OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#41

[Betty P]

First, there is no transparency withinOhio's grand jury process. Theproceedings, witnesses, and materials are entirely secret. Secrecy is guaranteed by the Ohio Rules of Criminal Procedure, Rule 6, and requires no record be made of deliberations other than the final vote filed with the indictment.May 31, 2015

IANAL, but that's what I've always read about GJ proceedings. They're secret. That's what the prosecutor said at FW's hearing, too. GJ's are protected because they don't determine guilt or innocence, they only recommend whether to proceed with charges. Prosecutors are not bound to follow a GJ recommendation.

https://www.acluohio.org/ohio-grand-juries-faq

There are a variety of justifications for this secrecy. One is to ensure the safety of the witnesses and grand jury members. The protection of secrecy allows both members of the grand jury and testifying witnesses the ability to be candid. Another is to avoid tipping off the defendant about the pending investigation against them. A third justification is that secrecy may protect defendants who are not indicted from being subject to slander or speculative accusations.

That said, while GJ proceedings are not made public, it might be allowed for a defendant to view the transcript of their own individual testimony. Prosecutor Canepa said in FW's hearing the other day that they usually don't allow that. We'll see how the judge rules in a couple of weeks.

 

[Loomis124]

Let's check rsd1200's transcript. Either way, they might think they can determine something from the transcripts.

Transcripts yes.

 

[OhioBlues]

Well, most Latinos are not usually on the tall side. JW is 6' 01". The one that I saw, of JW, was of him and S, and it was posted on May 9th, 2016. If screenshots of his old FB are allowed, I can upload. His hair was very dark, and curly. A woman asked if he'd colored it and he said, "Yes, a few weeks ago. Was supposed to be dark brown But it got turned black. " GW4's hair, I'd always thought, was darker than JW's anyway, so I didn't notice him as much.

I don't know if they are allowed on the forum but I would love to see it.

 

[Loomis124]

A good opportunity to remind everyone - if you see a violation of Websleuth rules/TOS, just alert the mods, they'll take care of it. And we all have to remember to use JMO or MOO, etc. to indicate when we're talking about a theory or our own speculation. I forget sometimes, too.

Betty, what is it called when a poster is supposed to back up with a news article? TY

 

[Sillybilly]

Yes it’s both audio and video recorded, typically.

@MittenScarpetta ... do we have a link to support that statement?

 

[Betty P]

Can you please link your reference? TY

Here it is. I've been looking for this. It's helpful

http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/LegalResources/Rules/criminal/CriminalProcedure.pdf

Formatting is messed up, but here's the text. It's public info

Secrecy of proceedings and disclosure.

Deliberations of the grand jury and the vote of any grand juror shall not be disclosed. Disclosure of other matters occurring before the grand jury may be made to the prosecuting attorney for use in the performance of his duties. A grand juror, prosecuting attorney, interpreter, stenographer, operator of a recording device, or typist who transcribes recorded testimony, may disclose matters occurring before the grand jury,
other than the deliberations of a grand jury or the vote of a grand juror, but may disclose such
matters only when so directed by the court preliminary to or in connection with a judicial
proceeding, or when permitted by the court at the request of the defendant upon a
showing that grounds may exist for a motion to dismiss the indictment because of matters occurring before the
grand jury. No grand juror, officer of the court, or other person shall disclose that an indictment
has been found against a person before such indictment is filed and the case docketed. The court
may direct that an indictment shall be kept secret until the defendant is in custody or has been
released pursuant to Rule 46. In that event the clerk shall seal the indictment, the indictment
shall not be docketed by name until after the apprehension of the accused, and no person shall
disclose the finding of the indictment except when necessary for the issuance of a warrant or
summons. No obligation of secrecy may be imposed upon any person except in
accordance with this rule.

IANAL, but it appears if a defendant makes a request for info about the GJ and proceedings, the judge may consider it and make a ruling.

ETA: For mod comment above, the link above also has rules describing who is present and what is done during GJ proceedings and it does mention there is someone there to record the proceedings.

(D)
Who may be present.
The prosecuting attorney, the witness under examination,
interpreters when needed and, for the purpose of taking the evidence, a stenographer or operator of a recording device may be present while the grand jury is in session, but no person other than the jurors may be present while the grand jury is deliberating or voting.

BBM
Hope this helps. Just thought I would jump in and offer it as I was already reading another section of the rules.

