OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#38

[Trudie]

I’m not sure. We know of three people considered witnesses because they discovered the victims. So I’m wondering if those three are who the defense is trying to get juvenile records on. I think it’s unfair. Those 3 witnesses are also victims of this crime.

I think it is one or more of these three.
Hopefully, this motion is DENIED.
Always disgusting in trials where guilt is almost certain, for the witnesses to be ripped to shreds over irrelevant matters.
I’d be more interested in the juvie records of the 4.

 

[Trudie]

It’s a legal delaying tactics same that could be 4 case going never through 3-10 hearings and rulings and probably also used to increase the cost of the 4 trials.

If the others file as well that’s 4 different cases going as far as perhaps SCOTUS. IT CAN take time as a delaying tactic and can cost the State of Ohio a truckload of money.

Public Defenders are paid if they are in their office or at trial. But the State of Ohio is paying Prosecutors, public defenders, LE and maybe 50 support staff.

Pike county is getting some help from the legislature but they are going to need a heck of a lot more.

Admit it or not lawyers use this all the time in poor jurisdictions.

Expect more complaints against the prosecution team. This is going to look like any other court proceeding, but it will get nasty due to the characters involved.

....it never hurts to ask, right?
I’m so glad this was requested. Even if protocol, it makes me at least think AW is scared & has addressed her fear with her lawyer. And, maybe she knows she has no chance of getting out of this. Of course she may be thinking of her boys, hoping all DP will be off the table, per her request. We just don’t know.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

Does anyone have a link to the "fishing story"? When did it happen?

 

[Trudie]

How crazy is this, if the allegations are true.
AW fashions herself as some parental authority (based on wanting to raise SW) & that only she can properly raise a child, yet it appears she led her own children to LWOP or worse. I think she has a self-image issue, maybe.

Rather than AW jealous over the new trailer I wonder if her jealousy went much deeper. Maybe she felt the Rs to be a happy, content family. Perhaps she liked CR more than as a friend & his reconciliation with D irritated her.

 

[rsd1200]

One of the motions filed by AW’s lawyers states “disclosure of the juvenile records of plaintiff’s witnesses”.

Does anyone know what that means or have any input as to why the defense would want juvenile records of witnesses?

The prosecution has a witness, who may have, or probably has, a juvie history. That witness may also have an adult record. Said witness may also be the CI. However, the defense wants it known that this person has a record, and may use to attack their credibility. Most CIs have a reason that they assist LE. That's my take on it as a layperson.

 

[IceIce9]

I believe you are incorrect as to this being the highest profile case Ohio ever had. The Sam Shepard case was a much higher profile case as well as the federal court civil action for wrongful death and injury, an eleven-week trial, brought by the Kent State victims and their families against Governor Rhodes, the President of Kent State, and the National Guardsmen. I live in the 11th largest media market.
and there isn't coverage here. There was one little story on CNN about the arrests and nothing more. People around the country can not, and do not, relate to the victims of this crime.

I stand corrected I should have thought about it and realized that it wouldn’t have received the same amount of coverage nationally as Kent State. I lived in Ohio for both events (although I was only 10 years old for Kent State)

However, it is very difficult to compare the news impact of a 1970 news event (at the time) with a 2016 crime.

Back in 1970 all we had was the 6:00 pm and 11:00 pm news. And of course the afternoon newspaper.

Now we have 24 hour news channels, morning local and national news programs, noon news, 5 and/or 6 pm news, 10 and/or 11 pm news, all the news channel websites, local newspaper websites, twitter, Facebook, etc.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

The prosecution has a witness, who may have, or probably has, a juvie history. That witness may also have an adult record. Said witness may also be the CI. However, the defense wants it known that this person has a record, and may use to attack their credibility. Most CIs have a reason that they assist LE. That's my take on it as a layperson.

If that person had big adult record, they would not ask for the juvenile record.

Or that person is rather young. Say about or below JW's age. That's my guess.

ETA: when you think of it, it makes sense to have witnesses of HR's age. Some have a history.

It could be a very general request too. There could be several witnesses. Adult records are already available.

 

[IQuestion]

If there is a CI, I think it is RW. She needed to be at every hearing. Her absence would be a give away.

Also, does anyone think the W's home was bugged by LE and that the CI wore a wire?

Only if the wire looked like a big sparkly cross.
Sorry CHELLY, I couldn't resist. I sense something very naive, almost "elfin sprite?" in that it appears she has/had no life outside the FWFarms geography and operations...living a very plain and regimented life (caring for animals requires routines) ...staying away from the drama of her bro and AW. The only one I can think of who could "use the reward money" has already been mentioned....and the easiest crime to prove......

