OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #84

[Betty P]

https://twitter.com/jamespilcher

They are reviewing more exhibits tonight so the stream is still up. They also might remove death penalty specifications from George since Jake testified - that would remove requirement of jury being sequestered as a death penalty case

Oh, this is interesting.

 

[Skully67]

And where he said pretty much every witness who testified differently from what he did was lying....oh wait that they were mistaken. Everyone one was mistaken in their testimony but him, he's telling the truth, not them, they were just mistaken, well except for AW and JW, they were lying, of course...well sometimes they were mistaken too...hummmm convenient. IMO. It's remarkable how everything is so easily explained away...every time.

George is such a victim in everything, he's been so misunderstood, his whole life. It's all just mistaken people in his life and liars. Poor George, what a time he's had, his whole life. JMO

When GW4 said that...that everyone was lying or mistaken, that made me pause. Yeah, some may be lying or mistaken, but ALL of them? Nope. Some had no dog in this fight, and no reason to lie. That made me stop and think maybe GW4 is lying about everything because why would you make such a statement.

 

[Skully67]

the jury will not have transcripts in the jury room even though they had allowed them in court to read along, Judge will instruct them that they are to rely solely on what they hear on the audio

I know that. But we were told the media could have them.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/ToddDykesWLWT

IMPORTANT: Angela Canepa just said George Wagner told agents in 2017 that he and his family watched a “fairy movie” that Jake Wagner’s daughter wanted to watch on the night of the #PikeCountyMassacre. 1/2

2/2 During his 2017 interview w/ agents, George said he went to bed around 12:30 a.m. Yesterday, George testified he went to bed at “10ish.”

Prosecutor Angela Canepa is hammering away on timing discrepancies on the night investigators say George, Jake and Billy Wagner drove to Union Hill Rd. in Pike Co. & started killing 8 members of the Rhoden family.

Ms. Canepa is making the point that #GeorgeWagner's memory was likely better one year after the murders (when he was interviewed by OH BCI agents) than now - 6 years after the homicides

THINKING OUT LOUD.. I've been wondering why prosecutors did not play the recording of the interview #GeorgeWagner did w/ OH BCI investigators at Montana's border w/ Canada in 2017. 1/2

2/2 It's dawning on me that prosecutors may not have played the recording b/c hearing it could have helped shaped certain answers George is now giving on the witness stand, while being cross-examined by Angela Canepa.

George Wagner just acknowledged he called his young niece (Jake’s daughter) a swear word that rhymes with ‘itch.’ Was not easy to hear this.. George blamed a lack of sleep and “massive amounts of caffeine.”

 

[Skully67]

I wonder why the Montana interview isn't presented in court.

 

[joe jones]

IDK, she went over that interveiew quite a bit. If Agent Scheiderer testifies tomorrow, he'll probably go over some of it, too.


Defense said they had no more witnesses. State might be bringing some in. They really had short notice. Defense intentionally waited until the state was ready to rest before suddenly showing up with GW4 - well rehearsed and ready to testify.

The defense couldn't exactly ask GW to testify in his defense in the states CIC, and they have no duty to tell the state whether he would or would not testify, this is how every trial happens, state rests defense begins its CIC

I haven't seen GW testimony yet, but the defense earned every penny of their salary by precluding the state from being able to ask GW one question about the crime scenes, they could not show GW gory crime scene photos of the victims and ask him is this what you saw that night, the route taken to and from the crime scenes, who shot who and in what order, what homes did he go in etc.

and irrespective of GW being convicted he will have appeals to keep him occupied in jail, just reading the transcript will keep him going for a while,

I wonder if BW defense team will do a very similar defense, there is even less evidence against BW (if we exclude JW and AW) and they are surely watching this trial very closely,

 

[Betty P]

2/2 It's dawning on me that prosecutors may not have played the recording b/c hearing it could have helped shaped certain answers George is now giving on the witness stand, while being cross-examined by Angela Canepa.

Yes, this. No sinister or suspect motive. AC wasn't going to play the tapes of his original interview before cross examination because she didn't want to give him a refresher on what his answers were 6 years ago. Caught him in some lies.

It's the same reason she didn't want defense to play the interview earlier in the trial. They shouldn't use his earlier answers to coach him.

AC probably suspected all along that defense was going to put him on the witness stand. I don't think defense was surprised by his sudden testimony yesterday. She just wasn't sure when Parker would spring it on them.

No CT.

 

[arielilane]

For those unaware, Law & Crime stream is still up, in real time, counsels are reviewing more exhibits.

 

[arielilane]

Actually they're ending now, and will pick back up tomorrow at 8:00 am ET.

 

[joe jones]

https://twitter.com/ToddDykesWLWT

IMPORTANT: Angela Canepa just said George Wagner told agents in 2017 that he and his family watched a “fairy movie” that Jake Wagner’s daughter wanted to watch on the night of the #PikeCountyMassacre. 1/2

2/2 During his 2017 interview w/ agents, George said he went to bed around 12:30 a.m. Yesterday, George testified he went to bed at “10ish.”

Prosecutor Angela Canepa is hammering away on timing discrepancies on the night investigators say George, Jake and Billy Wagner drove to Union Hill Rd. in Pike Co. & started killing 8 members of the Rhoden family.

Ms. Canepa is making the point that #GeorgeWagner's memory was likely better one year after the murders (when he was interviewed by OH BCI agents) than now - 6 years after the homicides

THINKING OUT LOUD.. I've been wondering why prosecutors did not play the recording of the interview #GeorgeWagner did w/ OH BCI investigators at Montana's border w/ Canada in 2017. 1/2

2/2 It's dawning on me that prosecutors may not have played the recording b/c hearing it could have helped shaped certain answers George is now giving on the witness stand, while being cross-examined by Angela Canepa.

