OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#42

[Cool Cats]

They will all go down together. No one will walk away no matter how many times the Wagners say one of them is not involved.....2 Cents........
Responding to @Jonas_Klein.....Pertains to GW4.

 

[Cool Cats]

Do you know when GGWII died? I have tried to search an obituary and can't find one. Also I think I saw where DR did some home nursing for him. Do you know if that is true?
TIA

August 21, 2017........He was 83.

We regret to say that George Washington Wagner Jr. passed away on 08/21/2017 and was 83 at the time. Before moving to George's last city of Lucasville, OH, George lived in Piketon OH. Sometimes George had gone by various nicknames including Geo W Wagner, Geo Wagner, George Washington Washingtonwagner and George Washington Wagner.

Birthday: 2/17/1934 - 8/21/2017

 

[Jonas_Klein]

They will all go down together. No one will walk away no matter how many times the Wagners say one of them is not involved.....2 Cents........
Responding to @Jonas_Klein.....Pertains to GW4.

Not sure. They have 4 separate trials. I am not sure the prosecution has any idea who pulled the trigger. It could be harder to demonstrate his motive.

I think it's very likely that the four independent trials will lead to 4 different outcomes especially with 22 counts and 6 specifications.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

At G4s trial, the prosecution will need to demonstrate that G4 participated in the planning and execution of the crime, enough to be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt.

To convinced the jury, the prosecution will argue a motive. In G4s case, what is it?

G4s' history with his wife and son could play here. His lawyer could try to keep it out the discussion. The Boondocks Saints movie could also play a part here too. Was he replaying the movie like some kind of game?

We'll see how G4s alledged motive holds in court.

 

[Cool Cats]

At G4s trial, the prosecution will need to demonstrate that G4 participated in the planning and execution of the crime, enough to be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt.

To convinced the jury, the prosecution will argue a motive. In G4s case, what is it?

G4s' history with his wife and son could play here. His lawyer could try to keep it out the discussion. The Boondocks Saints movie could also play a part here too. Was he replaying the movie like some kind of game?

We'll see how G4s alledged motive holds in court.

Just the planning is enough for a murder conviction, doesn't matter if GW4 actually stayed home that night and didn't "execute" the murders. (Hit men sometimes get lesser sentences than the person who planned the murder.)

Actually, I highly doubt that Angela was at the crime scenes that night. I don't think she literally pulled the trigger but that is neither here nor there because in the eyes of the law, conspiracy to commit murders that did take place, is the same as pulling the trigger.

And GW4 was the most vocal of all of them about wanting revenge on Sheriff Reader, Mike DeWine, Special Agent Shider, and others.

This information might come up in court through a witness or through a wiretap recording that would have transcripts for the jury while it's played in court.

If he wants to take revenge for the family, possibly murder, then why not help kill the 8 for the family?

This is a very enmeshed family, not hard to prove.[/QUOTE]

 

[Jayejayehilltop]

IMO, make no mistake about it....There IS a John Doe, clearly stated in the indictments.

I found the article below quite encouraging:
Indicting John Doe: When all you have is DNA - CNN.com

That is a very informative article, great find!

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

One of the first things I was told when using a computer for the first time was “even when you delete something it’s never actually gone”

 

[GoBuckeyes]

That is a very informative article, great find!

I haven't read the John Doe indictment, but I read the article. So there was likely a 5th killer who has already flipped?

 

[FrescaandSouthernComfort]

Just the planning is enough for a murder conviction, doesn't matter if GW4 actually stayed home that night and didn't "execute" the murders. (Hit men sometimes get lesser sentences than the person who planned the murder.)

Actually, I highly doubt that Angela was at the crime scenes that night. I don't think she literally pulled the trigger but that is neither here nor there because in the eyes of the law, conspiracy to commit murders that did take place, is the same as pulling the trigger.

And GW4 was the most vocal of all of them about wanting revenge on Sheriff Reader, Mike DeWine, Special Agent Shider, and others.

This information might come up in court through a witness or through a wiretap recording that would have transcripts for the jury while it's played in court.

If he wants to take revenge for the family, possibly murder, then why not help kill the 8 for the family?

This is a very enmeshed family, not hard to prove.

[/QUOTE]


You are correct. This is just my opinion, but for the covert narcissist, it is all about control.
When HMR refused to conform and accept her fate planned by the Wagners, the Wagners
didn't expect the solidarity shown to HMR by the Rhoden family. Everything the Wagners
tried failed. JMO, that it was necessary to remove everything involving the maternal side of
Suds life in was the Wagners line of thought. All the lies and victim blasting were created by
the Wagners and their friends.

Just think, this was a teenage girl being assaulted by adults. They got away with it once, so
try the same pattern again. This time was different, the girl wouldn't obey. JMO
destroyed

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Yes Coolcats I too had noticed his attorney talking and laughing with Angela Canepa, and have been so curious as to what it was he was laughing about. It struck me as an odd thing to do with a client sitting there

Without context, it would bother me very much.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Thats rhetorical. Of course we all want these killers to face justice. That is not the sole reason people follow murder cases that they aren't personally involved/connected with. To paint everyone's interest in this case in one light is not realistic. IMO

The reasons are many and varied, in my opinion. There's a human interest aspect. It makes one wonder, How well do I know my friends, neighbors, etc. For others, understanding the misguided thought process of a killer is necessary to help us predict the future behavior of those around us. Crimes remind us how little control we have over our safety and security. Their resolution helps us to regain some sense of security, real or not.

 

[The 13th]

I still suspect that the John Doe is GWII. No need to be named yet or now since he died before the indictments.

 

[Gracie55]

I still suspect that the John Doe is GWII. No need to be named yet or now since he died before the indictments.

That would be powerful if he was. I've wondered.

