OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[RAISINISBACK]

yes

No the GREEN GLOCK randa said George bought was NOT found in the cement buckets. A BLACK Glock was found in the cement buckets. Not the same gun. Different color.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Very nice of you, thanks. You have me very curious about this because it puts George's actual Glock gun casings at his home and at the scenes of the crimes and this shows much stronger evidence against George personally, rather than it being just from Jake's gun. Also, the stuff you said about George's behavior over his missing Glock is very interesting.

Wow. Did anyone listen to Randa H's testimony besides me? Parker specifically asked Randa "What color was the Glock that George bought when you and Chris went with him to buy it? Her answer :GREEN

The Glock found in the buckets and test fired to match shells from peterson rd :BLACK

What is so hard to understand that it was two different guns? ONE GREEN IN COLOR AND THE OTHER BLACK IN COLOR.

Randa H's testimony is out there for anyone who would like to listen to it again.

JMO

 

[ColMustard]

I do recall the judge talking about 9am.

The judge went on talking after that. But now the feed cuts him off mid sentence and goes to the colored bars. The original yesterday kept streaming. As I said i will concede you are correct for now. We will find out Monday anyway. As I also said in my original post I have never seen a judge do that after the prosecution rests. So i guess i wait and see Monday.

JMO

The feed yesterday did the same thing. Everything the world sees in video from that courtroom comes from the same feed from the same camera..

If the judge entertained dropping the charges, every news outlet involved would be making headlines out of it.

Monday, they are working with exhibits, to enter into evidence and most likely hear objections from the defense.

Yes, I'm content to see if there's a live feed on Monday, if not I'll watch the news.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

sure. give me some time. I know it is 3 different testimonies/pieces of evidence. The gun expert saying the one .40 shell casing was fired from a glock. Then one of Agent Schiederers earlier testimonites with the first search at peterson road saying they found a .40 shell casing in that property that matched. This is when they are showing the jury how the investigation lead them to the Wagners. Then finally the third testimony was the gun expert after they found the guns in bucket of cement and took the firing pin out of that glock and fired it. It was a match. bear with me and I will try to find all three.

Randa H's testimony was on October 14. Might help to listen to the questioning by the defense when Parker asked her what color the Glock George owned was. If you are interested and have time that is.

JMO

 

[ColMustard]

double post deleted

 

[pepper 34]

Possibly you mean this section

Section 2921.22 | Failure to report a crime or knowledge of a death or burn injury.

(G) Divisions (A) and (D) of this section do not require disclosure of information, when any of the following applies

(2) The information would tend to incriminate a member of the actor's immediate family

I don't take away from the statements above that a person can actually participate in covering up a family member's crime and not be held accountable. I think the statements above mean; if a family member knows something about a family member's crime, they don't have to disclose what they know to the authorities. Those are 2 very different things.

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

Randa H's testimony was on October 14. Might help to listen to the questioning by the defense when Parker asked her what color the Glock George owned was. If you are interested and have time that is.

JMO

ok. I did not catch that part of her testimony as I know I was pre-empted when she was originally testifying. However, I did just now go and re-listen to it. She opted out of video but not audio. at about 1:51 minutes into the following video is where I think you are referring to. However, to be clear, her testimony was Chris Newcombe when talking to Agent Shiederer characterized the gun as green. I think that is important to note. It is not Randa stating she saw the gun george purchased. It is Randa saying she heard Chris Newcombe characterize the glock as green in color to Agent Schiderer. Right now we do not know the time frame of the conversations but it seems logical this was before the wagners were arrested. I got the sense listening to Chris Newcombe that he was trying to assist the Wagners any way he could prior to Jake pleading guilty.

what I also want to point out is this MSM article stating what guns were not recovered:

DAY 20: Several guns introduced in Wagner trial but none are the murder weapons

WAVERLY, Ohio — Dozens of guns were introduced on the twentieth day of George Wagner’s trial in Pike County, but none of them had anything to do with the killing of eight members of the…

sciotovalleyguardian.com

 

[justtrish]

I was listening again to some of the testimony from yesterday and it really just made me feel sad/angry/something I can't explain as I thought specifically about Chris Sr and how he was taken out. I think this often gets maybe glossed over because 2 women were killed laying in bed beside their babies and that is shocking.

When they were going back over that gunshot on the porch and where blood was and then the stomach wound and the chest.. he was likely so very aware of what was happening to him and who was doing it. I started to think about if he knew Gary was dead. Was Gary dead already in the chair? Did he see that, was he running for the house because he knew something was off? Was he just chatting away with Billy when a bullet destroyed his arm? Was that the moment he knew something was off or did he know something was wrong before that? Just listening to them talk about the door, the wood splinters, the damage done, where bullets were and all of it just really reminded me that they planned THIS. Not that shooting people while they are sleeping makes what they did better, but there were at least some time for Chris Sr to be fully aware of what was happening and that is just.. I guess I could visualize it after listening to yesterdays testimony. Anyone else?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Here is the first testimony from the gun expert....36 minutes into the video below.

