OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[Skully67]

Hi RAISINISBACK,

I hear what your saying and I am nervous George will be found not guilty when I know he is.

However, to me the shell casings at the house on peterson road matching the shell casings found at the crime scene match George's glock. This to me is huge.

As a law abiding, responsible gun owner ( & property owner), this is huge. So an item that George owns that is worth approximately $500-600 bucks turns up missing and George is not concerned. I know I would be. But not only that, this item is a firearm and George is not concerned it is missing ever. Especially not after the murder of 8 people in the middle of the night in his county. If 8 people were murdered in the middle of the night in my county and someone living in my household was in anyway connected, and a gun I owned is missing, I would be extremely concerned. But George does not ever report this gun missing after the murders. Keep in mind a Glock .40 is a nice gun to have in Alaskan Bear country.

But it is at the Montana border he can no longer plead ignorance. your vehicle is held up at the border for you and 3 other members of your family to be interviewed by a State law enforcement agency 1600+ miles away investigating those 8 murders. If you are 100% innocent and know nothing of these crimes but are missing a firearm what actions would you take? If you had limited involvment in assisting your family but did not know they were going to murder 8 people what actions would you take? But if you are actively involved in the planning, you were there that night either as a look out or in the actual killings, and/or you actively helped cover up the crimes what actions would someone like that take after the Montana interviews. George purchasing the bug detector, the murder truck, sitting in the vehicle when the murder shoes are purchased, helping buid the "goose box" with the cement buckets that later have the guns found in them.

After the Montana interviews would not an innocent person get an attorney and with the assistance of the attorney let Law enforcement know #1 I am missing a gun that I own. #2 I was with my family when we purchased a truck but I now no longer know the whereabouts of said truck #3 I noticed a purchase on my credit card for a bug detector but I did not know the significance of it at that time. #4 After the murders I helped build a "goose box" with my family(that are now suspects) and we anchored said goose box with buckets of cement.

George does none of these things. His actions seem to be consistent with someone who was actively involved in the murders of 8 people. Then we have the testimony of Jake and Agnela. Both say he was involved. And now we have the wire tap evidence.

But most importantly in all this, If I was the guardian of a small child and I even began to suspect that someone I was living with (family or not) was involved in the murder of anyone what actions would I take. Would I fear for the safety of that small child and my own safety? Would I get out of that living arrangemen? Tabbi and Beth feared for their Life and knew to get out?

Definitely the shell casings at Peterson road matching shell casings at the crime scene, matching George's Glock speaks volumes to me.

Just asking you to consider the above information.

Was the glock found in the cement buckets?

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

Was the glock found in the cement buckets?

yes

 

[Cool Cats]

Yeah, i hear u, and ur probly right:/ But what if? Could explain the cushy deal for AW.

If the prosecution was/is unhappy with their testimonies, or can prove they lied thru their teeth, at what point would we find out?

I wish I could answer your questions but I assume the plea deals are not over yet because Billy might have a trial and Angela and Jake would have to testify in his trial to complete their plea deals. Now if Billy takes a plea deal and so no need to testify in his trial, then I assume it would be shortly after that that Billy and Angela and Jake would get sentenced and we'd find out if they kept the DP off the table.

But then there is the confusing matter of George. Do Angela and Jake have to testify in Billy's trial before we find out if the DP is off the table for George? Or because they testified already in George's trial is that enough for the prosecution to decide to take the DP off the table for him if he is found guilty?

Then Deering could just schedule a regular sentencing hearing for George at which time we would get to hear victim impact statements and George would be sentenced. It's complicated because we are not 100% sure if we have to get through Billy before we can know if the DP is off the table for George, or if Angela and Jake testifying in George's trial truthfully was enough to get the DP off for George.

I think Angela and Jake filled their plea agreement in George's trial but we won't know these DP answers until
his trial ends, or I don't know, maybe we will find out before a verdict?

It is so complicated that it is impossible to know. This is an incredibly unique situation. Unusual.

I assume the family went along with Angela's plea deal. The prosecution talked to the families about the plea deals for her and Jake. Maybe her lawyers said she would testify if she got the 30 year deal and they really needed her testimony to make sure they convict Billy and George.

