OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[CIA Team Member]

The defense is calling Skid Montgomery & Vance Walls!? Whatever for?

Seems their witnesses are mitigation rather than alibi's, etc (which witnesses typically present as.) IMO

What is a corrections officer going to present for a defense? "He reads the bible all day," "He's a good boy..." "Eats all his vegetables."

JMO

 

[Dudly]

Same question I asked the other day.

Oops, I missed that somehow, sorry..

 

[Chelly]

Jmo I think the state put too much time into those shoes. To the point where a person is questioning now why just those two left prints in cr. When I start thinking about tthem being there leads me to wonder more why they are there instead of who’s they are. Jmo

It seems the biggest evidence tying GW4 to the murders is the shoe evidence and the testimony of two murderers who have plead guilty.

 

[Myland]

I'm curious, by the evidence presented so far...
Do you believe that GWIV was home that night?
Do you believe JW and AW outright lied about everything they testified to? Do you also believe GWIV had absolutely nothing to do with any preparation or subsequent cover-up of the crimes?

Jmo Jake stated Billy put him in charge of buying items. Billy got rid of truck. Jake got rid of weapons. Him and Billy put them in buckets. The only thing George did and this is IF he did was dig a hole according to Jake. If he did dig a hole they were working on barn. I can’t put George in preparation or cover up. I don’t know if George was there that night. But especially can’t put him there in preparation or coverup. Jmo

 

[Myland]

It seems the biggest evidence tying GW4 to the murders is the shoe evidence and the testimony of two murders who have plead guilty.

Jmo I can’t in my mind get George in those shoes. I should say that shoe since that is all they presented was one shoe in size 11.

 

[Chelly]

Jmo I can’t in my mind get George in those shoes.

There is a good chance the jury can't put George in those shoes as well.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

My question is" How could BJM not see the bullet holes and blood splatter on the door and front of trailer? She had to have known before she ever opened that door that something bad had happened.

And when she saw all that blood on the floor in the living room why did she go back to the bedroom? Why didn't she just back out like her brother JM did? Why did she allow her friends who were with her go back into the bedroom? Or even go into the house? Why did she call Lenny who also went back into the bedroom? Who else tramped through that crime scene that we don't know about before LE got there? What evidence was destroyed by everyone and their brother traipsing through that crime scene?

JMO

 

[Chelly]

Jmo Jake stated Billy put him in charge of buying items. Billy got rid of truck. Jake got rid of weapons. Him and Billy put them in buckets. The only thing George did and this is IF he did was dig a hole according to Jake. If he did dig a hole they were working on barn. I can’t put George in preparation or cover up. I don’t know if George was there that night. But especially can’t put him there in preparation or coverup. Jmo

Lots of solid evidence against JW and AW. But, In the minds of the jury, it is possible the only thing GW4 is guilty of is not reporting these murders to LE. Does that make him guilty of conspiracy?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

One More Question Sleuthers?
Has anyone of you heard GW4 say on all those recordings that we have listened to that he has admitted to of ( I’m Not Guilty, Never Did Anything)
JMO

 

[Myland]

And when she saw all that blood on the floor in the living room why did she go back to the bedroom? Why didn't she just back out like her brother JM did? Why did she allow her friends who were with her go back into the bedroom? Or even go into the house? Why did she call Lenny who also went back into the bedroom? Who else tramped through that crime scene that we don't know about before LE got there? What evidence was destroyed by everyone and their brother traipsing through that crime scene?

JMO

Jmo I don’t think the Manley’s did anything purposely at all, but that scene was contaminated for sure. Imagine walking into that, your mind would be racing.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

As a reminder please don't justify the killing of these victims and remember that there were babies at the crime scenes too. The victims have families that are seeking justice. May justice be served!!!

Timeline: A full history of the Pike County murders

The autopsy showed all eight victims were shot with the gun barrel touching their skin or just centimeters away.

The number of gunshot wounds per victims, according to the reports:

• Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (age 40): Nine (face, torso, extremities).
• Dana Rhoden (age 37): Five (head).
• Hannah Gilley (age 20): Five (head)
• Christopher Rhoden, Jr. (age 16): Four (head).
• Clarence “Frankie” Rhoden (age 20): Three (head). Two were “contact wounds” as indicated by soot from the gun on his skull.
• Gary Rhoden (age 37): Three “contact” wounds (head).
• Hanna Rhoden (19): Two (head).
• Kenneth Rhoden (age 44): One (right eye).

As a reminder please don't justify the killing of these victims

Who is justifying the killings of 8 innocent victims?

On the other hand, please don't justify putting a man who may be innocent in prison for life or give him the death penalty just because his family is guilty.

That is not how our court systems are supposed to work. Just because his brother is a serial killer does not mean he was even there or that he could have stopped his brother.

As a reminder you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. We don't have vigilante justice in this country.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

She also recounted a moment when, around one month after the Rhoden family were found murdered, Staley reached out to George and the pair, along with her husband, went fishing.

"He wasn't the same George that I knew," she said.

The George Wagner IV she grew up with had been bubbly, eager to laugh and eager to make others laugh, but the George who went fishing that day just seemed sad, hurt, lost and dead inside, she said. At some point during the outing, she mentioned the murders — specifically Frankie — and that she couldn't believe what had happened.

"I was pretty much told to shut the eff up," she said.

Pike County murder trial: Jury hears from George Wagner IV's ex-wife as fourth week of testimony begins

Doesn't prove guilt but is an interesting factor.

Doesn't prove guilt but is an interesting factor.

So is the fact that he appeared sad and hurt. Maybe because he was grieving for a woman he had known since she was 13?

