OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[sunshineray]

Billy made sure not to leave any shoe prints.
How could he do that? There were copious amounts of blood everywhere and very limited space to drag bodies in. We know Billy was inside Chris's trailer, he shot both Chris and Gary with that .40 Glock according to Jake.

I just think that if Angie is telling the truth and George told her he wanted to wipe away the prints, if Billy was wearing his own boots, why would he tell George not to worry about it?

Let's think this over for a minute ok? Billy plans everything. That has been said several times. Gather the guns and ammo. Get a different vehicle not connected to us. Buy supplies for silencers. make silencers and test them. Think up foolproof plan to get us inside Chris's house. Plan the night it's carried out when it is cloudy so it is less likely to be seen. Buy shoes. Buy other supplies. Burn everything afterwards. Give the truck to his niece the next morning. Build goosebox for his father and anchor it down with cement buckets containing the cut up weapons. Hide it in plain sight in his moms pond. Every detail planned out right down to the nickel.

Then Angie tells us George told her he wanted to wipe out footprints and Billy said don't worry about it? A man who plans out every detail to not get caught? He has his own boots on and there is copious amounts of blood every where and he doesn't worry one bit about stepping in blood with boots that someone might have seen him wearing in the months or years prior and leaving footprints that can be traced back to him? That does not sound right. No it does not sound like the Billy we know.

Only two things here about what really happened. Since we know the footprint is there the only reason Billy didn't get rid of it was he was wearing the Walmart shoes that Angie bought. And Angie lied about George telling her he wanted to wipe out the footprint and Billy said don't worry about it. the only way Billy would not worry about that shoeprint and leave it there is if he was wearing the Walmart shoes that he thought could not be traced back to him.

She lied about what George told her and about him being in Chris's trailer. It is the only thing that fits. Because it sure as heck don't fit that a man like Billy that plans out everything so it is not connected back to him would blow off bloody footprints if he was wearing his own boots.

Was it said somewhere that those boots found during the search at the friends house were a size 12? Didn't Angie say she bought the shoes in a smaller size than they wore? If so Billy might have gotten that size 11 on his feet.

JMO

What would it matter if someone left prints in their own shoes when he planned to burn everything he wore that night, shoes go up in flames and there's nothing to match. The only reason the Walmart shoes were a part of the evidence is because that exact style of shoe was brought right before the murders by AW, for the boys (which she admitted under interrogation).

 

[sunshineray]

And what if he does and is much more believable to the jury that Jake and Angie is?

JW and AW have admitted guilt on camera in a court of law, we got to watch. Even though we couldn't see/hear them testify at GWIV's trial we've still seen them exposed as guilty by their own words. If GWIV were to take the stand, I doubt it will be on camera, but if he did and stated he has an iron-clad alibi that could be corroborated, again on camera...then yes, I might consider weighing all their demeanors and words against one another.

 

[Dudly]

Agree. I'm putting my faith in the jury. I can't in good faith make a decision based on what I've seen, if I were a juror. The real jurors have seen so much more. They've not missed a single day nor a single word. What they decide, I will consider justice done. My views are from an armchair perspective, with what info I've been provided, only. Our transcribers have done a bang up job. However, without being there in person, I can't accurately read it in the witnesses voices and tones. Just like two folks who were there, when JW testified, and had different views of his behaviour on stand.

I’ve said it before, if 10 people see/read the same thing, you will get up to 9 interpretations of what they see/read. I have heard eye witness accounts are the least reliable evidence.

Constitutional Rights Foundation

CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS FOUNDATION Bill of Rights in Action Summer 1997 (13:3)Forensic EvidenceBRIA 13:3 Home | The Riddle of the Romanovs | DNA, Lie Detector, and Voiceprint Evidence | How Reliable Are Eyewitnesses? How Reliable Are Eyewitnesse, Eyewitness testimony occupies a prominent place in...

www.crf-usa.org

 

[Myland]

Jmo I was listening to pretty lies and it was stated Capena did not ask Jake about those trucks going down the road on video. So that tells me they were not related to that night.

 

[BeckyF]

DBM

 

[Betty P]

GW signed those fake papers prior to April 21 saying that AW was to have some custody of VW. MOO, just in case he didn't come home from Union Hill Road that morning, the same as JW. I'm thinking they were afraid 1 or 2 people couldn't tangle with CR, KR or FR and come out on without wounds.
There's no doubt in my mind, AW started this whole conspiracy, and GW fed into it.
Was AW attempting to insure that 5 of her Wagner's would get a full piece of FW's pie, and not their baby Mama's families?

This is a very important point. The signing of the custody documents to give control to Angela was done by all 3 Wagner men. They fully expected one or more of them might be killed or end up in prison as a result of the murder spree.

Inheritance of FWF and future income was also part of the motive for controlling custody of the offspring of her sons. Angela had all the bases covered, or so she thought.

 

[Betty P]

We don’t know what he signed. AW put a form in front of him. Was it (fake) notarized at that point? How would GWIV know it was a forgery? Of course he would want custody to go to AW if anything were to happen to him. But why would he think anything would happen to him? He didn’t know what they were planning. Presumably.

ETA: He wasn’t going to Union Hill Road. Presumably.

The document and his signature have been verified By BCI. GW4 signed it. It’s been submitted as evidence and the jury will have access to it during deliberations.

He signed for the same reason Jake signed it - to keep custody of his son in the family in the event he was killed during the murder spree. Jake understood it as well. No doubt this was all discussed at one of the family meetings.

 

[Betty P]

I can't figure out the print at DR's. If they did all of that running around, how did that print remain so fresh by the time they reached her home? I remember JW said he burnt up the floor mats, clothing, phone's, etc. .

It was a print, taken and analyzed by BCI. It’s in evidence and will be available to jurors.