She has good lawyers who got her that plea deal. It spared the family a trial, it removed any risk of Angela going to trial and being found not guilty, it spared the family another trial. She gets no early release and serves a full 30 which isn't long enough but is a long time in her life span considering she will be close to 80 years old before she is out.

I wish I had the answers.

 

[justtrish]

@Chris_p_bacon Not only all of what you wrote about the glock, but less than 1 week after the murders, and on the day of Gary Rhoden's viewing (maybe it was the funeral) that we know the 3 Wagner men attented, George bought a new Beretta. I believe the Beretta that was destroyed was his dads gun.

I'll add on to what you said about a missing gun. This was a house with 2 toddlers in it at this point and there would be 3 guns missing that he would just not know anything about. I'd love to know where they stored all their weapons and how often they were out or gone through to ensure they were all there. I'd think at the very least he might have noticed about the same time he went to buy a new gun, if he was putting that gun where the others are stored.

 

[justtrish]

I wish I could answer your questions but I assume the plea deals are not over yet because Billy might have a trial and Angela and Jake would have to testify in his trial to complete their plea deals. Now if Billy takes a plea deal and so no need to testify in his trial, then I assume it would be shortly after that that Billy and Angela and Jake would get sentenced and we'd find out if they kept the DP off the table.

But then there is the confusing matter of George. Do Angela and Jake have to testify in Billy's trial before we find out if the DP is off the table for George? Or because they testified already in George's trial is that enough for the prosecution to decide to take the DP off the table for him if he is found guilty?

Then Deering could just schedule a regular sentencing hearing for George at which time we would get to hear victim impact statements and George would be sentenced. It's complicated because we are not 100% sure if we have to get through Billy before we can know if the DP is off the table for George, or if Angela and Jake testifying in George's trial truthfully was enough to get the DP off for George.

I think Angela and Jake filled their plea agreement in George's trial but we won't know these DP answers until
his trial ends, or I don't know, maybe we will find out before a verdict?

It is so complicated that it is impossible to know. This is an incredibly unique situation. Unusual.

I assume the family went along with Angela's plea deal. The prosecution talked to the families about the plea deals for her and Jake. Maybe her lawyers said she would testify if she got the 30 year deal and they really needed her testimony to make sure they convict Billy and George.

She has good lawyers who got her that plea deal. It spared the family a trial, it removed any risk of Angela going to trial and being found not guilty, it spared the family another trial. She gets no early release and serves a full 30 which isn't long enough but is a long time in her life span considering she will be close to 80 years old before she is out.

I wish I had the answers.

I think the 2 deals also prevent any appeals, so no more going to court for any of the victims families in at least 2 of these cases.

I also think while they didn't need Angela's testimony for a conviction, it sure did help with understanding the motive. I wonder if jurors would struggle to understand WHY? Why did 8 people need to die. It sounds ridiculous on the surface that people planned and carried out such horrific crimes in the name of child custody. We hear Angela in her own words talking about all the nonsense she convinced the boys of in order to get the kids. I think then they hear the recordings and it just brings it all home that this woman did control and manipulate these men to get what she wanted.

 

[Cool Cats]

when you are lying nothing makes sense

Right, and that is what we all want to know. Was his testimony truthful enough to get the DP off the table?
I don't think he was 100% truthful but I think it was truthful enough to help convict George and if George is convicted that will make the prosecution pretty darn happy with Jake's testimony.

He places George at the crime scenes and details his involvement to a degree that if the jury believes it, will get him a guilty verdict.

It's my opinion that all the jury has to believe is that George went to the murder scenes that night, simple as that, and he will be found guilty of murder. Angela and Jake both place him at the murder scenes. Well Angela says he wore the shoes she bought for him and left with them, and Jake places George in detail at the crime scenes and explains George helping to get and modify the murder truck and burying murder evidence under their barn etc....

Jake led them to the murder guns and murder truck. I think he and Angela fulfilled their plea agreement testifying in George's trial even though I don't think it goes to him being 100% truthful, but I think it was enough.

Especially if George is found guilty of murder because the jury believes Jake when he places George at the crime scenes. And Angela gives some back up to that.

