OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #84

[joe jones]

Sure maybe of strangers or even not close family members, but of people trusted enough to marry or take on as a child’s step parent?

but all the abusers of all those victims were close family, we do not know who HR was raped by but it was family, so was TC by her stepfather, Beth was abused by her two brothers, so the Wagners saw that in families lots of SA was going on, nobody was ever prosecuted, so if it could happen to all those girls within their families then maybe it could happen to SW,

it is no excuse for the murders, but I understand why they were concerned over SW being SA,

 

[Skully67]

Yes, this. No sinister or suspect motive. AC wasn't going to play the tapes of his original interview before cross examination because she didn't want to give him a refresher on what his answers were 6 years ago. Caught him in some lies.

It's the same reason she didn't want defense to play the interview earlier in the trial. They shouldn't use his earlier answers to coach him.

AC probably suspected all along that defense was going to put him on the witness stand. I don't think defense was surprised by his sudden testimony yesterday. She just wasn't sure when Parker would spring it on them.

No CT.

But in discovery, wouldn't prosecution have had to turn the Montana interview over to defense. Surely GW4 has heard or read it.

 

[rsd1200]

AC: That's not what you said at the border is it?
GW: I meant that she tried to be controlling over me. (as one example)

(Well AC, maybe if you'd allowed the tape to be played, of the DEFENDANT's interview, we'd know for sure if he changed his his answer, and we'd know in what way he said it, and if he elaborated further than a Yes or No. Unimpressed.)

 

[rsd1200]

I listened on my cell phone.

See the trick the defense team pulled here? They knew secretly they were going to put GW4 on the stand to testify. In preparation, they pulled all of that delaying BS over the evidence so that the prosecution was exhausted from working long hours. They have short notice to put together cross-examination with little sleep and lots of exhaustion.

<modsnip>

So, the defense attorneys are well-rested, fresh-pressed, and party-perfect? They must have much more stamina.

 

[teresa1589]

the jury will not have transcripts in the jury room even though they had allowed them in court to read along, Judge will instruct them that they are to rely solely on what they hear on the audio

Did they maybe write on their note pads when heard audio or from transcripts?

 

[NWLady]

Has he ever answered one yes or no question with a yes or no?

IMO, he seems to answer just yes or no mainly to questions in regards to the murders being planned, carried out, covered up, etc. The majority of all the other questions, he seems to want to add more to his answers and even at times is TMI, just to hear himself talk. His voice in regards to Parker's questions was more squeaky, softer spoken and a lower tone; however IMO, this is entirely different in regards to how he answers/responds to AC's questions. And yes, I agree GW is lying and lying some more....BUT, BUT, BUT a lot of his negative statements, name-calling, etc. that he is confronted about by AC, GW says are due to his excessive caffeine use and/or lack of sleep. Yeah, okay George. I'm not buying it.

JMO.

 

[joe jones]

Did they maybe write on their note pads when heard audio or from transcripts?

they had transcripts in jury box but won't be allowed to take them into deliberations, so I hope they wrote on there note pads

 

[HinterlandObserver]

but all the abusers of all those victims were close family, we do not know who HR was raped by but it was family, so was TC by her stepfather, Beth was abused by her two brothers, so the Wagners saw that in families lots of SA was going on, nobody was ever prosecuted, so if it could happen to all those girls within their families then maybe it could happen to SW,

it is no excuse for the murders, but I understand why they were concerned over SW being SA,

I agree, it’s fair to be concerned in general. But if you’re George, why even take on partners if you’d just assume they were all going to assault your children by default because it’s happened before, know what I mean?
And why is your mother outside of the rule despite having been a victim. Often it’s the victims that perpetuate it. So everyone else but AW who is a victim does it except her?
Along with all of your reasons, I just think it’s really suss.

 

[NWLady]

The most important question is:
Has the prosecution proved its case "beyond" reasonable doubt.
Asking just this one question may quell many of those on the fence.
Bearing in mind: We're faced with the dilemma of not hearing the testimony of quite a few important witnesses.
JMO

IMO, the most important question is, and will be: Does the jury believe the prosecution proved its case beyond reasonable doubt?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

So George did not date the custody document. He just signed his name to it and left. Prosecution did not come back and claim he dated it so apparently the date was in Angie's handwriting. So he did not know it was backdated.

When they talked about the gun show where Jake bought the murder weapon I wanted to yell at Parker, "Is it possible Jake drove to the gun show on his own and that is why you don't remember him driving up with you and dad? And why you don't remember him buying the gun?"

The gun shows I have went to are huge. So I can see George not knowing Jake was there or if he went after they left and I can see George not knowing if Jake bought a pistol. It was January in Ohio, so I am assuming they would be wearing a coat Jake could have concealed a pistol in.

For my part I found George to be truthful and the state has no evidence to place him in the planning, participation or coverup.

I think Jake and Angie filled his head full of the Manleys were out to get Jake and so BCI was framing them. I don't think George knew exactly what was going on.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I'm probably going to get rotten tomatoes thrown at me for this, but I'm going to say it anyway because it is my opinion of how I feel after just now finishing listening to GW's testimony right now. I'm questioning at this point, is GW really guilty? Was GW really there when the murders took place?

