OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #82

[rsd1200]

Well, they got what they wanted, so what's the problem?

They did? I thought the judge said, No. I guess it was worth the shot for them.

 

[rsd1200]

Ok, I remember this and its a valid argument against allowing them to play only the recording.

The recording might (likely does) contain false statements. Since GW4 himself isn't taking the stand, the state cannot cross examine him on the accuracy of the statements he makes on the recording. People who have committed murder usually do lie to police when interrogated. They usually don't tell the truth until they've been questioned, evidence presented and their attorneys realize they're likely to be found guilty.

No, its impossible to "assume" George is telling the truth in his answers to BCI in that interview. What are jurors supposed to do? Are they supposed to guess one way or the other if GW4 is being honest? Flip a coin?

Here's a solution, though. Follow the rules and play the recording of the interview if GW4 agrees to take the stand and be subjected to cross-examination about his statements in the recording. Defense refuses to do that, though.

George4 refuses to do that.

 

[altojack]

A ticket for not eating lunch? What does that mean? They write you what they call tickets in jails and prisons for infractions but George is at court and inmates can skip meals and eat commissary food later.

I must have misunderstood what was said Thursday or Friday. I thought George had 2 what I called ticket but maybe it was infractions for refusing food where he's locked up and not while he is here in court.

 

[Cool Cats]

Defense offered no evidence of that. As usual, the judge took them at their word and gave them whatever they wanted, at the expense of Ohio taxpayers. Deering did approve of hiring the person. That was his job. Defense attorneys already had someone picked out to do the work. As an Ohio taxpayer, I helped pay for it.

After 4 years of delays, the judge finally stood up to them and started moving on to trial.

It's over, defense got the white glove treatment. If they have a problem, they can appeal after the verdict. There's no doubt they will continue to do that until the day GW4 dies or the state decides to stop paying the attorneys.

ETA, since its unlikely GW4 will get the DP, the cost of appeals will not be paid by the state, right?

That is a good question:

If the death penalty is taken away and George's sentence has nothing to do with the death penalty, who would pay the attorneys for George's appeal? Does the State have to pay for an indigent defendant's appeal? And if the State does pay for an indigent defendant's appeal would it pay for just one appeal or continue to pay for multiple appeals?

When you lose an appeal you can then file again with, I think it's called, a "higher" court. Like you could file all the way up to the Ohio State Supreme Court, but there comes a point where you can't keep appealing. Where you have "exhausted" all of your appeals.

Sometimes the defendant uses different attorneys for this and not the original trial attorneys.

 

[Pru2U]

Here's a solution, though. Follow the rules and play the recording of the interview if GW4 agrees to take the stand and be subjected to cross-examination about his statements in the recording. Defense refuses to do that, though.

And THAT is why AC interrupted Nash’s opening statement to object.

Can’t have your cake and eat it too.

 

[ohioexpat63]

What's that old quote: Familiarity breeds contempt? At some point JW and G3 became very familiar with the Rs. They held it all. HMR had all rights to S in the state of OH. Intent with tattooed wedding bands meant nothing. His surname meant nothing. Unless the appropriate paperwork was done at the hospital, within so many hours of her birth, he meant nothing, in the eyes of the law. Possibly a paternity check, but zero time with the child. There was a new man and a wedding in the future and happy pictures on the FB page. SA is all they had and the potential for SA. JW began to focus on it, AW began to focus on it, what if TC had got B? We know what happened to TC. Bring CPS in, there's no designated pink and blue bedrooms. We have those here, complete with the appropriate bedding. Not enough bedrooms over there, period. Starts to call CPS. A friend gets wind... skids to the phone. Poof, new house. Plenty of space, and away from the grow as well. That didn't work. G3 peeved b/c CR1 owes him some money and he thinks he's used it toward that house. Did you see she told the other baby daddy on FB that her new husband would be raising K. They were moving after they married! This is not happening. They're not winning again.

Delete if not allowed, I've been drinking.

Cheers!! I agree

 

[Betty P]

George4 refuses to do that.

Oh well. The recording is not a factual statement, so it can't be submitted as such. It has to be subject to cross examination. GW4 is the only one who can do that.

 

[rsd1200]

That is a good question:

If the death penalty is taken away and George's sentence has nothing to do with the death penalty, who would pay the attorneys for George's appeal? Does the State have to pay for an indigent defendant's appeal? And if the State does pay for an indigent defendant's appeal would it pay for just one appeal or continue to pay for multiple appeals?

When you lose an appeal you can then file again with, I think it's called, a "higher" court. Like you could file all the way up to the Ohio State Supreme Court, but there comes a point where you can't keep appealing. Where you have "exhausted" all of your appeals.

Sometimes the defendant uses different attorneys for this and not the original trial attorneys.