 

[rsd1200]

If there is a CI, I think it is RW. She needed to be at every hearing. Her absence would be a give away.

Also, does anyone think the W's home was bugged by LE and that the CI wore a wire?

Audio is common. Not hard to do and easily concealed, as long as they instruct the CI properly. The only skepticism I have with RW, is, would she be able to go about business as usual? Even if she told them she overheard, would she be able to pull off being a traitor? Wearing a wire is no small thing. I've wondered if it's FW. That woman looks like a woman of steel.

 

[rsd1200]

Can juvenile records be unsealed for a murder trial? I’m not familiar with how that all works but I thought once juvenile records were sealed, they remained sealed because the person was a child as the time a record occurred.

Yes. In this type of case, I do believe so. IANAL though.

 

[Trudie]

Audio is common. Not hard to do and easily concealed, as long as they instruct the CI properly. The only skepticism I have with RW, is, would she be able to go about business as usual? Even if she told them she overheard, would she be able to pull off being a traitor? Wearing a wire is no small thing. I've wondered if it's FW. That woman looks like a woman of steel.

Yup, it could be. After her GJ testimony, they may have laid the law down to her!
I think RW capable of going on as norm. As much as anyone.
I think once FW realized the 4 to be responsible for 8 murders, she confided to RW/RAW. Of course she was torn, conflicted, angry and every emotion known to man. Any mom/grandma would be.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I agree. I’ve posted that once news of the crime broke Fred & Bobby must’ve had an “OH OH” moment. And, the climate around G3 was “tiptoe”, lets you ire him.
I hesitate to judge based on appearances, but he looks to be the “explosive” type. His size alone is intimidating.
Many pages back I said Bobby’s absence in court does not speak volumes, it SCREAMS.
I just can’t hold the family responsible for G3s actions.
We all know how difficult it is to get “help” for someone.
I believe James Holmes mom made a few attempts to get him some help.
And, other than a few recently thwarted school shootings, most calls to LE about a “possible” crime are merely reports.
If I tell you I am going to rob the local convenient store tonight, you call LE & they visit me, I’m going to deny or tell them I was kidding.
Truthfully, I would not be surprised if Fred, too, finds relief in G3s arrest. Before his rage could again erupt.
I’m sure it saddens her the boys are involved & I'm guessing she places the blame squarely on their parents.

BBM
I just can’t hold the family responsible for G3s actions.

Let me make myself very clear here.

Bobby and his wife and children are victims of Billy and crew. They are victims because he and his family will have to go through embarrassment, pain, frustration and anger when these trials begin because the news media will be on him like butter on cornbread.

Ditto for Robin. She too is a victim who has had her life shattered because of the actions of Billy and crew.

Fred is not a victim. Fred knew exactly what she was doing when she lied to LE and the grand jury. Fred caused untold amount of pain to the victims families for years with her lies. If you do not believe she caused great pain to the victims families by lying for her son then go back and listen to Lenny's interviews.

Listen to the anguish, grief, rage and frustration in Lenny's voice as he talks about his dead daughter and grandchildren. The sheer anguish when he tries to defend his dead daughter from accusations of drug dealing. The anger and fear when he talks about his remaining daughter being dragged up out of bed at 3:00 AM to be taken to the police station for more questioning. The rage when he talks about his son being arrested and losing his job.

All of those unfair accusations about Dana, all that fear BobbyJ felt at being dragged down to the police station in the middle of the night, all that anger James had to go through when he was arrested and lost his job, every bit of that could have been avoided if Fred had just told the truth from the beginning.

So Fred is not a victim. Fred is a criminal and does not deserve our sympathy. Fred does not deserve anyone on here trying to defend her. Fred deserves jail time for her crimes.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

I’m not sure. We know of three people considered witnesses because they discovered the victims. So I’m wondering if those three are who the defense is trying to get juvenile records on. I think it’s unfair. Those 3 witnesses are also victims of this crime.

They will probably only be of use, if the witness has something to gain from their testimony. It's just part of trial.

 

[rsd1200]

Oh you’re gonna get raked over the coals for this one, lol.
Yup, it could be. After her GJ testimony, they may have laid the law down to her!

It would be difficult to go about business as usual, sit down to eat, have the little bro and fam over for dinner, and try to make small talk, hoping something about the murders would come up. Clean horse stalls, with them and, try to come up with a conversation; Soooo, made any brass catchers lately, little bro?

