OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#38

[Charliegizmo49]

I didn't question if BJM had anyone with her. That was document day one. I asked if JM had someone with him.

Gotcha. There are still so many moving parts to these murders we don’t know. I take nothing personally. In fact others opinions and posts make me think.

I am certain of another thing, my elderly aunt who cared for some of these folks is firm in her understanding that locals are relieved by the arrests. They are also very frightened and guarded in part to the unanswered status of the cousins death.

 

[Trudie]

It is possible that with 6 proceedings there will be some tactical exposure if the evidence during motion hearings. Especially if the grannies are tried first. Those should be pretty simple as compared to the death penalty cases. And in fact it just might make one of the Waggie 4 think long and hard about cutting a. Deal.

Everything now is prosecutorial strategy.

Everything. But I do believe more people had been warned to stay away that night. And I do believe that as many times as I’ve seen JOHN DOE named in charges, in serious cases it is often a place holder for a CI that might back out or someone LE might charge. And I know what DEWine said. But I believe it is a strong possibility.

I think the charges against the grannies are BS, scare tactics, nothing savvy legal teams can’t reduce to almost nothing.

As far as FW, her charges could be an effort to confirm the informant’s info.

 

[Trudie]

Gotcha. There are still so many moving parts to these murders we don’t know. I take nothing personally. In fact others opinions and posts make me think.

I am certain of another thing, my elderly aunt who cared for some of these folks is firm in her understanding that locals are relieved by the arrests. They are also very frightened and guarded in part to the unanswered status of the cousins death.

With this so lengthy, it’s difficult to recall every minute detail. Even initial drive my brain into frenzy some days. I have to stop and think to whom they belong.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Do you think RW has vacated the farm or do you mean if she’s the informant, she wouldn’t be living there, with her mom knowing......

Per the informant, it’s quite possible “Doe” didn’t reach out to LE. Perhaps LE made initial contact, thereby scaring him or her. And, it’s possible the person was terrified there’d be more killings & went to LE.

Again, I just don’t see any of the 4 discussing the murders of eight in front of a housekeeper or farm laborer.

My opinion differs from many regarding FW. I don’t for one moment believe she knew of the plan beforehand. It’s interesting she’s quoted as saying “Jake had nothing to do with this”, in a couple articles. I think she adores him & would try to help him gain custody only to prevent things from going to the nth degree.

It’s very possible RW is the source and cut a deal for her mother. I’m not ready to be firm in my opinion on that. However deal or not if I was her and was the informant or not, I would be terrified to sleep without an armed guard.

People like FW always find a way.

If an employee accidentally found something or heard just a snippet of conversation LE could have had warrants and wires throughout that farm.

I think this is the most likely Case. I believe it took time to get recordings and follow the information LE heard.

And my gut also tells me all sides are monitoring every blog, forum and social media possible.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I think the charges against the grannies are BS, scare tactics, nothing savvy legal teams can’t reduce to almost nothing.

As far as FW, her charges could be an effort to confirm the informant’s info.

Could be. But my gut says at least FW was much more involved. Time will certainly tell.

 

[Trudie]

It’s very possible RW is the source and cut a deal for her mother. I’m not ready to be firm in my opinion on that. However deal or not if I was her and was the informant or not, I would be terrified to sleep without an armed guard.

People like FW always find a way.

If an employee accidentally found something or heard just a snippet of conversation LE could have had warrants and wires throughout that farm.

I think this is the most likely Case. I believe it took time to get recordings and follow the information LE heard.

And my gut also tells me all sides are monitoring every blog, forum and social media possible.

RW, IMO, had good reason to act as an informant. Her father has passed, her mother is elderly. There’s a sizable estate at risk. Even with a trust, at some point in time, it would need to be disbursed to heirs. Assuming it’s left to the three kids of FW, civil suits would be placed against Billy’s share, creating a huge mess for R & BW.
I’m guessing the trust has been amended to exclude BW.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I want to share my opinion about AW and FW.

IT IS A COmmon belief that men often choose to marry women with similar traits as their mothers.


I believe this is the case here.

And I also believe that for many years AW and FW ran the others lives through their joint qualities and efforts.

I think they fed off each other. Yes there may be conflict that is part of the evidence.

But each shared their most important although demented plans and schemes. My opin

 

[Charliegizmo49]

RW, IMO, had good reason to act as an informant. Her father has passed, her mother is elderly. There’s a sizable estate at risk. Even with a trust, at some point in time, it would need to be disbursed to heirs. Assuming it’s left to the three kids of FW, civil suits would be placed against Billy’s share, creating a huge mess for R & BW.
I’m guessing the trust has been amended to exclude BW.