It's my opinion that everything hinges on the jury believing George was at the crime scenes, otherwise, he could end up with Angie's deal. I believe Angie would not have gotten her 30 year deal if she had been at the crime scenes. Angie and Jake place Angie at home and the prosecution seems to find his credible.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I don’t see Angela testify against her first born child because if GW4 was innocent why not hav him on the outside helping support their needs while their behind bars, JMO

 

[Niner]

snipped by me...

Then Deering could just schedule a regular sentencing hearing for George at which time we would get to hear victim impact statements and George would be sentenced. It's complicated because we are not 100% sure if we have to get through Billy before we can know if the DP is off the table for George, or if Angela and Jake testifying in George's trial truthfully was enough to get the DP off for George.

No - that is incorrect - the DP is NOT off the table for George - even IF Jake & Angela testified truthfully. He had a plea deal - but did not take it - DP is still on the table.

per my notes that I post every day of the trial:

Per Jake’s plea agreement, DP is off the table only for Jake if his testimony is truthful. But George still faces the DP as he did not take a deal.

 

[Myland]

Why would GWIV be so upset about BCI following him if he was totally innocent? Why wouldn’t he just think they’re wasting their time? Why would he mention getting ratted out if innocent why wouldn’t he say he would get framed instead of ratted out?
TheDefense saying he went along to protect JW, puts him at the scene of the murders. Then they say hew wasn’t there and knew nothing about it. Which is it?

Jmo if I was innocent and was being followed by Bci nonstop I would definitely be upset about it. I would feel like they would try to twist my every word and action. Jmo I believe Jakes first proffer stated the going to protect. So defense repeating Jake’s words. George stated he could never get away with anything because Jake always ratted him out. Just like the Stanley girl stated. Jmo

 

[Cool Cats]

I think the 2 deals also prevent any appeals, so no more going to court for any of the victims families in at least 2 of these cases.

I also think while they didn't need Angela's testimony for a conviction, it sure did help with understanding the motive. I wonder if jurors would struggle to understand WHY? Why did 8 people need to die. It sounds ridiculous on the surface that people planned and carried out such horrific crimes in the name of child custody. We hear Angela in her own words talking about all the nonsense she convinced the boys of in order to get the kids. I think then they hear the recordings and it just brings it all home that this woman did control and manipulate these men to get what she wanted.

Thanks for the reminder about the appeals. I forgot that the plea deals spare the families of Angela and Jake going through an appeals process. I believe you are correct, they can't appeal. Now if George is found guilty he can definitely appeal but I don't think the State would pay for it and he would have to get Fred to pay or file appeals himself, can you even get free legal aid in prison for appeals?

Maybe his current lawyers would appeal pro bono. Who knows? But I do see him doing appeals and his attorneys saying George will appeal.

 

[Myland]

I don’t see Angela testify against her first born child because if GW4 was innocent why not hav him on the outside helping support their needs while their behind bars, JMO

Since she wants out of prison one day that was her only option jmo

 

[justtrish]

Thanks for the reminder about the appeals. I forgot that the plea deals spare the families of Angela and Jake going through an appeals process. I believe you are correct, they can't appeal. Now if George is found guilty he can definitely appeal but I don't think the State would pay for it and he would have to get Fred to pay or file appeals himself, can you even get free legal aid in prison for appeals?

Maybe his current lawyers would appeal pro bono. Who knows? But I do see him doing appeals and his attorneys saying George will appeal.

That is a good question. I know DP sentences get automatic appeals and I think that is done with public defenders unless someone has their own. I think they automatically get the ability to appeal. As for LWOP, I am not sure if those lawyers for appeals are public defenders if you can't afford one. Hopefully someone knows this.

 

[Cool Cats]

No - that is incorrect - the DP is NOT off the table for George - even IF Jake & Angela testified truthfully. He had a plea deal - but did not take it - DP is still on the table.

per my notes that I post every day of the trial:

Per Jake’s plea agreement, DP is off the table only for Jake if his testimony is truthful. But George still faces the DP as he did not take a deal.

I don't agree. The plea deal for Jake was that if he admits guilt and testifies in any family member's trials, that the death penalty is off the table for him and his whole family.