 

[Loomis124]

Here it is. I've been looking for this. It's helpful

http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/LegalResources/Rules/criminal/CriminalProcedure.pdf

Formatting is messed up, but here's the text. It's public info



IANAL, but it appears if a defendant makes a request for info about the GJ and proceedings, the judge may consider it and make a ruling.

ETA: For mod comment above, the link above also has rules describing who is present and what is done during GJ proceedings and it does mention there is someone there to record the proceedings.

Agree. And in FWs case, I understood it to be that her testimony was to be transcribed, and even that was still up to the Judge, as to how much would be made known in Discovery. JMO, from FWs pretrial court proceedings.

 

[Loomis124]

If someone doesn't provide a link, just alert the mods.

How do I do that?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

@MittenScarpetta ... do we have a link to support that statement?

Hi silly billy! I replied again to this poster and explained my reasoning. I’ve inserted it below and I will attach FW’s pretrial hearing speaking about transcribing the testimony as well as the judge speaking about a video review. I had also shared this video much earlier in the day in this thread. My information is sourced from my own knowledge of knowing that transcription is obtained from audio and/or video (or both).

Lol...it’s standard protocol in any courtroom. Comparable to when police interrogate suspects. It’s filmed and recorded.

Not to mention, there was heavy discussion about FW’s testimony not being transcribed yet at her pretrial as well as the judge stating several times he may need to do a video review.

JMO, but the transcription comes from somewhere, ie recording and/or video. And a video review is self explanatory.

Search cases such as OJ Simpson, JonBenet Ramsey, etc and you’ll find recordings.

JMHO. MOO.

Link to FW’s pretrial where the transcription and video review is discussed in depth.

ETA-there’s also this link that speaks about stenographers as well as video recording.

http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/LegalResources/Rules/criminal/CriminalProcedure.pdf

 

[Loomis124]

Yep!

Source?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Here it is. I've been looking for this. It's helpful

http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/LegalResources/Rules/criminal/CriminalProcedure.pdf

Formatting is messed up, but here's the text. It's public info



IANAL, but it appears if a defendant makes a request for info about the GJ and proceedings, the judge may consider it and make a ruling.

ETA: For mod comment above, the link above also has rules describing who is present and what is done during GJ proceedings and it does mention there is someone there to record the proceedings.



BBM
Hope this helps. Just thought I would jump in and offer it as I was already reading another section of the rules.

Thank you,@Betty P ! Much appreciated.

 

[Loomis124]

Click on the "Report" link just below the post. I try to be polite to the mods when asking and thank them for their time and effort.

Thank you, Betty!

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Source?

I’ll help @rsd1200 out here. RSD sourced this yesterday actually, in this same thread.

Our Church Windows

@sillybilly

 

[Betty P]

Thank you,@Betty P ! Much appreciated.

Thank you, Betty!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Dudly]

JMO: There are some posts, rumors, accusations and all kinds of craziness eerily similar to the now closed site. I certainly hope the craziness from there doesn't enter here.

BBM
It's here....

 

[Dudly]

"Jake and Hanna had worked their differences out with the use of a local attorney," he said. But that agreement was not formalized and is not entered in court.

But the news of DeWine's press release has filled the airwaves on the Kenai Peninsula and been the topic of some cafe and workplace conversations in the last week.

"Aren't those the people on the run?" asked Andy Billings, 46, of Seward, nonchalantly while he and two friends had lunch at Veronica's Cafe in Old Town Kenai. "We get a lot of that here."

He was surprised to learn that the family is not wanted for questioning. But he wasn't surprised the Wagners chose to pick up stakes in Ohio and join the other 60 percent of transplants to Alaska.

BBM
I've noticed that "local attorney" has never been named and he/she has never confirmed this as true....

 

[Dudly]

IMO, the reason AW was still in jail garb is because her motions are all still pending the court's decision.

I thought that motion was granted when it was requested....

 

[Betty P]

I thought that motion was granted when it was requested....

It was granted in her pre-trial hearing IIRC, so she may wear something different next time. The others went ahead and began wearing street clothes before they had permission from the judge. JMO, not a smart move, that seems rather disrespectful towards Judge Deering.

 

[Dudly]

I disagree. Posters are posting specifics, like feed for the animals, etc. They are either lying or have sources to the Amazon purchases.

I repeat. NO ONE can possibly know what those purchases were from Amazon. They were NOT made public. Anyone that posted anything about what those purchases were are only speculating, guessing, or lying. Not made public means only FW, the PA, DA, and judge has that information unless it was leaked...

 

[rsd1200]

Source?

Mission Church-Piketon Ohio

Our Church Windows