Maybe maybe not. His portion could be designated to grandchildren. Depends on the Trust and terms.

But with a business of FW type and if she had competent attorneys there should be perhaps an umbrella insurance policy. And thru litigation it could be construed by the right judge to include intentional or unintentional criminal activity. Who knows. Imo.

And and if I were Rhodens I wouldn’t be hiring local legal talent.

 

[Trudie]

Could be. But my gut says at least FW was much more involved. Time will certainly tell.

It just seems to me BW/AW always lived on the wrong side of the law & FW likely lived in a state of concern wondering what would eventually become of them & their kids. Bobby & RW, it appears, have been successful & lived as law abiding citizens.

FW is an intelligent, shrewd business woman. She didn’t get where she’s at financially any other way. Her 100+ land contracts illustrate her savinness. No one forced anyone to enter into contractual land agreements with her. Its easy for people fincacially struggling, day to day, to dislike her. And, in the course of any biz, there’s always disgruntled people that feel they were “done wrong”.

I’ve followed a lot of cases & it seems 99.9% of parents go to the extreme to protect their children. Most proclaim innocence despite crystal clear evidence to the contrary.

 

[Trudie]

Maybe maybe not. His portion could be designated to grandchildren. Depends on the Trust and terms.

But with a business of FW type and if she had competent attorneys there should be perhaps an umbrella insurance policy.

And and if I were Rhodens I wouldn’t be hiring local legal talent.

Maybe maybe not. His portion could be designated to grandchildren. Depends on the Trust and terms.

But with a business of FW type and if she had competent attorneys there should be perhaps an umbrella insurance policy. And thru litigation it could be construed by the right judge to include intentional or unintentional criminal activity. Who knows. Imo.

And and if I were Rhodens I wouldn’t be hiring local legal talent.

I agree. We don’t know the terms of the trust. I think it’s probably written to exclude the liquidation of the farm, keeping it intact for generations to come. It seems reasonable to think FW would assume it might remain revenue producing, providing income for those with enough moxie to actually work the farm.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I agree. We don’t know the terms of the trust. I think it’s probably written to exclude the liquidation of the farm, keeping it intact for generations to come. It seems reasonable to think FW would assume it might remain revenue producing, providing income for those with enough moxie to actually work the farm.

You’re getting into the law of perpetuity and I avoid it. So it’s all a possibility. There are properties in LLC’s as well and those are harder to pierce. So I’ll leave that one to those smarter than me.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Since I just read COURT TV is Coming back, I bet they will be covering these trials.

ROB JUNK IS GOING TO NEED A MUCH BIGGER COURTROOM.

 

[Trudie]

You’re getting into the law of perpetuity and I avoid it. So it’s all a possibility. There are properties in LLC’s as well and those are harder to pierce. So I’ll leave that one to those smarter than me.

You’re right!

All MOO, of course. FW seems to me to be the type wanting the farm to exist forever, hence, a perpetual trust. It’s really a very popular instrument & it avoids putting future generations on “easy street, something many elderly wish to avoid.
A perpetual trust (if one is in place) affords FW the opportunity to control HER farm, even in death.

 

[Trudie]

Since I just read COURT TV is Coming back, I bet they will be covering these trials.

ROB JUNK IS GOING TO NEED A MUCH BIGGER COURTROOM.

This is the best news. When? Where? TIA

 

[Betty P]

Since I just read COURT TV is Coming back, I bet they will be covering these trials.

ROB JUNK IS GOING TO NEED A MUCH BIGGER COURTROOM.

Well, that would be nice. I've kind of gotten used to the Pike County courtroom, but they will probably take the trials elsewhere. We'll know more likely after the first of the year.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Betty,

In your opinion only, how do you believe Alaska plays into all of the murders? Could that have been a motivating factors? If the Wagner’s wanted to move to Alaska, there was no way in heck they were ever gonna go without the two minor children? So once GW gained custody of his son, is it possible the W’s thought that they could bully Hanna into signing off her rights and when she didn’t, they murdered all of them in order to get Sophia and move to Alaska in the upcoming year? Probably not. But I do wonder if that’s a factor anywhere. JMO

I know you asked Betty but I wanted to add my 2 cents.

I think that pipe dream of moving to Alaska played a big part in it. They watched a little too much of Life Below Zero and dreamed of moving to Alaska, living off the land, chopping their own wood and living free of any mortgages or utility bills. Living free and letting the land provide for them.

