OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#38

[rsd1200]

That's awful lot of clothing.

Probably built up over time, then couldn't pay their bill. CC companies will let it pile up until folks just quit paying anything at all, stop answering the phone, and go into hiding.

 

[kaaky]

I’ve considered JW possibly started tossing comments around “I’m gonna kill HR”, “ gonna have to kill her to get my kid”, eventually AW thought he might actually do something & mess up, so the Family Plan was hatched. IMO, she is the brain of the 4.

I think JW was probably ok with the arrangement that HMR and him had. One week on One week off. I think it was more Angela wanting the little girl, because she didn't have a girl of her own and she see SW as her girl she never had. I think she was pushing JW to get HMR to sign SW over to him so she could raise SW.... I think she was the Mastermind of the entire planning of the murders. She had to get her mother to forge the paperwork, she had to get rid of HMR and her parents so they wouldn't gain custody of SW. HMR and JW was never married so CR1 and DR could had possibly gotten SW, if something just happened to HMR. I think the others was killed to make sure they would not figure out who killed the others and maybe come after them. This story is not going to just be a simple plan and murder, it's going to be things that people never thought of..... I think AW sent GW3 to talk to CR1, about getting HMR to sign over custody, I think they had word and possibly ended up in a fight. I think GW4 didn't take to well to someone fighting with his daddy, so he got upset. I think JW was more upset with HMR moving on and being with other guys than he was the custody issue. So that is how she got them all to go alone with the plan. This is JMO......

 

[kaaky]

rsd~I so agree with this post. And as far as the CI, I’m torn between RW/RAW. I’m probably wrong. For now tho, my mind can’t wrap around the 4 discussing 8 murders in front of anyone, other than family. In fact, I’ve entertained thoughts along the line of them talking about their dirty deeds in a barn, then realizing there was a tenant or a laborer within earshot, that person prob’ would’ve gone missing. As in forever.

If, just IF, the CI is RAW, I can see where not only morally he would report to LE but also, with his mom elderly, his dad deceased, there could possibly be concerns his mom might liquidate, hire lawyers and lose everything. As far as RW (or anyone), it’s best to continue on “normally”, (if RW is CI), not giving any indication something is amiss.

Idk, pure speculation on my part, but a couple of the 4 appear to me as tho they might have “temper” issues.
So, tiptoe on the ole eggshells or get the heck away.

The CI that the prosecution has is being very well protected. This witness is a very important piece of the so called puzzle. I would not think the CI has been in the court room due to prosecution not wanting to take a chance till they testify. Especially not at all the their hearings they have had, like RW has been, because more than likely the 4 would know who it is. RW has been at all of them. I do not believe she is the CI and RAW I don't think he is very close to GW3 and his family, so I don't see them talking in front of him. I think the CI will be the least expected person anyone thinks of. Thinking outside of the box will probably be were the answer is. JMO

 

[rsd1200]

The CI that the prosecution has is being very well protected. This witness is a very important piece of the so called puzzle. I would not think the CI has been in the court room due to prosecution not wanting to take a chance till they testify. Especially not at all the their hearings they have had, like RW has been, because more than likely the 4 would know who it is. RW has been at all of them. I do not believe she is the CI and RAW I don't think he is very close to GW3 and his family, so I don't see them talking in front of him. I think the CI will be the least expected person anyone thinks of. Thinking outside of the box will probably be were the answer is. JMO

Interesting. It could be one of the six. Normally a CI is someone who has decided to work with LE, in exchange for something. Sometimes that something is a reduced sentence. Sometimes it is payment.

 

[rsd1200]

The CI that the prosecution has is being very well protected. This witness is a very important piece of the so called puzzle. I would not think the CI has been in the court room due to prosecution not wanting to take a chance till they testify. Especially not at all the their hearings they have had, like RW has been, because more than likely the 4 would know who it is. RW has been at all of them. I do not believe she is the CI and RAW I don't think he is very close to GW3 and his family, so I don't see them talking in front of him. I think the CI will be the least expected person anyone thinks of. Thinking outside of the box will probably be were the answer is. JMO

Interesting. It could be one of the six. Normally a CI is someone who has decided to work with LE, in exchange for something. Sometimes that something is a reduced sentence. Sometimes it is payment.