He will then become a visitor to the law library. He can file all those things on his own if he has no funds for an attorney. There will be long termers in there who might help him. Then, maybe someone on the outside will want to put money on his books b/c they like a captive boyfriend, and send him money for stamps. Ohhh, there's ways when you have LIFE staring at you. Nothing but time.

 

[rsd1200]

The state could have played GW's interview if they wanted to. They played BW and AW's. BW did not testify. The state chose not to play GW's interview.

Any theories as to why?

 

[rsd1200]

Oh well. The recording is not a factual statement, so it can't be submitted as such. It has to be subject to cross examination. GW4 is the only one who can do that.

So, it only becomes factual, if G4 can be cross examined, or is it not factual at all. If it's the latter then we can't take stock in any of them.
Edit: I didn't hear of G3 testifying and he has an upcoming trial.
Billy Wagner's Interrogation Tape

 

[Betty P]

So, it only becomes factual, if G4 can be cross examined, or is it not factual at all. If it's the latter then we can't take stock in any of them.
Edit: I didn't hear of G3 testifying and he has an upcoming trial.
Billy Wagner's Interrogation Tape

It's evidence. The same rules apply to a recording where GW4 isn't under oath to any other item of evidence. When its the defendant telling a story, the state has to be allowed to cross examine, just as the defense is allowed to cross examine statements by witnesses.

I'm guessing, since defense wants to use it, GW4 is just saying "I know nothing, I see nothing", etc.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

And THAT is why AC interrupted Nash’s opening statement to object.

Can’t have your cake and eat it too.

AC is doing her job, the 4 Wagner’s are overbearing thugs that committed the largest Massacre in Ohio History, and you really think that George Washington Wagner 4 is getting done dirty by AC, REALLY, GW4 is as guilty as Jake and his daddy is, JMO

 

[Pru2U]

AC is doing her job, the 4 Wagner’s are overbearing thugs that committed the largest Massacre in Ohio History, and you really think that George Washington Wagner 4 is getting done dirty by AC, REALLY, GW4 is as guilty as Jake and his daddy is, JMO

No, I don’t think that at all Johnny B. I think AC is doing a fine job!

 

[Pru2U]

It's evidence. The same rules apply to a recording where GW4 isn't under oath to any other item of evidence. When its the defendant telling a story, the state has to be allowed to cross examine, just as the defense is allowed to cross examine statements by witnesses.

I'm guessing, since defense wants to use it, GW4 is just saying "I know nothing, I see nothing", etc.

It is evidence but evidence that was legally excluded from the trial during pre-trial arguments. Right?

 

[A Truth Seeker]

Yes, that was another trick the defense pulled. Making demands that required a lot of busy work, tying up the prosecutor's office beyond reason. Defense just sat around whining and finding more busy work, more unreasonable demands. That's how they dragged out the pre-trial phase for nearly 4 years.

He's guilty. He deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison. JMO

It is evidence but evidence that was legally excluded from the trial during pre-trial arguments. Right?

the state can play the recording of GW if they want to do so. They're choosing not to introduce it because they feel it would allow him to testify without taking the stand. AC said as much in court one day. They could call one of the people who interviewed GW an introduce it that way. State is choosing not to.

 

[rsd1200]

And THAT is why AC interrupted Nash’s opening statement to object.

Can’t have your cake and eat it too.

I thought they were sworn in om the border. That's the part of GWs interrogation, that the defense was speaking of in opening. He's not a juvenile. There's something in there that the Prosecution does not want us to hear. They already said everyone who is talking to a LEO is to expect to be recorded.

 

[Skully67]

I want the defense team to provide GW4 the best defense they can come up with. Then, there is little that can be appealed.

 

[Pru2U]

I want the defense team to provide GW4 the best defense they can come up with. Then, there is little that can be appealed.

I agree.

 

[Pru2U]

I thought they were sworn in om the border. That's the part of GWs interrogation, that the defense was speaking of in opening. He's not a juvenile. There's something in there that the Prosecution does not want us to hear. They already said everyone who is talking to a LEO is to expect to be recorded.

They were read Miranda rights, they were not under oath. At least that’s how AW’s went.

I found what’s in there the defense doesn’t want heard:

Scheiderer also testified that Wagner's own words in his interviews with law enforcement also implicated him in the conspiracy.

"The fact that he states there were no child custody issues, there was no dispute between the Wagner and the Rhodens, which all of our evidence points that there was ongoing issues between the families. He admits that he owns and lived on the property at 260 Peterson Road where we found the shell casings. The night of the murders, the defendant, as well as the rest of the family, admit they were all there that night."

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[Pru2U]

the state can play the recording of GW if they want to do so. They're choosing not to introduce it because they feel it would allow him to testify without taking the stand. AC said as much in court one day. They could call one of the people who interviewed GW an introduce it that way. State is choosing not to.

The end result is the same. GW’s interview has not been and will not be entered into evidence. Period. Therefore, the objection AC made was valid because Nash was making claims about something in his OS he had no way of proving.

<modsnip: Off topic.>