George Wagner just acknowledged he called his young niece (Jake’s daughter) a swear word that rhymes with ‘itch.’ Was not easy to hear this.. George blamed a lack of sleep and “massive amounts of caffeine.”

by now I imagine GW is almost word perfect on every utterance he made to LE or on the wiretaps, so he would have known exactly what he said, but we also make small mistakes when asked to remember things from so long ago, so trying to remember the exact time he went to bed wouldn't have been important to him until he was arrested,

testifying in one's own defense is an art and a science, and GW attys prepped him as well as any defendant I have seen (well not seen but am trying to catch up with what has been posted), especially when we consider he is a man with little to no formal education,

 

[Betty P]

For those unaware, Law & Crime stream is still up, in real time, counsels are reviewing more exhibits.

Thanks!

All I'm getting is the LiveU screen.

 

[joe jones]

I wonder why the Montana interview isn't presented in court.

I think the state must now be kicking themselves, as not only would GW have had to remember all he said in the Montana interview he would have to have worked that into his story he wanted to tell on the stand,

 

[arielilane]

During the exchange, George seemed frustrated, stumbling a bit over his words and occasionally answering over Canepa.

He insisted Frankie hadn't held any grudges against him after learning he'd spoken to the mother of Frankie's older child privately on social media; when Chelsea testified that was true, she was mistaken, he said, but refused to agree with Canepa that he was calling her a liar.

Canepa brought out the transcript of George's interview with BCI when the family was detained trying to cross the border from Canada into Montana in 2017, noting that several things he'd said then didn't match his testimony in trial. George said he didn't remember much of what he'd told agents back then.

During the interrogation, he'd told agents he went to bed the night of the murders at around 12:30 a.m., after watching a movie with his family, but during testimony while on the stand he told the jury he went to bed around 10 p.m. that night. George said he didn't remember the details of what he told BCI, but doubled down on his testimony that he'd been in bed close to 10 p.m.

To BCI, he'd defended his family, but during testimony he'd behaved as if he couldn't stand them, Canepa pointed out. George again said he couldn't remember the details of his interview with BCI, but emphasized he wasn't lying on the stand.

During cross examination, Canepa became increasingly waspish with George, who occasionally seemed frustrated but remained overall composed and steady. George often asked permission to elaborate further on questions and appeared to be eager to provide answers.

Pike County murder trial: George Wagner IV continues testifying in own defense

George — along with his mother Angela, father George "Billy" Wagner and brother Edward "Jake" Wagner — is accused of shooting and killing the Rhoden family members execution-style.

www.wcpo.com

 

[Betty P]

I wonder why the Montana interview isn't presented in court.

As others have pointed out, it's most likely because showing the Montana interview before cross examination would give GW4 the coaching he needed to remember his lies that he told there 6 yrs before.

She wanted to cross examine him without coaching, without him having a refresher course on his earlier answers/lies.

 

[sunshineray]

I wonder why the Montana interview isn't presented in court.

It may still be.

 

[familymem]

Why would a prosecutor need to prove to a jury that co-defendants who admit their guilty and agree to testify for the prosecution, are guilty?

Jury knew from day one that these 2 Wagners confessed to the crimes and pled guilty. Any time spent trying to prove their guilt, separate from focusing on George, makes about as much sense as buying murder shoes in a local store known for it's electronic surveillance systems and then not tossing out the receipt.

Juries determine level of guilt. Murder 1, 2 or manslaughter. All of the evidence proving guilt needs to be presented not just to determine level but to overcome any later "retraction" of a confession. I have served on 2 double murder trials. Long ones, where the guilt was already established in one. It is frustrating but it is how the system works.

 

[Betty P]

I think the state must now be kicking themselves, as not only would GW have had to remember all he said in the Montana interview he would have to have worked that into his story he wanted to tell on the stand,

No, just the opposite. The state did the right thing by making him answer the questions cold, without a refresher on which answers he gave in the original interview. That's pretty standard.

 

[joe jones]

His obsession with the potential for molestation is so strong… I really wonder if maybe his mum did it to him as well which is why he thinks so strongly that all maternal figures are perpetrators.

they were all obsessed with SA, but it was easy to see why AW SA victim, TC SA victim, HR SA victim, Beth SA victim, and that is the ones that testified in court,

all of TC sisters were SA by their stepfather (according to GW their mum held them down for him to abuse them) we don't know if GW was telling the truth about the holding down, but TC said her mum knew of the abuse and she continued to allow him to live in the home with her daughters,

there seemed to be a huge amount of SA victims they knew of, and nobody ever it seems went to LE and got the abuser prosecuted, so I would have been a tad obsessed with trying to protect my daughter under those circumstances,

 

[joe jones]

No, just the opposite. The state did the right thing by making him answer the questions cold, without a refresher on which answers he gave in the original interview. That's pretty standard.

he didn't need a refresher, you don't think Parker and Nash made him read and re read the transcript of his Montana interview, he knew exactly what he said in Montana - but testifying is an art, and his defense attorneys knew what they were doing

 

[HinterlandObserver]

they were all obsessed with SA, but it was easy to see why AW SA victim, TC SA victim, HR SA victim, Beth SA victim, and that is the ones that testified in court,

all of TC sisters were SA by their stepfather (according to GW their mum held them down for him to abuse them) we don't know if GW was telling the truth about the holding down, but TC said her mum knew of the abuse and she continued to allow him to live in the home with her daughters,

there seemed to be a huge amount of SA victims they knew of, and nobody ever it seems went to LE and got the abuser prosecuted, so I would have been a tad obsessed with trying to protect my daughter under those circumstances,

Sure maybe of strangers or even not close family members, but of people trusted enough to marry or take on as a child’s step parent?