It doesn't make sense to testify against family members so you can help put them to death. Jake got the death penalty off the table for his whole family.

********"**********"*"""""""""***************************************************************"""""***************

Jake Wagner pleaded guilty to the murders. In exchange for his testimony, the death penalty would be dropped against all four Wagners. Angela Wagner has also pleaded guilty. As part of Jake's plea, the prosecution agreed to take away the death penalty in all four cases.

Jake Wagner pleads guilty in Pike County massacre

Edward “Jake” Wagner is now pleading guilty to eight counts of aggravated murder and other charges.

www.fox19.com

The State is also agreeing to dismiss the death penalty specifications against the other family members and Jake will testify against his mom, dad and brother at their trials.

Edward “Jake” Wagner accepted the plea deal. In exchange for removal of the death penalty in all four cases.

‘Nobody expected this:’ Why a legal expert is shocked by Jake Wagner’s plea deal

FOX19’s legal analyst says he’s never seen anything like it.

www.fox19.com

It says right in Billy's Motion that Jake's plea deal drops the death penalty for the family members he testifies against:

07/16/2021 51. DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III

As part of the defendant's agreement between the State and Co-defendant Jacob Wagner, Jacob Wagner agreed to testify at the trials of George Wagner IV, Angela Wagner, and George Wagner III. In return, the State agreed to dismiss the "death penalty" specifications in return for Jacob Wagner and each of the Co-defendants that he agreed to testify against.

https://cpcourt.pikecounty.oh.gov/eservices/searchresults.page?x=SkxexgdEeb*8aXr7Yhaj6UtaLHRtKhS8nBULo14TpCIyAaklAKWNILJcWxr4CWNctEyXvsvEtaSJ0beG-L8Omg

 

[Chelly]

Death penalty dropped for all four Wagners (5th paragraph in Columbus Dispatch story)

Jake Wagner, 29, pleaded guilty to all 23 charges against him on April 22, 2021, the fifth anniversary of the homicides. In exchange for his confession and plea, Jake Wagner will spend the rest of his life in prison and prosecutors agreed to drop the death penalty option for all four Wagners.

Rhoden case: New details emerge as judge rules George Wagner IV to stand trial in Pike County

Judge Randy Deering on Monday denied a request to change the venue for the upcoming aggravated murder trial of 30-year-old George Wagner IV.

www.dispatch.com

 

[Betty P]

Hi RAISINISBACK,

I hear what your saying and I am nervous George will be found not guilty when I know he is.

However, to me the shell casings at the house on peterson road matching the shell casings found at the crime scene match George's glock. This to me is huge.

As a law abiding, responsible gun owner ( & property owner), this is huge. So an item that George owns that is worth approximately $500-600 bucks turns up missing and George is not concerned. I know I would be. But not only that, this item is a firearm and George is not concerned it is missing ever. Especially not after the murder of 8 people in the middle of the night in his county. If 8 people were murdered in the middle of the night in my county and someone living in my household was in anyway connected, and a gun I owned is missing, I would be extremely concerned. But George does not ever report this gun missing after the murders. Keep in mind a Glock .40 is a nice gun to have in Alaskan Bear country.

But it is at the Montana border he can no longer plead ignorance. your vehicle is held up at the border for you and 3 other members of your family to be interviewed by a State law enforcement agency 1600+ miles away investigating those 8 murders. If you are 100% innocent and know nothing of these crimes but are missing a firearm what actions would you take? If you had limited involvment in assisting your family but did not know they were going to murder 8 people what actions would you take? But if you are actively involved in the planning, you were there that night either as a look out or in the actual killings, and/or you actively helped cover up the crimes what actions would someone like that take after the Montana interviews. George purchasing the bug detector, the murder truck, sitting in the vehicle when the murder shoes are purchased, helping buid the "goose box" with the cement buckets that later have the guns found in them.

After the Montana interviews would not an innocent person get an attorney and with the assistance of the attorney let Law enforcement know #1 I am missing a gun that I own. #2 I was with my family when we purchased a truck but I now no longer know the whereabouts of said truck #3 I noticed a purchase on my credit card for a bug detector but I did not know the significance of it at that time. #4 After the murders I helped build a "goose box" with my family(that are now suspects) and we anchored said goose box with buckets of cement.