I think that dream was in place long before JW and HR split up. But it hit a snag when HR walked out. Maybe she didn't want to leave her own family for a 4000 mile trek to a "maybe we can make it". And she sure as heck wasn't going to let her daughter go without her.

And JW sure as heck wasn't going to leave HR behind to write him off forever and maybe marry another man. Like I said, if he couldn't have her no one could.

I think that dream of Alaska was how he sucked in his parents and his brother. "I am not going to Alaska without my daughter." So they all agreed the only solution was to kill HR. But they knew if they killed HR there was no where to run and nowhere to hide from CR1, FR and KR. So they had to kill them all.

But when they got to Alaska that dream turned to a nightmare because the one thing they didn't count on was how much work it is to live that Alaskan dream. And we have no proof any of them are workaholics or that they were even capable of holding down a job for longer than a few months.

JMO

 

[Trudie]

I know you asked Betty but I wanted to add my 2 cents.

I think that pipe dream of moving to Alaska played a big part in it. They watched a little too much of Life Below Zero and dreamed of moving to Alaska, living off the land, chopping their own wood and living free of any mortgages or utility bills. Living free and letting the land provide for them.

I think that dream was in place long before JW and HR split up. But it hit a snag when HR walked out. Maybe she didn't want to leave her own family for a 4000 mile trek to a "maybe we can make it". And she sure as heck wasn't going to let her daughter go without her.

And JW sure as heck wasn't going to leave HR behind to write him off forever and maybe marry another man. Like I said, if he couldn't have her no one could.

I think that dream of Alaska was how he sucked in his parents and his brother. "I am not going to Alaska without my daughter." So they all agreed the only solution was to kill HR. But they knew if they killed HR there was no where to run and nowhere to hide from CR1, FR and KR. So they had to kill them all.

But when they got to Alaska that dream turned to a nightmare because the one thing they didn't count on was how much work it is to live that Alaskan dream. And we have no proof any of them are workaholics or that they were even capable of holding down a job for longer than a few months.

JMO

Good points. In my mind, I never could decide if all four truly wanted to move. But, the family that murders together, sticks together, I suppose.

Like your last paragraph.....the work required, had to prove daunting to them.

Do we know why, upon returning to OH, why they didn’t move to the Flying W?

 

[rsd1200]

Good poi

Good points. In my mind, I never could decide if all four truly wanted to move. But, the family that murders together, sticks together, I suppose.

Like your last paragraph.....the work required, had to prove daunting to them.

Do we know why, upon returning to OH, they didn’t move to the Flying W?

Bbm
I think they moved into AWs father's house. If memory serves.

 

[Trudie]

Bbm
I think they moved into AWs father's house. If memory serves.

News reports are so conflicting. A few stated they were renting and I did hear they moved to a house her dad owned at one time. With money tight, I thought they’d end up with ‘Fred.

I wonder if they wanted to avoid Flying W, out of paranoia or if they were asked by FW to live elsewhere. Because, at the time of their return they were most definitely suspected of the most horrific crime in Ohio history.

RW, With her dog breeding operation, possibly would not want 4 murderers living on site. Especially, if she might be “Doe”.

 

[rigsby2]

I know you asked Betty but I wanted to add my 2 cents.

I think that pipe dream of moving to Alaska played a big part in it. They watched a little too much of Life Below Zero and dreamed of moving to Alaska, living off the land, chopping their own wood and living free of any mortgages or utility bills. Living free and letting the land provide for them.

I think that dream was in place long before JW and HR split up. But it hit a snag when HR walked out. Maybe she didn't want to leave her own family for a 4000 mile trek to a "maybe we can make it". And she sure as heck wasn't going to let her daughter go without her.

And JW sure as heck wasn't going to leave HR behind to write him off forever and maybe marry another man. Like I said, if he couldn't have her no one could.

I think that dream of Alaska was how he sucked in his parents and his brother. "I am not going to Alaska without my daughter." So they all agreed the only solution was to kill HR. But they knew if they killed HR there was no where to run and nowhere to hide from CR1, FR and KR. So they had to kill them all.

But when they got to Alaska that dream turned to a nightmare because the one thing they didn't count on was how much work it is to live that Alaskan dream. And we have no proof any of them are workaholics or that they were even capable of holding down a job for longer than a few months.

JMO

I also think AW was surrounded by boys and she wanted her grandaughter all to herself, not share with DR certainly.

I'm a little slow on this, can someone please tell me when the forged custody papers were done? Do you think it was their A plan-- try to steal her with false papers, and B plan was kill the family if papers didn't work?