Here is Agent Schiederer's testimony regarding the May 10th search of peterson road. He talks about the other searches but the May 10th search finds shell casings on the peterson road property. about 10 minutes into this video

Here is the Gun expert after the buckets of cement with the guns....the first 12 minutes of this video is where he matches it

This Glock was owned by George. We have testimony from Chris Newcombe that he purchased this glock. It was used at scenes #1 and Scenes #4. George never reported this gun missing. It was found in the buckets of cement anchoring a goose box that george helped build. To me this speaks volumes to George's culpability in these murders.

Randa H's testimony. October 14. Parker asked her what color the Glock was that George bought when she and Chris was present. Her answer GREEN. Chris never said the Glock in the bucket belonged to george. That is because thee Glock in the bucket was not the same Glock that george bought when Chris was present.

So no proof the Glock in the bucket belonged to George.

Randa H testimony begins 54:34.
Testimony about Glock being green in color begins 1:53: 05

JMO

Watch Live: Pike County Massacre Trial - OH v. George Wagner IV Day 23

George Wagner, IV is standing trial for the April 2016 murders of eight members of the Rhoden and Gilley families. Wagner IV faces 22 counts including eight ...

www.youtube.com

 

[RAISINISBACK]

DBM

 

[justtrish]

Off topic, but I want to wish any Veterans here on this board a Happy Veteran's Day. I'll share this quote I saw.

I didn't carry the weight, walk in the boots or even see the things that they saw.

I never had to.

and that is exactly the point.
Thank you.

JmStorm

 

[ColMustard]

I was listening again to some of the testimony from yesterday and it really just made me feel sad/angry/something I can't explain as I thought specifically about Chris Sr and how he was taken out. I think this often gets maybe glossed over because 2 women were killed laying in bed beside their babies and that is shocking.

When they were going back over that gunshot on the porch and where blood was and then the stomach wound and the chest.. he was likely so very aware of what was happening to him and who was doing it. I started to think about if he knew Gary was dead. Was Gary dead already in the chair? Did he see that, was he running for the house because he knew something was off? Was he just chatting away with Billy when a bullet destroyed his arm? Was that the moment he knew something was off or did he know something was wrong before that? Just listening to them talk about the door, the wood splinters, the damage done, where bullets were and all of it just really reminded me that they planned THIS. Not that shooting people while they are sleeping makes what they did better, but there were at least some time for Chris Sr to be fully aware of what was happening and that is just.. I guess I could visualize it after listening to yesterdays testimony. Anyone else?

Absolutely. A blitz of bullets, shrapnel, wood splinters, a hail of gunfire.

The size of those bullet holes in the wall, if those bullets hit anyone they were a lot larger than their original size, at least the ones that didn't turn completely into shrapnel. I think that's why Chris's arm took so much damage. Edit: I would also believe his arm could've been hit more than once, it was just impossible to recognize.

Some of those holes look larger than 50 caliber or 12gauge, and the ones displayed in court did too, defense ammo mushrooms a lot.

I can easily see both Chris and Gary being completely aware of what was happening to them. They were faced with withering fire.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

ok. I did not catch that part of her testimony as I know I was pre-empted when she was originally testifying. However, I did just now go and re-listen to it. She opted out of video but not audio. at about 1:51 minutes into the following video is where I think you are referring to. However, to be clear, her testimony was Chris Newcombe when talking to Agent Shiederer characterized the gun as green. I think that is important to note. It is not Randa stating she saw the gun george purchased. It is Randa saying she heard Chris Newcombe characterize the glock as green in color to Agent Schiderer. Right now we do not know the time frame of the conversations but it seems logical this was before the wagners were arrested. I got the sense listening to Chris Newcombe that he was trying to assist the Wagners any way he could prior to Jake pleading guilty.

what I also want to point out is this MSM article stating what guns were not recovered:

DAY 20: Several guns introduced in Wagner trial but none are the murder weapons

WAVERLY, Ohio — Dozens of guns were introduced on the twentieth day of George Wagner’s trial in Pike County, but none of them had anything to do with the killing of eight members of the…

sciotovalleyguardian.com

So are we thinking that Chris N is colorblind? Or that he does not know anything about guns? Or that he would not know a green gun if he saw it? Just trying to clear up where you are going with this post. TIA

Just to add: The gun was advertised for sale on FB, where Chris saw it, and where it is very easy for BCI to go back and see the picture of the green Glock and confirm it was indeed green.

That is why it was never said in any testimony that the murder Glock belonged to George. Because BCI has already checked out the FB page where the original owner placed it for sale and most likely talked to that orginal owner about what color the gun was.

