She said this isn't really sustainable to live like this. She says Angela is jumping to believe that I am worse than a murderer.

 

[dgfred]

It is ok Beth... being a murderer is not bad at all in their eyes. Should have just ignored them.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/jamespilcher


Back in session. Arguing the final recording - logistically they've been able to make changes for first 22 calls. Not been able to get to the last one still up for debate. They can do the others and fix them at lunch with an 1.5 hour lunch.

Rob Junk wants to reopen the rulings barring the perceived threats against BCI agent Scheiderer. Deering had said they were rants not threats. Junk says there is case law stating threats against law enforcement is admission of guilt.

"He keeps pushing me and pushing me ... he's going to have a very bad f---ing day." His head against the pavement and brains are going to spill out on the pavement. They took precautions against threats at the time - Scheiderer had protective guards at his house.

Threatening to rape Scheiderer. Deering says that's a rant.

Scheiderer could testify BCI knew Wagners were Googling his address and the precautions they had to take.

Deering says he doesn't want to have prejudicial content for possible appeals.

Jury now being brought up and seated. We're going to get through first 20 or so recordings this morning (hopefully) then they'll fix the rest at lunch.

Deering provides jury instructions - saying recordings are segments and not full converssation. Also that transcripts are listening aids for this now - and will not be there for them in jury room for deliberations. Now BCI's Julia Eveslage called to stand.

Eveslage says BCI got more help from throughout the agency to help with the wiretaps since it was a bigger effort than in past. They got intercept warrants for phones as well as the R&L truck.

Created a subject matter expert there at all times in wire room who could help listen and determine relevance about conversations in truck and on phones.

They all got briefing from lawyer and legal training to determine what could be listened to.

When truck was parked they weren't listening. The devices would be activated when someone called them - they weren't recording or on unless that happened. And if minimized it is not recording either.

The dates of all the devices and wiretaps. They got two extensions for the 4 devices in truck and had to replace one of them. Started May 24 2018 plus ones for phones. Billy’s phone was early June

- photo too large to post at this time- can be viewed at link or at
@Local12

Went through end of August on the truck, and then through third week of August on Jake and George's phones

Prosecution put something up on screen - judge saying it's not evidence either. First recording now playing - Jake talking to Beth Ann about Mom had said just drop it after that. This is about his daughter's accusation against her about inappropriate touching

Mom is extremely worried, Jake says. Beth Ann basically saying are you going to believe her or me.

"Are you OK," Jake asks. "Nope" says Beth Ann. "It's not really sustainable to live under this kind of suspicion.”

Jake says "All I know is that Mom is leaving it all up to me. Whatever happens is all on me.”

Beth Ann: "It's really difficult to live with someone who thinks I am worse than a murderer and is so willing to believe it. She's jumping to believe I'm worse than a murderer.”

Beth Ann: Relationships are built on trust and this mistrust is eating at my soul. Jake says sorry that he knows why she (Angela) is like that.

Beth Ann: "It makes me just want to not exist." Again, about being under suspicion for inappropriately touching Jake's daughter.

That's the end of that recording. Bailiff is gathering up each transcript after each one is played then getting more.



Will continue on another post...