OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#37

[Normrock]

I don’t think the suppressor issue is applicable here. They weren’t hunting bird or game.

They were hunting living, breathing people.

Didn't say that at all. Was saying that they can say they had suppressors for hunting. Even homemade illegal ones.

 

[KentuckyMama]

I definitely understand that it's not that big of a deal with some people. I live in KY. In this case however, I see why they did it. It matters none about parental consent in the eyes of the law. The day he turned 18, it was illegal. JMO

 

[Myland]

Didn't say that at all. Was saying that they can say they had suppressors for hunting. Even homemade illegal ones.

That’s just it, if they have good defense lawyers they will try to explain every piece of evidence away with everything thing they can. If good defense and not wanting to plea out they are not to go in and say ok you got us. Jmo I am not for the defense just saying how it works.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Actually WVA fan.

O/T I like WVA also. One of the best IMO.

 

[OsoTejano]

Your point is fair about being felon. I retract that. The father faced felonies and charges were dropped.


Pike County: Father accused in Rhoden massacre faced prior felonies

Also in 2011, Ross County court records show that both AW and GW3 faced 5th degree felony charges for receiving stolen property which resulted in convictions to 1st degree Misdemeanor receiving stolen property.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I'm actually not for DP that much. It is just the methodical cold bloodiness of this murder. This was a crime of pure calculating hate.
Read article below long involved, you will hate perp until end. Another proven scientific method debunked. We might execute a lot of people, but we are trying to get it right. Read second 2 links on Texas Forensic Science Committee.
Trial by Fire
Texas Forensic Science Commission - Wikipedia
TJB | FSC

Oklahoma comes in as having the highest rate per capita of executions. We are number 2 in overall executions and right behind Texas at 112. They tend to be on death row for less than a year before being executed.

I am not a proponent of the DP either. But this crime is different. The absolute brutality of killing a 16 year old child who was trying to hide behind his bed makes it worthy of the DP for me.

JMo

 

[Normrock]

Oklahoma comes in as having the highest rate per capita of executions. We are number 2 in overall executions and right behind Texas at 112. They tend to be on death row for less than a year before being executed.

I am not a proponent of the DP either. But this crime is different. The absolute brutality of killing a 16 year old child who was trying to hide behind his bed makes it worthy of the DP for me.

JMo

I used to live in Hickory OK pop. about 63. Also, married a gal from Guymon but shes long gone, but I got 3 great kids from her.

 

[Dudly]

Since you brought up age, as for last charge on Jake if true he started dating Hanna at 17 and Hanna 13, with both sets of parents approval, should they have stopped dating when he turned 18? Trying to think how a defense could present it. Jmo

I found this:
The age of consent in Ohio is 16, so 16- and 17-year-olds can legally engage in sexual conduct with an adult. However, an adult can still be convicted of statutory rape of a 16- or 17-year-old if he is in a position of power over the minor.Mar 15, 2018
And this:
16
This means that, generally speaking, someone who is 16 can consent to sex with an older person, no matter what the age difference is between them. Sex with someone under the age of 16 in Ohio is presumptively statutory rape. Ohio's age of consent law currently only applies to heterosexual sexual encounters.

 

[rsd1200]

Oklahoma comes in as having the highest rate per capita of executions. We are number 2 in overall executions and right behind Texas at 112. They tend to be on death row for less than a year before being executed.

I am not a proponent of the DP either. But this crime is different. The absolute brutality of killing a 16 year old child who was trying to hide behind his bed makes it worthy of the DP for me.

JMo

I would have to recuse myself from a death penalty jury, based on my beliefs, however, if the Ws are found guilty, and the DP is their fate, so be it.

 

[rsd1200]

I found this:
The age of consent in Ohio is 16, so 16- and 17-year-olds can legally engage in sexual conduct with an adult. However, an adult can still be convicted of statutory rape of a 16- or 17-year-old if he is in a position of power over the minor.Mar 15, 2018
And this:
16
This means that, generally speaking, someone who is 16 can consent to sex with an older person, no matter what the age difference is between them. Sex with someone under the age of 16 in Ohio is presumptively statutory rape. Ohio's age of consent law currently only applies to heterosexual sexual encounters.

Just to add;
Unlawful sexual conduct with a minor includes sexual conduct between a minor who is 13, 14, or 15, and a defendant who is 18 or older. It is a fourth degree felony if the defendant is four or more (but fewer than ten) years older than the victim, and is punishable by at least six months in jail (and up to 18 months in prison), a fine of up to $5,000, or both.

Ohio Statutory Rape Laws

 

[Myland]

I found this:
The age of consent in Ohio is 16, so 16- and 17-year-olds can legally engage in sexual conduct with an adult. However, an adult can still be convicted of statutory rape of a 16- or 17-year-old if he is in a position of power over the minor.Mar 15, 2018
And this:
16
This means that, generally speaking, someone who is 16 can consent to sex with an older person, no matter what the age difference is between them. Sex with someone under the age of 16 in Ohio is presumptively statutory rape. Ohio's age of consent law currently only applies to heterosexual sexual encounters.

Thank you I did not realize that. I understand then it is the law, but I still don’t agree with it in this case specifically. Jmo

 

[rsd1200]

I definitely understand that it's not that big of a deal with some people. I live in KY. In this case however, I see why they did it. It matters none about parental consent in the eyes of the law. The day he turned 18, it was illegal. JMO

Then all of those mandated reporters, who knew, should be held accountable too.