 

[Chelly]

]

The prosecution has a witness, who may have, or probably has, a juvie history. That witness may also have an adult record. Said witness may also be the CI. However, the defense wants it known that this person has a record, and may use to attack their credibility. Most CIs have a reason that they assist LE. That's my take on it as a layperson.

Excellent reasoning imo

 

[Trudie]

BBM
I just can’t hold the family responsible for G3s actions.

Let me make myself very clear here.

Bobby and his wife and children are victims of Billy and crew. They are victims because he and his family will have to go through embarrassment, pain, frustration and anger when these trials begin because the news media will be on him like butter on cornbread.

Ditto for Robin. She too is a victim who has had her life shattered because of the actions of Billy and crew.

Fred is not a victim. Fred knew exactly what she was doing when she lied to LE and the grand jury. Fred caused untold amount of pain to the victims families for years with her lies. If you do not believe she caused great pain to the victims families by lying for her son then go back and listen to Lenny's interviews.

Listen to the anguish, grief, rage and frustration in Lenny's voice as he talks about his dead daughter and grandchildren. The sheer anguish when he tries to defend his dead daughter from accusations of drug dealing. The anger and fear when he talks about his remaining daughter being dragged up out of bed at 3:00 AM to be taken to the police station for more questioning. The rage when he talks about his son being arrested and losing his job.

All of those unfair accusations about Dana, all that fear BobbyJ felt at being dragged down to the police station in the middle of the night, all that anger James had to go through when he was arrested and lost his job, every bit of that could have been avoided if Fred had just told the truth from the beginning.

So Fred is not a victim. Fred is a criminal and does not deserve our sympathy. Fred does not deserve anyone on here trying to defend her. Fred deserves jail time for her crimes.

JMO

Let me be clear, I see things differently.

 

[Trudie]

It would be difficult to go about business as usual, sit down to eat, have the little bro and fam over for dinner, and try to make small talk, hoping something about the murders would come up. Clean horse stalls, with them and, try to come up with a conversation; Soooo, made any brass catchers lately, little bro?

Maybe the CI wasn’t even orchestrated by LE. Maybe someone used their phone to record a convo, then took it to LE.

 

[IceIce9]

Then again, I know of folks who have accomplished home schooling very well with their kids, others, not so much. Usually it's not so much.

Right, I had a neighbor down the road who “homeschooled” his kids so they could work on the farm. There were several kids in the family and none of them even started kindergarten or first grade. He reasoned it would be better just to “homeschool” from the start rather than letting them go for few years and then pulling them out when they were old enough to do chores.

I doubt if there was a single book in that house, let alone textbooks.

 

[Trudie]

Right, I had a neighbor down the road who “homeschooled” his kids so they could work on the farm. There were several kids in the family and none of them even started kindergarten or first grade. He reasoned it would be better just to “homeschool” from the start rather than letting them go for s few years and then pulling them out when they were old enough to do chores.

I doubt if there was a single book in that house, let alone textbooks.

They were taught life skills! Hard work being foremost.
Today, things are so different.

Do we know if AW ever sent the boys to public school?

Media reports RN to be retired from teaching.

 

[IQuestion]

BBM
I just can’t hold the family responsible for G3s actions.

Let me make myself very clear here.

Bobby and his wife and children are victims of Billy and crew. They are victims because he and his family will have to go through embarrassment, pain, frustration and anger when these trials begin because the news media will be on him like butter on cornbread.

Ditto for Robin. She too is a victim who has had her life shattered because of the actions of Billy and crew.

Fred is not a victim. Fred knew exactly what she was doing when she lied to LE and the grand jury. Fred caused untold amount of pain to the victims families for years with her lies. If you do not believe she caused great pain to the victims families by lying for her son then go back and listen to Lenny's interviews.

Listen to the anguish, grief, rage and frustration in Lenny's voice as he talks about his dead daughter and grandchildren. The sheer anguish when he tries to defend his dead daughter from accusations of drug dealing. The anger and fear when he talks about his remaining daughter being dragged up out of bed at 3:00 AM to be taken to the police station for more questioning. The rage when he talks about his son being arrested and losing his job.

All of those unfair accusations about Dana, all that fear BobbyJ felt at being dragged down to the police station in the middle of the night, all that anger James had to go through when he was arrested and lost his job, every bit of that could have been avoided if Fred had just told the truth from the beginning.

So Fred is not a victim. Fred is a criminal and does not deserve our sympathy. Fred does not deserve anyone on here trying to defend her. Fred deserves jail time for her crimes.

JMO

RAISIN...absolutely wonderful!!