George does none of these things. His actions seem to be consistent with someone who was actively involved in the murders of 8 people. Then we have the testimony of Jake and Agnela. Both say he was involved. And now we have the wire tap evidence.

But most importantly in all this, If I was the guardian of a small child and I even began to suspect that someone I was living with (family or not) was involved in the murder of anyone what actions would I take. Would I fear for the safety of that small child and my own safety? Would I get out of that living arrangemen? Tabbi and Beth feared for their Life and knew to get out?

Definitely the shell casings at Peterson road matching shell casings at the crime scene, matching George's Glock speaks volumes to me.

Just asking you to consider the above information.

There's plenty of evidence, though, along with confessions.

 

[Betty P]

I don't agree. The plea deal for Jake was that if he admits guilt and testifies in any family member's trials, that the death penalty is off the table for him and his whole family.

It doesn't make sense to testify against family members so you can help put them to death. Jake got the death penalty off the table for his whole family.

********"**********"*"""""""""***************************************************************"""""***************

Jake Wagner pleaded guilty to the murders. In exchange for his testimony, the death penalty would be dropped against all four Wagners. Angela Wagner has also pleaded guilty. As part of Jake's plea, the prosecution agreed to take away the death penalty in all four cases.

Jake Wagner pleads guilty in Pike County massacre

Edward “Jake” Wagner is now pleading guilty to eight counts of aggravated murder and other charges.

www.fox19.com

The State is also agreeing to dismiss the death penalty specifications against the other family members and Jake will testify against his mom, dad and brother at their trials.

‘Nobody expected this:’ Why a legal expert is shocked by Jake Wagner’s plea deal

FOX19’s legal analyst says he’s never seen anything like it.

www.fox19.com

Edward “Jake” Wagner accepted the plea deal. In exchange for removal of the death penalty in all four cases.

It says right in Billy's Motion that Jake's plea deal drops the death penalty for the family members he testifies against:

The judge ruled on this before:
In a trial, the sentence is determined by the judge.
In a plea arrangement, the sentence is determined by the prosecution. Jake's plea deal stipulated that the other family members would get LWOP if they also confess. If they go to trial, Jake's plea agreement doesn't apply. It's then up to the judge to determine the sentence.

Shorter version: When a Wagner goes to trial, Canepa has no authority to tell Judge Deering what their sentence will be. That's Judge Deering's wheelhouse.

Remember: The attorneys assigned by the state to represent the Wagners are DP certified - that's for a reason.

 

[Betty P]

I've often wondered if GWIV wasn't responsible for KR's death...something he was told he had to do by JW and BW and that's why KR only was shot once. Just a thought and AJMO

I don't think GW4 needed anyone to tell him to shoot a victim that night. He isn't the kind of guy who needs for people to tell him what to do. He was on a rampage that night with the rest of his family. They had a list of people to kill and they completed it.

This case, while crazy, is really pretty simple. For their own crazy reasons, the Wagners decided to kill The Rhodens, and all the people who were there with them. They planned, they carried it out and they covered it up.

We'll never understand the reasons why, but we can understand how they operated, how they made decisions, how they protected each other. Think of them as being just like any other organized crime family, Mafia, etc. Same thing.

 

[Chelly]

The judge ruled on this before:
In a trial, the sentence is determined by the judge.
In a plea arrangement, the sentence is determined by the prosecution. Jake's plea deal stipulated that the other family members would get LWOP if they also confess. If they go to trial, Jake's plea agreement doesn't apply. It's then up to the judge to determine the sentence.

Shorter version: When a Wagner goes to trial, Canepa has no authority to tell Judge Deering what their sentence will be. That's Judge Deering's wheelhouse.

Remember: The attorneys assigned by the state to represent the Wagners are DP certified - that's for a reason.