 

[Dudly]

I agree. Many threads ago I said the same thing. Because, even though rsd and I tried to find it back then and couldn't, I am still sure that JM said he saw Dana's legs from outside her bedroom and maybe I'm wrong but it was said in such a way that I got the impression she was on the floor. News story redacted? I don't know.

I remember that but I don't think it was ever from a reliable source. It was JM's wife who talked about him going in the house and backing out again, he never said anything about it. There was a rumor about her being on the couch with a pillow on her face, and one with her in bed with a pillow on her face. The preliminary Autopsy said she was found in bed, I think. Brain fog from info overload the last few days...

 

[Myland]

I would have to recuse myself from a death penalty jury, based on my beliefs, however, if the Ws are found guilty, and the DP is their fate, so be it.

I don’t disagree with the death penalty, but I could never be one of the people who pulls the switch. Jmo

 

[Normrock]

Just to add;
Unlawful sexual conduct with a minor includes sexual conduct between a minor who is 13, 14, or 15, and a defendant who is 18 or older. It is a fourth degree felony if the defendant is four or more (but fewer than ten) years older than the victim, and is punishable by at least six months in jail (and up to 18 months in prison), a fine of up to $5,000, or both.

Ohio Statutory Rape Laws

When Both Parties Are Minors: The “Romeo and Juliet” Exception
Named after Shakespeare’s young lovers, “Romeo and Juliet” exceptions are intended to prevent serious criminal charges against teenagers who engage in consensual sex with others close to their own age. In Ohio, there is a Romeo and Juliet exemption for consensual sex between two minors who are at least 13 but younger than 18. (Ohio Rev. Code Ann. § 2907.04 (2018).)

And as mentioned above, the crime of unlawful sexual conduct with a minor carries reduced penalties when the victim is at least 13 but younger than 16 and the defendant is 18 or older and fewer than four years older than the minor. However, a conviction may nonetheless result in a fine, jail time, or both. (Ohio Rev. Code Ann. § 2907.04 (2018).)

 

[OsoTejano]

Fluff to me is some sort of cloth material. Since apparently all the W boys were mechanically inclined. It doesn't seem far fetched they made metal suppressors( cheap ones). A PVC one doesn't seem to me to hold up to 32 rounds ( even though I feel there were more than one weapon.) The soda bottle and oil filter ones seem to good for 1 to 2 shots max. How to make all the above suppressors are all over youtube and demonstrations of them too.

If they were using PVC pipe, I would be surprised unless they used something like a .22LR. There would be a good risk of something like a .223 blowing up the suppressor as the gas pressure at the muzzle would be pretty high. Lots of stuff that could go wrong even using steel pipe with those kind of pressures. Welds can break and the whole thing could come apart when firing a lot of shots in rapid succession. I would bet there was a bit of trial and error to get something that functioned before the murders.

 

[Soulmagent]

Snipped by me

Personally I think LE has Ws on audio/video discussing murders in which attorneys will be breaking down prosecutors door to plead out.

I believe this to be true as well

 

[Dudly]

Random thoughts:

I have read several times on here that some of the Wagners had been convicted of felonies. I don't believe that to be true though as there were no charges brought forth for being a felon in possession of a firearm. Perhaps they were charged with a felony offense at one time but were convicted of a misdemeanor, but that does not make them a felon unless they were actually adjudicated guilty of a felon.

Pot Farm. A farm to me would consist of an outdoor grow, but these were indoor grows as far as I read. And on more than one occasion the powers to be stated COMMERCIAL GROW operation. I see no reason for LE to lie about that fact.

As far as blaming the victims, I don't think being honest about the victims is wrong. The fact that they had so many violent incidents with other people throughout their community, a verifiable conviction for domestic violence, more than one protection order, and even a school suspension or expulsion for the one minor, are facts that are not to be ignored. You can not make saints out of them just because they were murdered. It is not blaming them but perhaps giving a true picture of the victims. I am assuming even more will come out about this family if and when this comes to trial.

I've also read about some of the earlier media coverage where people were not happy with how the community was described. Like it or not, for the vast amount of people that have never been to the Appalachia region, it did give an honest view of what they saw. What is considered an excessive amount of cigarette smokers, illegal drug usage, obesity, teenage mothers , lack of education, poverty .... all can be confirmed by looking at various census and other reports. It does not print a pretty picture, but does not make it untrue. Why paint the community for what it is not? That is not responsible journalism. It helps describe the area and its inhabitants. The beautiful scenes of rolling hills, large pastures, were described as well, as should have been. Likewise, the properties that were full of trash and junk could not be ignored just because it would be considered victim bashing by some. It is what it is.

BBM

The things you mention may not be the norm where you live. Those things ARE the norm in that area. Appalachia is almost like a different country in how they live. People that stop in for a day and try to get people to talk about things they do not want to talk about does not get a fair view of life in the area. The locals do not trust outsiders to begin with. Those people likely think the way you live is not normal...

 

[KentuckyMama]

Then all of those mandated reporters, who knew, should be held accountable too.

Agreed.

 

[WalkTall]

It may have had a meaning to the shooter. We may never know if it meant anything special.

Using a suppressor often blocks the front sight on a pistol. The shooter might compensate by firing multiple rounds to be certain of inflicting a fatal wound.