 

[rsd1200]

The CI that the prosecution has is being very well protected. This witness is a very important piece of the so called puzzle. I would not think the CI has been in the court room due to prosecution not wanting to take a chance till they testify. Especially not at all the their hearings they have had, like RW has been, because more than likely the 4 would know who it is. RW has been at all of them. I do not believe she is the CI and RAW I don't think he is very close to GW3 and his family, so I don't see them talking in front of him. I think the CI will be the least expected person anyone thinks of. Thinking outside of the box will probably be were the answer is. JMO

Interesting. It could be one of the six. Normally a CI is someone who has decided to work with LE, in exchange for something. Sometimes that something is a reduced sentence. Sometimes it is payment.

 

[kaaky]

Interesting. It could be one of the six. Normally a CI is someone who has decided to work with LE, in exchange for something. Sometimes that something is a reduced sentence. Sometimes it is payment.

Exactly what I am thinking. JMO

 

[Charliegizmo49]

If all bring the constitutionality of the death penalty to the table four separate motions and especially 4 very different reasons, it may take years to take those cases all the way to SCOTUS.

I suppose the Prosecutors might be able to combine the 4 for the death penalty issue alone. Sort of sever it from the main case and litigate it as time passes.

It would not surprise me to learn that the 4 defendants are cooperating on the defense in a limited manner. But the DP issue might slow it down and delay the case in chief.

And the defense in all the cases might also be trying to make everything so expensive so Pike County and Ohio will take pleas from each. I read that the Ohio Legislature is giving $100 k to prosecute, but that will not last long.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I think JW was probably ok with the arrangement that HMR and him had. One week on One week off. I think it was more Angela wanting the little girl, because she didn't have a girl of her own and she see SW as her girl she never had. I think she was pushing JW to get HMR to sign SW over to him so she could raise SW.... I think she was the Mastermind of the entire planning of the murders. She had to get her mother to forge the paperwork, she had to get rid of HMR and her parents so they wouldn't gain custody of SW. HMR and JW was never married so CR1 and DR could had possibly gotten SW, if something just happened to HMR. I think the others was killed to make sure they would not figure out who killed the others and maybe come after them. This story is not going to just be a simple plan and murder, it's going to be things that people never thought of..... I think AW sent GW3 to talk to CR1, about getting HMR to sign over custody, I think they had word and possibly ended up in a fight. I think GW4 didn't take to well to someone fighting with his daddy, so he got upset. I think JW was more upset with HMR moving on and being with other guys than he was the custody issue. So that is how she got them all to go alone with the plan. This is JMO......

For whatever reason, my intuition is screaming this is not their first rodeo with killing. All 4 may not have killed others together, but I believe they may have done some other pretty serious crimes togethervas teams. Perhaps for income.

Long haul truckers, Jake and his brother could have done anything anywhere they happen to be.

And I believe they had experience.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Adding to my thoughts. If the W4's were caught exiting Union Hill Rd, encountered LE and a shoot out occurred. Would anyone be questioning their lives, as constitutionally protected, if they were shot leaving the scene with weapons drawn? Hmmm, so the trick to avoiding the DP is to escape arrest for 2 years and then play on the sympathies of the court?

My belief that the prosecution will take it all the way. They have to. The people of Ihio would be angry if they fail in that regard. This crime was so over the top that the DP HAS TO STAY.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Adding to my thoughts. If the W4's were caught exiting Union Hill Rd, encountered LE and a shoot out occurred. Would anyone be questioning their lives, as constitutionally protected, if they were shot leaving the scene with weapons drawn? Hmmm, so the trick to avoiding the DP is to escape arrest for 2 years and then play on the sympathies of the court?