 

[The 13th]

This morning, I remembered one of Len's interviews with the press when he was upset with law enforcement. He said something about them even having taken something from or searched "a bedfast man." I'm not up for finding it right now, so JMO on the exact wording. I'm sure some of you guys will remember it, too. Wonder if it was GWII.

- - -

Edited to say: Okay, it was easy to find, actually. rsd1200's post at the bottom of this page OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

MittenScarpetta said: I agree. However we do know how much time lapsed between the murders and the search of the W's that we were are aware of. So, could there be a chance that since BBL was searched that the W's farm was initially searched as well and the search done in May 2017 of the W's properties was perhaps a 2nd search?

rsd1200 said: I think it's possible. I think that second search was caused due to a tip from someone in a cell. They thought it was valid and pulled out all stops. If you'll note, they didn't search the inside of any of the homes. Just the grounds, and those trailers. They had searched what was called a, nursing home, on the elder Ws property (iirc), prior to this. I think that it is one of the search warrants that LM speaks about, where they (LE), in executing a search, took bedding from an old man who was bedfast, and LM seemed to think it was ridiculous. Idk who the bedfast man was though, and he speaks to JW coming to the house, prior, all the time, but won't bring S now (JW said in another article that he'd taken S to visit other family, but, he won't take her down UHR, b/c of her Momma, and she doesn't understand. She would think that she was going there, even if they pass the turnoff to UHR). When my grandchild's father passed, she was about the same age as S. She would ask for him when she visited her paternal grandparents. She didn't understand. It was hard enough, in the manner her father passed, but, in the manner that S's mother passed, and then S's home is even gone, I can kinda see why. The road runs both ways.

Starts around the 2:30 mark about the search warrant/bedding.

http://www.fox19.com/story/35453014...of-arrests-investigators-couldnt-catch-a-cold

 

[rsd1200]

They will all go down together. No one will walk away no matter how many times the Wagners say one of them is not involved.....2 Cents........
Responding to @Jonas_Klein.....Pertains to GW4.

It may be difficult since they are all separated. They can't keep track of one another's goings ons, and keep the lies straight. One of the bros, may just throw them all, right under the bus. Then again, AW may fold, to try and save her boys. Hard to tell til they see all the discovery. If it is very damning, they may all cave. Then again, if they see themselves as some sort of vigilante team, they very well could all go down, feeling like martyrs. So many scenarios with this bunch.

 

[Dudly]

Some reading:
The Pike County Massacre

 

[rsd1200]

One of the first things I was told when using a computer for the first time was “even when you delete something it’s never actually gone”

Oh so true. Good rule of thumb for posting on the internet too.

 

[Cool Cats]

That would be powerful if he was. I've wondered.

That would be crazy! Who knows? When the Wags started planning the murders in January 2016, it was 1 year and 8 months before GW2 passed away, so yes it's possible he was conspiring or at least knew of the plot.

But it's also possible that both he and Fred knew nothing until after the fact, if they knew at all.

Thinking about John Doe makes me wonder if JM might be called as a witness. LE told LM that JM sent a text to Jake at 2:00am that morning. DeWine's office called JM a witness and JM's lawyer said they arrested him to pressure him for information.

Then there is the failed polygraph and the hidden GPS on his truck that might have been used in an aggravated murder. Then charges were abruptly dropped because they didn't want to reveal any evidence they had on him.
....... Last they said about his case is that it would go to the GJ--- but then radio silence.

JM considered a witness in the murders.....
Witness charged with tampering with evidence in Pike County murders

JM a witness.....
Brother of Pike Co. massacre victim posts bail

Attorney says LE is pressuring JM for information.....
Pike County murders: State pressuring Manley family, lawyer says



...

 

[GoBuckeyes]

This morning, I remembered one of Len's interviews with the press when he was upset with law enforcement. He said something about them even having taken something from or searched "a bedfast man." I'm not up for finding it right now, so JMO on the exact wording. I'm sure some of you guys will remember it, too. Wonder if it was GWII.

- - -

Edited to say: Okay, it was easy to find, actually. rsd1200's post at the bottom of this page OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

MittenScarpetta said: I agree. However we do know how much time lapsed between the murders and the search of the W's that we were are aware of. So, could there be a chance that since BBL was searched that the W's farm was initially searched as well and the search done in May 2017 of the W's properties was perhaps a 2nd search?

rsd1200 said: I think it's possible. I think that second search was caused due to a tip from someone in a cell. They thought it was valid and pulled out all stops. If you'll note, they didn't search the inside of any of the homes. Just the grounds, and those trailers. They had searched what was called a, nursing home, on the elder Ws property (iirc), prior to this. I think that it is one of the search warrants that LM speaks about, where they (LE), in executing a search, took bedding from an old man who was bedfast, and LM seemed to think it was ridiculous. Idk who the bedfast man was though, and he speaks to JW coming to the house, prior, all the time, but won't bring S now (JW said in another article that he'd taken S to visit other family, but, he won't take her down UHR, b/c of her Momma, and she doesn't understand. She would think that she was going there, even if they pass the turnoff to UHR). When my grandchild's father passed, she was about the same age as S. She would ask for him when she visited her paternal grandparents. She didn't understand. It was hard enough, in the manner her father passed, but, in the manner that S's mother passed, and then S's home is even gone, I can kinda see why. The road runs both ways.

Starts around the 2:30 mark about the search warrant/bedding.

http://www.fox19.com/story/35453014...of-arrests-investigators-couldnt-catch-a-cold

Great memory, the 13th!! And that's an excellent question as to whether or not the bedfast man is GWII. Very interesting...

 

[Dudly]

Still trying to find the video mentioned that would be on the 11:00 pm news...
Pike County murders: Court documents reveal new details