 

[sunshineray]

Jmo I was listening to pretty lies and it was stated Capena did not ask Jake about those trucks going down the road on video. So that tells me they were not related to that night.

If that's the case, I wonder why the defense didn't bring those truck videos up? Maybe they will under direct, when they recall JW.

 

[iulia]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1592269121206591489

https://twitter.com/x/status/1592269125623382017

https://twitter.com/x/status/1592269134464970753

 

[Helechawagirl]

This case is so unusual. We argue amongst ourselves when and if the DP still applies. And Judge Deering could rule completely differently from what we are thinking. GWIV should take the stand (again unusual) and give us (ahead of Billy’s trial) version 3.0 of what happened that night.

Maybe the plan is to confuse jurors enough so that reasonable doubt exists.

 

[Pyrite]

That's up to the jury to decide.
Personally, I'm opposed to the death penalty, so I probably wouldn't be chosen for a jury like this.
As GW4 is a violent, angry, controlling and abusive man who I believe participated in the murders of these 8 people, I think he should get life, probably even LWOP.

He's not remorseful. He's a definite risk to any community outside of prison. JMO

He shot, helped shoot or stood by while someone else shot 8 innocent people. Mothers laying in bed, nursing infants, leaving the babies screaming, drenched in their parent's blood. What kind of person does that?

What kind of person does that? A monster who should be put down for the safety of society, IMO. However, if prosecution doesn’t convince the jury that GW4 di the things you mentioned beyond a reasonable doubt, then he will walk.

Relying on two confessed felons, who had a motivation to lie and seem to at least bend the truth about other things during testimony, to convince the jury that GW4 is guiltily is going to be a tough sale. Yet without their testimony, I didn’t see much evidence of his guilt, except his association with his crime family. An association that never stretched to include murder before. I personally have a hard time believing known liars.

 

[Helechawagirl]

If It was just he and Jake in the truck, why pull over and stop to ask? Why not just ask as you drove down the road?

To buy a little time? Have a serious discussion

 

[ColMustard]

Heard Parker say yesterday they have 50 autopsy photos they object to, along with plenty more.

They're in session.

Edit: A stack of photos almost a foot thick to work through. Along with the physical evidence.

Editeded: JMO, MOO SS

This is horribly inefficient in this day and age, reading a list of numbers aloud while the judge writes it down, then the judge reading the list back to see if he made any mistakes. For heaven's sake just print three lists off the same document! And just now we're correcting mistakes made in copying the list by hand.

 

[Betty P]

What kind of person does that? A monster who should be put down for the safety of society, IMO. However, if prosecution doesn’t convince the jury that GW4 di the things you mentioned beyond a reasonable doubt, then he will walk.

Relying on two confessed felons, who had a motivation to lie and seem to at least bend the truth about other things during testimony, to convince the jury that GW4 is guiltily is going to be a tough sale. Yet without their testimony, I didn’t see much evidence of his guilt, except his association with his crime family. An association that never stretched to include murder before. I personally have a hard time believing known liars.

Confessions have long been used to keep bad people behind bars. Jake confessed not just to save himself from the death penalty, but to save his family/co-conspirators. His confession has been very helpful and should be considered by the jury. If he lied, he and the rest of his family go to trial with DP as the sentence.

There is much evidence of GW4's guilt. The standard has been met for Aggravated Murder/Aggravated Burglary, which applies even if the perp was present at any of the crime scenes. Evidence and Jake's confession confirm that he was. There's also ample evidence for the other 19 charges, along with the specifications. Shoe prints, ballistics, silencer, murder weapons, murder vehicle, texts, recordings, etc. All have been retrieved and entered into evidence.

 

[Betty P]

Heard Parker say yesterday they have 50 autopsy photos they object to, along with plenty more.

They're in session.

Edit: A stack of photos almost a foot thick to work through. Along with the physical evidence.

They probably don't need all of them, but most are necessary. Through all the defense spin, the jury needs to be shown how heinous these crimes were. None of the victims deserved to be so brutally murdered. None of them.

Also important to show the autopsy tox reports. Only drug in their systems was caffeine, with the exception of Gary.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/jamespilcher

Good morning from snowy Pike Co. Lawyers for both sides will argue over which prosecution pictures the jury can see as evidence during deliberations this morning starting any minute. Then the jury arrives at noon for the continuation of the defense's case.

Parker now arguing over the three he objects to from Scene 1 - saying the upclose shots of Gary's face and head are prejudicial. Not showing them on monitors.

Wilson - they document the position of the wounds as they were found. Where the blood was found and they feel they are probative as to the position of the victim.

Parker: We've never disputed type of wounds or positioning. Judge says there is sufficient difference in the pictures to allow them to be admitted.

Prosecution withdraws one of them. The other two admitted over defense objections.

 

[arielilane]

Exactly! I think if he takes the stand, Clark Kent / Superman will tear him up !
Junk seems happy go lucky, Canepa, ?
It would have to be Clark Kent, don't know his name.

Andrew Wilson, Special Prosecutor

 

[24Roses]

The jury is coming in at noon eastern today? Is that correct?

 

[arielilane]

Jake admitted to using a portable grinder to cut murder weapons, which included a Colt 1911 .22, a Glock .40, and an SKS rifle. He then melted the metal and placed the parts in a duffel bag before he and George buried the bag in the barn.

'I Had No Choice:' Convicted Killer Testifies Against Brother In Pike County Family Massacre Trial | Oxygen Official Site

Later, according to Jake, it was his father, Billy, who grew uneasy about the gun parts being buried in the barn following interviews by state agents. Billy and Jake then placed the guns in buckets filled with concrete mix, later used as weights for a floating goose house, which was gifted to Billy’s father on the property of the Wagner’s Flying W Farm.