 

[Dudly]

The CI that the prosecution has is being very well protected. This witness is a very important piece of the so called puzzle. I would not think the CI has been in the court room due to prosecution not wanting to take a chance till they testify. Especially not at all the their hearings they have had, like RW has been, because more than likely the 4 would know who it is. RW has been at all of them. I do not believe she is the CI and RAW I don't think he is very close to GW3 and his family, so I don't see them talking in front of him. I think the CI will be the least expected person anyone thinks of. Thinking outside of the box will probably be were the answer is. JMO

Remember that the term "Confidential Informant" has not been used by DeWine or LE. The term "source" got morphed into "informant" by posters here. A "source" could be an anonymous phone call, a text message, a recording, etc.. It could also be a person who provides information to LE on the express or guarantee of anonymity. If it is the latter, it could be anyone and we may never find out who it is...

 

[MittenScarpetta]

And mitten do you find it a coincidence the sheriff misconduct allegations were filed the same day as AW filings with the court. So as to possibly divert attention away from AW?


I was surprised that her attorney chose to file to remove the death penalty. That means that motion fight begins prior to trial. Could it also mean that the prosecution had been approached to take it off the table and refused? If that’s the case it might mean that they have plenty of evidence and do not need anyone to roll on the other 3 defendants.

Or perhaps a d als been mad to keep FW FROM MURDER CHARGES AND WHILE SHES GOING TO TRIAL THE PROSECUTORS could have already agr ed to no jail time.

I’m not sure what I think about the misconduct charges. Those charges could even stem from the separate June ordeal where Reader and his team killed an innocent man (Barry Leeth) while trying to apprehend Brian Arthur (who was also killed). There’s a lot of possibilities when it comes to the misconduct charges. I need to see what the allegations are and have more info before I decide in my own mind if they’re related to the Rhoden/Gilley case. All JMO.

 

[Dudly]

I think JW was probably ok with the arrangement that HMR and him had. One week on One week off. I think it was more Angela wanting the little girl, because she didn't have a girl of her own and she see SW as her girl she never had. I think she was pushing JW to get HMR to sign SW over to him so she could raise SW.... I think she was the Mastermind of the entire planning of the murders. She had to get her mother to forge the paperwork, she had to get rid of HMR and her parents so they wouldn't gain custody of SW. HMR and JW was never married so CR1 and DR could had possibly gotten SW, if something just happened to HMR. I think the others was killed to make sure they would not figure out who killed the others and maybe come after them. This story is not going to just be a simple plan and murder, it's going to be things that people never thought of..... I think AW sent GW3 to talk to CR1, about getting HMR to sign over custody, I think they had word and possibly ended up in a fight. I think GW4 didn't take to well to someone fighting with his daddy, so he got upset. I think JW was more upset with HMR moving on and being with other guys than he was the custody issue. So that is how she got them all to go alone with the plan. This is JMO......

The thing with the "arrangement" between JW and HMR is that we will only know one side. Had he ever paid support on a regular basis? Did he owe her thousands in back support? JW said he quit his truck driving job, did he even have an income? Was his not having a regular job why HMR called it quits because he couldn't help support her and SW? Is it true he was hitting HMR?
Everything about this case has SO many possibilities given the little info known and so much of it one sided. We can't ask HMR or any of he immediate family what was going on or why they did certain things...

 

[Dudly]

I’m not sure what I think about the misconduct charges. Those charges could even stem from the separate June ordeal where Reader and his team killed an innocent man (Barry Leeth) while trying to apprehend Brian Arthur (who was also killed). There’s a lot of possibilities when it comes to the misconduct charges. I need to see what the allegations are and have more info before I decide in my own mind if they’re related to the Rhoden/Gilley case. All JMO.

My thought is misuse of funds. He may have used excess funds for something and used it for something else.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

My thought is misuse of funds. He may have used excess funds for something and used it for something else.

The previous sheriff applied for and was awarded a grant. READER ordered and paid for something outside of what the terms of the grant were intended. Happens a lot.

But the Ohio auditors office and Junk said they were not aware and this anonymous complaint Came out of left field.

It very could be a friend or lawyer of Waggies starting a series of discrediting complaints/ pr to discredit LE throughout the Waggie prosecution. I’ve seen it in politics and this isn’t much difference. There will me more I’m sure.