After hearing it said by AC (I think after AW's proffer), that AW was not there and did NOT participate in the murders, I had a very hard time believing that, and I still have a very hard time believing that. But even more so now at this point, mainly because of 2 reasons. #1 being, throughout GW's trial, we have learned IMO a LOT more about AW, from several peoples testimonies. And with that, I see more so now than ever, how controlling she was. Which now, makes me believe even more that she WAS there when the murders took place! #2 is, Which then, after listening to GW today, makes me think even harder about the possibility that GW was NOT there, but instead AW was but in order for her to get her, IMO, sweet deal, she had to throw GW under the bus because her and GW's roles were actually reversed the night of the murders. But 1 thing that I really question is, then why did GW allegedly sign the custody documents prior to the murders giving AW custody if something happened to him? Has it been testified to that that was truly GW's signature - I can't remember?

BUT, with all that said above, I am not going to say one way or another in regards to if GW is guilty or not until I have at least seen how he reacts/responds, his demeanor, etc. when being cross examined by the State, which I am hoping is done by Andrew!

So, in the meantime, I will continue to think things over some more, wait for the prosecution's cross examine and my opinion is still subject to change.

This is all JMO, my thoughts/ideas, etc. Thanks for hearing me out.

He said it was his signature, he had had several of those type things over the years both before and after the murders, starting after Tabbi left which was a long time before the murders, but he did not say he dated it and neither did the prosecution which leads me to believe Angie is the one who back dated them.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Many think JW and AW lied when they testified so why believe GWIV? Maybe he is a bigger liar then they are…

MOO

Do you think George is lying after hearing him testify for two days?

Canepa certainly could not break him. So maybe what he is saying is the truth.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jmo I believe Angela was there and was able to be there because George was asleep in the house with the kids.

So do I. I wouldn't put it past her to put something in his food to make sure he stayed asleep while she went out on her murder mission.

JMO

 

[Pru2U]

Do you think George is lying after hearing him testify for two days?

Canepa certainly could not break him. So maybe what he is saying is the truth.

JMO

I think they are all three liars.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jmo how would their lying negate the plea deal? The state wants and needs Jake to state George was there. What they going to say no Jake you are lying. Jmo

It would not negate their plea deal. They said what the state wanted them to say.

I am glad George told his side of the story. They do not have any solid evidence that he was involved and now we have him saying he was not involved.

They have tons of solid evidence that Jake and Angie were involved and their testimony they were indeed involved.

So it comes down to whoever the jury believes.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Is this the first time we are hearing about the spying? I would guess if he were actually asked to spy there would be some kind of documentation or they could get the BCI to testify whether or not they had this arrangement.

Defense has subpoenaed the BCI agent that questioned him at the border, so maybe the BCI guy can verify it.

JMO

 

[justtrish]

by now I imagine GW is almost word perfect on every utterance he made to LE or on the wiretaps, so he would have known exactly what he said, but we also make small mistakes when asked to remember things from so long ago, so trying to remember the exact time he went to bed wouldn't have been important to him until he was arrested,

testifying in one's own defense is an art and a science, and GW attys prepped him as well as any defendant I have seen (well not seen but am trying to catch up with what has been posted), especially when we consider he is a man with little to no formal education,

I think not remembering the time was big though. His memory would have been most fresh 1 year after at the border when he told BCI that he and his family were all at Peterson Road the night of the 21st. They watched a fairy movie and went to bed at 1230 certainly puts his family awake and with him watching the movie during the time the murders were being committed. It's an alibi for all of them. An alibi they agreed to tell. Watching a movie they laughed and made fun of Jake for not remembering what they agree to say.

He's heard all this evidence now about what time Chris Sr texted Billy and that was to lure him outside about 11pm. Well now he says he went to bed at 10pm (which conveniently puts him home and in bed at 11pm, not out murdering 8 people and not watching a movie with the others)

When we have horrific things happen to us we usually remember some things. If I woke up and learned that 8 people in a family I knew were slaughtered the night before, I feel like I'd think omg I was doing xyz and my family/friends were being killed. Might even think if I would have been there I could have helped or what if I was doing X instead of Y. This was his self proclaimed best friend and also his nieces mother, a girl he said was like a sister and their family. I mean even thinking OMG my niece could have been in that house when it happened, I'm so glad she was with us and we were doing xyz. I feel like this is something you remember.

If Montana was a lie to cover for them being out murdering people, then I'd imagine the others that have now confessed also had the same lies about watching a movie. I find it odd George would have the same lie they did if he had no involvement or knowledge of it.

That was just one lie told of the many he was asked about and then didn't recall or wasn't sure.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

There was a prosecution exhibit that showed the amount of money spent by each member of the family over several years and the amount was well into the millions.

Thier take home pay was almost 2000.00 a week each. That is almost 16000.00 per month just between Jake and George working. 208000.00 per year. That does not include George buying junk cars and stripping them down and "scrapping" them. He said he made quite a bit of money doing that and mechanic work on the side.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

Many people can recall exactly what they were doing upon hearing about the assassination of JFK, day Elvis and/or Princess Diana died, OJ bronco chase, September 11 attacks, etc.

Interesting that GW4 doesn’t remember certain moments/events/important factors surrounding the murders of his supposedly “best friend” FR or HMR, someone he claimed to be like his “little sister.”

Ex: During interrogation, he told agents he went to bed the night of the murders at around 12:30 am. After watching a movie with his family, but during testimony he stated he went to bed around 10:00 pm the night of the murder.

Interesting how that works...

Narrative is in my opinion only...

 

[Dudly]

Do you think George is lying after hearing him testify for two days?

Canepa certainly could not break him. So maybe what he is saying is the truth.

JMO

She caught him in multiple lies. No reason to believe him over JW or AW.