JMO

 

[Myland]

Lots of solid evidence against JW and AW. But, In the minds of the jury, it is possible the only thing GW4 is guilty of is not reporting these murders to LE. Does that make him guilty of conspiracy?

Jmo what evidence was George knew the murders were about to happen? I havent seen any. What evidence was presented that George knew shorty after that his family was responsible? I haven’t heard any. The Mt interview was a year later. I know George had heard all the rumors about his family but did he think for sure they did it? Was he in denial? At what point did George realize it was Jake? For conspiracy don’t you have to act in something? Conspire with someone? When did he conspire? Jmo I have so many questions after the little bit that was televised in this trial. He was talking with family about getting lawyers to help with defense, is everyone that helps a family member get a lawyer for a defense guilty of conspiring to cover up a crime?

 

[Chelly]

One More Question Sleuthers?
Has anyone of you heard GW4 say on all those recordings that we have listened to that he has admitted to of ( I’m Not Guilty, Never Did Anything)
JMO

In the recordings I heard GW4 making accusations about nearly everyone else, but didn't hear him refer to his own possible guilt.

 

[Chelly]

Jmo what evidence was George knew the murders were about to happen? I havent seen any. What evidence was presented that George knew shorty after that his family was responsible? I haven’t heard any. The Mt interview was a year later. I know George had heard all the rumors about his family but did he think for sure they did it? Was he in denial? At what point did George realize it was Jake? For conspiracy don’t you have to act in something? Conspire with someone? When did he conspire? Jmo I have so many questions after the little bit that was televised in this trial. He was talking with family about getting lawyers to help with defense, is everyone that helps a family member get a lawyer for a defense guilty of conspiring to cover up a crime?

I think GW4's family thought George was too dumb to take part in any planning, plotting and coverup. All I learned about George in those tapes is he yells loud and a lot.

 

[Pru2U]

It seems the biggest evidence tying GW4 to the murders is the shoe evidence and the testimony of two murders who have plead guilty

More big evidence: The state has shown an established pattern of family conspiracy to obtain and retain custody of the two minors. George signed the forged custody papers bypassing the natural mother, giving Angela full custody in event of his death; dated the exact same date as Jake signed the forged custody paper bypassing the natural mother and giving Angela custody in event of his death. Both natural mothers were living on the date those papers were signed. That forged paperwork is indeed solid evidence pointing out George was involved in that conspiracy. On Wednesday, we heard in George’s own words how that particular conspiracy was ongoing as the whole family was “laying low” until June 7 in order to claim a defense of child abandonment by Tabi.

This is solid evidence the whole family was all in on whatever it took to obtain and retain custody of those babies. Isn’t that the definition of conspiracy?

 

[rsd1200]

Yup. I was thinking that too.

But I have to agree with Betty, if George and Billy were innocent they wouldn't chance a trial that might put them away for life, they would have insisted to the prosecution they were innocent and made plea deals to work with them. Most defendants take pleas. Unfortunately, many innocent people take guilty pleas to avoid all the extra charges, trial expenses, possibility of guilty verdicts with prison sentences etc....

[/QUOTE]

Most do, especially w/o the necessary income and using a public defender. However, some don't. Accused of murdering eight people though? Idk, I'd be hard pressed to have that hanging around my neck for the rest of my life if I had no part in it. What a jam that would be.

 

[rsd1200]

Are you suggesting that (my quotation marks): “He obviously must be guilty because otherwise (if he were innocent) he would accept a plea deal for LWOP”?

Jmo

No.

 

[rsd1200]

Jmo I can’t in my mind get George in those shoes. I should say that shoe since that is all they presented was one shoe in size 11.

The king of shoe experts can't put him in those shoes either. Only two shoe prints were found. Each a different size.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Agree. I don't think jury has enough evidence to, unanimously, beyond reasonable doubt, convict.
ETA: Having said that, I believe GW4 is guilty. However, I think the jury will have reasonable doubt.

Canepa may have had a chance if she had left out all that evidence against Angie and jake and just concentrated on George alone. But she threw so many red herrings and dead ends in her case that she likely confused the jury. A confused jury is a jury that does not know what to believe. When confronted with not knowing what to believe the jury will err on the side of the defendant, because this is a DP trial. Who among us would send a man to his death if we are confused about whether he is guilty or not?

One of the biggest blunders Canepa made was building that "false bottom" a week after Jakes testimony and in the middle of the trial, then displaying it to the jury for the defense to rip apart. It made her seem desperate to prove her case. They had Jake's proffer, why didn't they build that a year ago and been ready to prove it out by piling 12 bales of hay on it with the agents under it and taking photos and film of that? The defense shredded that because there was no hay on it. People in that area seem to be farmers or at least know some about hauling hay. And those are the very people seated on that jury. How many of those jurors are now thinking there is no way that OSB board held up 480 or more lbs of hay without bowing down to the point it would have been impossible for a big guy like George to crawl under.

Another big mistake was that burned DVR. She brought it in, showed the jury a new one just like it, had the BCI agent to publish it to the jury like it was a very important key piece of evidence, then dropped it like a hot rock. The jury has to be confused about why she did not follow through and tell them how it connected to the murders. She misled the jury. What happens when you mislead the jury on one piece of evidence you introduce? It sows distrust of all the evidence. It makes them think you are misleading them on everything, right down to the defendants guilt.

From what I understand by being on here with people from the area, there is already a heavy distrust of LE and DA's and Judges and courts in general. The people on that jury are from that area. So if they came into this with a distrust of DA's her misleading them just makes that distrust worse.

Will they come back with a guilty verdict? I don't know. I know if I was on that jury I would have too much doubt in the states case to convict, especially in view of this being a DP case.

My own opinion is maybe a hung jury.

JMO