It’s a nasty tactic and someone in that process had to be the leak to pass it on. Another poster said 2-4 people had filed numerous complaints against the Sheriff since his election. It’s a diversionary tactic to keep his mind off the Waggie Case or to get so bad that he will not be able to testify. I’m certain the prosecution expects this and is prepared to file motions for who ever is or will become a target in the future. Usually they ask a judge to preclude any questioning outside the case before the court. If they get that from the court the game fades away but it can force the person(s) to just attack from another angle.

If the prosecutors want it to stop altogether now would be a very good time to bring in BCI and track it down.

Not a positive thing to happenbut neither is the sight of BCI KNOCKING at your door when they find the troublemaker.

 

[IceIce9]

My belief that the prosecution will take it all the way. They have to. The people of Ihio would be angry if they fail in that regard. This crime was so over the top that the DP HAS TO STAY.

I think so too. This crime is so heinous, so premeditated, and has received an incredible amount of publicity. Definitely the highest profile case Ohio has ever had.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I don't hold parents accountable for children's actions, who are 18 and older, especially those not living with them, but, as difficult as it would be, I'd have to tell the truth if pulled in front of a grand jury. Her son has a history. While it was not a violent history, it is a history. AW has a history too. While it's not a major felony, and it appears it was only one, it's still a felony. G3 even flashed a firearm at someone in a road rage incident. I'd have to answer truthfully, if under oath. Even if FW just lied, and told LE that they were with her the night of the 21st/morning of 22nd, that's unacceptable to me, no matter a mother's love. FW has no charges for forgery. IIRC Reader said very early on, that people were lying to them and they knew so.

While it was not a violent history,
G3 even flashed a firearm at someone in a road rage incident.
BBM

Pulling a gun on someone in a road rage incident is a violent history.

Billy could have shot and killed whoever he pulled the gun on. That is why it is a crime to point a gun and threaten someone. That is also why road rage is a crime. Given what we know about Billy now it is only by the grace of God that man he pointed the gun at is still alive.

I would lay money on Fred knowing that Billy was capable of killing someone. A mother always knows if her child is capable of violent behavior no matter how much she tries to deny it to others. There are always signs, often from a very young age. The temper tantrums, the hurting siblings and pets. The lack of empathy for others.

I would lay money on Bobby and Robin knowing he was capable of it too. They might not have wanted to believe it because of the upheaval it would cause in their own lives, but I am betting that both or at least Bobby is relieved that Billy and crew is in jail. Him not showing up in court for any of them speaks volumes. The belief that Billy is capable of hurting or killing someone may be why Bobby elected to split with the family and move his own wife and kids out of harms way.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

If all bring the constitutionality of the death penalty to the table four separate motions and especially 4 very different reasons, it may take years to take those cases all the way to SCOTUS.

I suppose the Prosecutors might be able to combine the 4 for the death penalty issue alone. Sort of sever it from the main case and litigate it as time passes.

It would not surprise me to learn that the 4 defendants are cooperating on the defense in a limited manner. But the DP issue might slow it down and delay the case in chief.

And the defense in all the cases might also be trying to make everything so expensive so Pike County and Ohio will take pleas from each. I read that the Ohio Legislature is giving $100 k to prosecute, but that will not last long.

Asking to take the DP off the table could also be an admission of guilt. As in "I am guilty and I know I am going to be found guilty by the jury because the evidence is overwhelming but I don't want to die of lethal injection so please remove that possibility from the table".

IMO innocent people don't ask to have their sentence reduced before the case even goes to trial.

JMO

 

[Trudie]

Is it required for all to have a separate trial, or is it possible to have one trial and 4 separate juries? In my head, I see a domino affect of each one asking be in "street clothes" and "not wanting to be in shackles" for their trial. Frankly, that sounds extremely dangerous for the bailiffs/officials who are in the court room. Pandemonium could break out at any given moment....IMO not a safe scenario.
"Escape and revenge" has already been mentioned by prosecutors as a topic of one conversation.
Another great day of reading posts and sharing thoughts...good night.
ps..you're a Trooper, Trudie.

Most articles I’ve read claim separate trials are imperative since they are DP. It, my research reveals DP trials can include multiple defendants. Idk how such a decision would be made or ultimately, who makes it.