OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[Betty P]

Thanks for your informative post Betty but on checking my notes I've got most of your content covered. Will be looking at a few bits and pieces and listening again tomorrow to make my own mind up before Court starts here at 2pm.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but I'm trying to understand what more needs to be covered? I don't think there was any DNA testing of those shoe prints and I'm not sure why it would be relevant. Help me out, what am I missing? TIA

 

[Betty P]

Poor judge is tired. He was propping his head up with his hand earlier.

If they go much longer, they will need some of whatever caffeine George was on.

This is exactly what the defense team wants to accomplish - physically exhaust everyone, wear them down so they get a better deal. Sow confusion in hopes of making the prosecution team make a mistake, overlook something, etc.

They're forcing a time crunch because the Thanksgiving holiday weekend is coming up. Judge is trying to avoid making jury deliberate over Thanksgiving.

It's a trick used in Congress and legislatures when elected officials are trying to pass things like budget bills - exhaust the other side, make them stay up 48 hrs in a row, etc. so they'll make all kinds of concessions just to go get some sleep.

 

[Lilttledoggie]

This is exactly what the defense team wants to accomplish - physically exhaust everyone, wear them down so they get a better deal. Sow confusion in hopes of making the prosecution team make a mistake, overlook something, etc.

It's a trick used in Congress and legislatures when elected officials are trying to pass things like budget bills - exhaust the other side, make them stay up 48 hrs in a row, etc. so they'll make all kinds of concessions just to go get some sleep.

Well I hope in all the confusion they don’t forget to clear up the boundary lines of Dana’s home as the judge requested.

 

[Betty P]

Well I hope in all the confusion they don’t forget to clear up the boundary lines of Dana’s home as the judge requested.

I missed that argument. Are they talking about the property lines of Dana's property? Just curious why that would be important?

ETA: Important point by Andy Wilson about evidence related to the weapons Wagners owned that they gave to Robin Wagner to hide before they went to Alaska.

That evidence is relevant because a witness friend of the Wagners testified that the Wags told the friend that they sold all the weapons before they went to Alaska.

Why did they lie about selling those guns, when they were hiding them in Robin Wagners bedroom?

 

[justtrish]

This is exactly what the defense team wants to accomplish - physically exhaust everyone, wear them down so they get a better deal. Sow confusion in hopes of making the prosecution team make a mistake, overlook something, etc.

They're forcing a time crunch because the Thanksgiving holiday weekend is coming up. Judge is trying to avoid making jury deliberate over Thanksgiving.

It's a trick used in Congress and legislatures when elected officials are trying to pass things like budget bills - exhaust the other side, make them stay up 48 hrs in a row, etc. so they'll make all kinds of concessions just to go get some sleep.

Is it possible the defense is nearly ready to rest also? They only had 2 witnesses lined up for today and the total time 2 of them were on the stand was less than 30 minutes. They had to know they didn't have many questions for them. So why not have more witnesses lined up? Maybe they only have a few tomorrow and they will be done? Then closing arguments. The witnesses left that have been subpoenaed are the Walls (3 of them I think.. were they the owners of the Big bear place? Then the BCI agent that interviewed George and maybe one other LE. They don't have to call all of those they subpoena correct?

 

[pittsburghgirl]

She didn want the GWIV interview played unless she could question him on the witness stand about the content

She didn't want Jake's interview from the MT border played either, she fought to keep it out, arguing with Parker and Jake did testify on the stand. So how do you reconcile that?

JMO

If they play George4 interview tapes, it's like he can testify without being cross-examined. That's not going to happen.

 

[arielilane]

Mounts on walls in rural Pike and Adams Counties are plastered in MANY homes, as well as plenty of surrounding counties. I wouldn't do it but lots of families do. JMO

So true, and typical for hunters. Poaching is cruel, imo.

Definitely not my jam.

 

[Betty P]

Is it possible the defense is nearly ready to rest also? They only had 2 witnesses lined up for today and the total time 2 of them were on the stand was less than 30 minutes. They had to know they didn't have many questions for them. So why not have more witnesses lined up? Maybe they only have a few tomorrow and they will be done? Then closing arguments. The witnesses left that have been subpoenaed are the Walls (3 of them I think.. were they the owners of the Big bear place? Then the BCI agent that interviewed George and maybe one other LE. They don't have to call all of those they subpoena correct?

No, they don't have to call all the witnesses they subpoena. They may not have many witnesses left to question.

I would think they would want to get this over with, too, but they want to exhaust their opposition and drag out this process because they feel it works to their advantage. There might be some important pieces of evidence they will try to get dropped because prosecution and judge are both tired.

 

[Betty P]

If they play George4 interview tapes, it's like he can testify without being cross-examined. That's not going to happen.

A great alternative would be to have GW4 testify on the stand. He can be cross examined, too.

 

[arielilane]

Earlier Judge was trying to understand how much longer this was going to go on. Judge said the prosecution knows but he doesn’t know. The prosecution wants to continue presenting evidence to the jury and also go through prosecution evidence, but the defense objection causes delay. Though it is their right to object.


IMO it’s imperative that prosecution evidence is admitted. Need as much evidence possible.

 

[justtrish]

A great alternative would be to have GW4 testify on the stand. He can be cross examined, too.