Please provide a link substantiating "if they also confess"

According to all MSM reports. The words ".. prosecutors agreed to drop the death penalty option for all four Wagners..." were the plea deal.
Not the words if they also confess. See links posted above. #353 and #354

 

[justtrish]

I just can't believe that BCI, the prosecutors, and the lawyers involved with Jake and Angela would somehow conspire to create this situation where Angela and Jake are made to lie and say George is involved in order to get a deal. Do police do dirty things sometimes, yes. Do people lie and say someone else did a crime to save their own butt yes. Do people take deals to try to save their own butt and pin something on another yes. This investigation was 2 1/2 years long. They waited and listened and watched to make sure of the arrests before they charged them. I firmly believe if they saw or heard anything during those 2 1/2 years that excluded George from the planning and execution of these 8 people, they would not have charged him. It does not serve any purpose to accuse an innocent person. There were many MANY opportunities as a previous poster listed out when George could have said, I think my family did this and I don't want to be wrapped up in it, I am scared of my family, I am scared for my son, etc. He didn't. He instead lied just like they did, he was evasive on recorded calls just like they were, he talks just like they do, he talks about moving away WITH HIS FAMILY just months before their arrest, he tells his "girlfriend", something about his family being super close and was she okay with that just months before they were arrested. He was not afraid of them, trying to get away from them, or showing any signs that he was not part of their close knit group.

I don't understand how this guy that has been so involved with every crime this family committed up to this point is now somehow not involved in this one thing and all of it was some conspiracy to put him there, if he wasn't.

One person wearing 2 left shoes to make it look like 2 people were there?
His gun being used without him knowing about it? Then he doesn't question where that said gun is after that? Instead he goes out and buys another right away.
Everyone just uses his accounts to buy murder items and somehow it's all to later claim he was involved, but he just didn't know these items were purchased with his card?
A truck is bought and then disposed of in less than a month, but he has no idea what happened to it and doesn't think it's suspicious at all, but Jake and Angela lie to say he knew about it when he just didn't?
He was just drugged that night and slept it off and woke up the next day and knew nothing?
Helped build the thing that hid the weapons and he had no idea.
All this talk about lawyers and the paranoia about everything and he just thinks it's because they are all wrongly accused, not because they are actually guilty and paranoid about being arrested?

Then we have to believe all that and he just didn't know AND then believe that everyone else involved in this case just wanted him wrongly accused and guilty as the rest and so they coerced Jake and Angela to lie about him being there that night in order to secure their deals, but Jake's deal also included removing the DP from his family members.. seems like a selfish deal right?

If there were a couple things we could dismiss as coincidence or wow that horrible luck.. sure, but when we see so many things that would have to be coincidence, it doesn't add up.

What I can see is Jake saying I did this and telling his lawyers what happened, but saying I won't testify against my family. They are proceeding with trial then. At some point he changes his mind and says, I will testify, but only if you take the DP off the table for everyone. He then still doesn't want to testify, so he tries to minimize everyone else's role. He thinks this will not be as bad for them as saying they did the horrible things. Sounds better to say George just couldn't pull the trigger, George was a lookout, George didn't want to do it. Well that isn't how the law works because even if all that is true George is just as guilty, but in Jake's mind he isn't testifying "as bad" as he could. So maybe lies, but not lies to place him there when he wasn't, I believe minimizing George's role so Jake feels better about having to testify at all. Why would Jake's lawyers allow him to get on the stand and testify if they knew and believed he was going to lie. They could be in trouble for that. If the state thought what Jake was saying was an outright lie (meaning saying George was there, but he wasn't) then they could be in trouble for that.

Hopefully the defense rests by the end of next week and we have a verdict before Thanksgiving. Let the Rhoden/Manley/Gilley families have one reason to be thankful this year.

 

[Betty P]

But then there is the confusing matter of George. Do Angela and Jake have to testify in Billy's trial before we find out if the DP is off the table for George? Or because they testified already in George's trial is that enough for the prosecution to decide to take the DP off the table for him if he is found guilty?

The death penalty won't be off the table for George unless he enters a plea deal and confesses prior to his case going to the jury. Absent a plea deal, when the jury comes back with a verdict for GW4, Judge Deering will then schedule sentencing hearings and make his own decision on GW4's sentence. It may include the DP, per the jury's verdict on the 21 counts.

It's true, though, that Angela and Jake have to testify in both trials before the prosecution reviews their testimony and signs off on the plea agreements, giving Jake LWOP and AW mandatory 30 years.