JMO

 

[Myland]

Jmo I just finished listening to defense expert witness and Nash asked about no right shoe print. The witness said they could have been very clean I guess as to why no right print. Combine that with wiretaps, George doesn’t come across as someone Jake could keep calm and watch what he is doing. Jake now could be calm and watch what he was doing. This may sound crazy but the shoes were bought specifically to throw le off. The shoes are 1/2 size diff. Who is to say Jake didn’t wear left shoe of each size? Or that Jake purposely put those prints there. I think purposely may be likely since it is not on porch. Jmo there is a big problem with those prints. They are not telling the true story and those prints are not telling Me that that shoe was on George’s foot. Jmo

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I missed that testimony. Bear with me as sometimes the job I do to support my family pre-empts listening to all testimony in this trial, so I might have missed that. But let me ask this.....Can George provide the current where abouts of the Glock he purchased with Chris Newcombe? Like can he say (through his attorneys) it was sold to a friend of this person. Or I still have it, it is currently located at this location.

No one ever testified to that. because BCI knows the Glock in the cement, the murder Glock, is black. No need to ask about the whereabouts of a green Glock since it has no bearing on the case nor was it used in the murders. No testimony about any other guns George may have owned either.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

DBM

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I've thought about that, too. It kind of reinforces the possibility that Jake did go down to Frankie's to stand watch during the shootings at Chris Sr's. The first murders in their killing spree, they were probably concerned that the Glock would make enough noise to alert Frankie.

It would explain some of the inconsistencies if Jake's story about how many times Chris Sr. was shot. Jake said he was shot 2 times by the Glock, autopsy said 9 times. GW4 was outside with the SKS, Billy inside with the Glock.

@Betty P

Go back and listen to the defense expert testify to having auditory problems during times of high stress and how you lose track of how many shots were fired.

JMO

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

So are we thinking that Chris N is colorblind? Or that he does not know anything about guns? Or that he would not know a green gun if he saw it? Just trying to clear up where you are going with this post. TIA

Hi Raisinisback,

After this post I will not post anything more about this. It seems I am upsetting you and that is not my intention.

It appears that when I went back and listened to Chris Newcombe's testimony again Chris Newcombe Alludes to the fact he might have helped George buy a second glock 40 caliber. Although I recommend listening to the whole thing, about 21 minutes into this video is that testimony:

I think this might be because he was now under oath whereas when he was talking to agent Schiderer he was not under oath and might have been trying to 'protect' the Wagners as at the time he might have honestly thought they were innocent.

Take care.

 

[Betty P]

@Betty P

Go back and listen to the defense expert testify to having auditory problems during times of high stress and how you lose track of how many shots were fired.

JMO

Yeah, I studied that in college and I've taken it into account, stuff people experience in combat, etc.

However, I believe that Jake, once he saw the evidence and read what was in the autopsy reports, would try to reconcile his memories with what actually happened. Most people would have said to the agents or attorneys interviewing him "I realize I only remember 2 or 3 shots, but the AR says it was more. How do I address this discrepancy on the witness stand?" But Jake doesn't even attempt to do that on the stand. He just reels it off like he probably did when lying to LE. The way he says it doesn't sound honest. For whatever reason, he's continuing to pretend there were only 2 shots fired.

JMO, the only explanation I can come up with is that he's deliberately lying because he wasn't there and doesn't want to admit he wasn't there. For some strange Wagner family dysfunctional dynamic, he's protecting GW4. The judge and jury just have to accept that and incorporate it into their decisions.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Hi Raisinisback,

After this post I will not post anything more about this. It seems I am upsetting you and that is not my intention.

It appears that when I went back and listened to Chris Newcombe's testimony again Chris Newcombe Alludes to the fact he might have helped George buy a second glock 40 caliber. Although I recommend listening to the whole thing, about 21 minutes into this video is that testimony:

I think this might be because he was now under oath whereas when he was talking to agent Schiderer he was not under oath and might have been trying to 'protect' the Wagners as at the time he might have honestly thought they were innocent.

Take care.

It's Raize, so feel free to call me that.

Don't worry, you are not upsetting me.

As I said the green Glock was advertised for sale on FB where Chris saw it and told George. Very easy for BCI to go back and see the ad and verfiy the Glock was green and talk to the person who sold it to George to verify it was green.

It was not in testimony, but common sense tells us that BCI would have checked out any other Glocks Chris said George bought. I,E. where Chris saw them for sale, who sold them to George while Chris was there and then BCI would have questioned the original owners. BCI would have also questioned Chris about how long ago george bought the gun and what he knew about what happened to the other Glock. The second Glock could have been bought after the murders.

There is no testimony that the murder Glock belonged to George. There is a reason for that. That is because no matter how many Glocks George bought in the past BCI cannot prove he bought the murder Glock.

JMO