After really thinking about how they have presented the defense so far and what they said in opening, I think they might believe George is guilty. If that is the case they can't put in on the stand can they? I guess they could, but they can't ask him certain questions right? Or if they think he is going to lie they can't do that?

 

[Cool Cats]

We don't 100% know that, but usually the defendant does not take the stand. It almost always is better (or at least not worse) for them to just remain silent.

O/T sorta, but I recall in Molly Tibbits trial the defendant took the stand and told the most unbelievable made up line of crapola story ever about he was abducted and dropped off with Molly's body (something along these lines) and I actually couldn't believe his lawyers put him on the stand to lie. No way they believed that story.

Anyway if they put George on the stand and they know he is involved, I think they can be in trouble if they allow him to stay things they know aren't true.

Quote:
"Anyway if they put George on the stand and they know he is involved, I think they can be in trouble if they allow him to stay things they know aren't true."

I think it's the opposite. Even if his attorneys thought George shot someone that night, they can't stop George from testifying in court that he shot nobody. They can't stop George from defending himself on the stand. They have to give him a good defense and would be in trouble if they didn't.

Your right, often the defendant does not take the stand and especially because then the prosecution can pick apart their testimony. You mentioned the Molly Tibbits trial. Here is a trial that sticks out to me of a defendant not "helping" themselves by taking the stand:

Experts: Travis McMichael 'didn't come off as credible'

Travis McMichael sealed his fate when he took the stand in the murder trial related to Ahmaud Arbery's death, legal experts said.

www.aol.com

Travis McMichael sealed his fate when he took the stand in his own defense in the murder trial related to the death of Ahmaud Arbery, a 25-year-old Black man who was chased down and killed by three white men in what prosecutors called a "modern-day lynching," legal experts said.

But Travis McMichael “really didn’t come off as credible,” criminal defense attorney Bernarda Villalona said on NBC News.

"Travis McMichael was a horrible witness," said former federal prosecutor Glenn Kirschner, a legal analyst for NBC News and MSNBC. "Rarely have I seen a defendant who's put on the stand by his defense team really perform so poorly."

 

[justtrish]

Earlier Judge was trying to understand how much longer this was going to go on. Judge said the prosecution knows but he doesn’t know. The prosecution wants to continue presenting evidence to the jury and also go through prosecution evidence, but the defense objection causes delay. Though it is their right to object.


IMO it’s imperative that prosecution evidence is admitted. Need as much evidence possible.

AC also said they had all the evidence given to the defense so they could decide what they were objecting to so this process could be more smooth now, but it seems now the defense is objecting to things that they didn't say they would before.

 

[altojack]

I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but I'm trying to understand what more needs to be covered? I don't think there was any DNA testing of those shoe prints and I'm not sure why it would be relevant. Help me out, what am I missing? TIA

Not just prints were involved Betty, so I'll leave that there. The of the other evidence is lined up ready to go through tomorrow. I won't say what as I'd rather come to my own conclusion. Does that make sense.

 

[Cool Cats]

But you know G4 won't realistically take the stand.

JMO

How do we know that?

Because his defense lawyers are too smart to want him on the stand. Can you imagine his temper and being grilled by Canepa and "Clark Kent."

Catching him in a lie just for starters. Hard to keep track of all your lies and excuses.

 

[justtrish]

Quote:
"Anyway if they put George on the stand and they know he is involved, I think they can be in trouble if they allow him to stay things they know aren't true."

I think it's the opposite. Even if his attorneys thought George shot someone that night, they can't stop George from testifying in court that he shot nobody. They can't stop George from defending himself on the stand. They have to give him a good defense and would be in trouble if they didn't.

Your right, often the defendant does not take the stand and especially because then the prosecution can pick apart their testimony. You mentioned the Molly Tibbits trial. Here is a trial that sticks out to me of a defendant not "helping" themselves by taking the stand:

Experts: Travis McMichael 'didn't come off as credible'

Travis McMichael sealed his fate when he took the stand in the murder trial related to Ahmaud Arbery's death, legal experts said.

www.aol.com

Travis McMichael sealed his fate when he took the stand in his own defense in the murder trial related to the death of Ahmaud Arbery, a 25-year-old Black man who was chased down and killed by three white men in what prosecutors called a "modern-day lynching," legal experts said.

But Travis McMichael “really didn’t come off as credible,” criminal defense attorney Bernarda Villalona said on NBC News.

"Travis McMichael was a horrible witness," said former federal prosecutor Glenn Kirschner, a legal analyst for NBC News and MSNBC. "Rarely have I seen a defendant who's put on the stand by his defense team really perform so poorly."

I was googling some things about defendants taking the stand and I came across one statement that said generally I'd only put the defendant on the stand if they were the equalivent of Mother Teresa and needed to prove self defense or if the client insists. It's never a good idea to give the client over to the total control of the state.

Mother Teresa = George.. I think not. So I think unless George insists, it will likely be a no.

 

[arielilane]

These poor officers of the court are tired but again it’s imperative that prosecution evidence is admitted, IMO. I find this all really interesting. Too bad it wasn't planned better.

 

[JerseyGirl]

New thread, this one will close in a few minutes:

OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered O8ver Custody Issue - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #84

PIKE COUNTY, Ohio — A town woke up one morning to the horror that eight people were brutally killed. The Rhoden family suffered an unthinkable loss eight times over on one late April night in 2016. And years would go by before an arrest was made, and the massacre of an entire family still...

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