OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#43

[Dudly]

Not sure what you mean. The court always has a "canned formal standard statement" in dealing with cases. This is just the court's way of saying that the mother is deceased and so it's in the best interests of the child to reside with the father.

Yes, but it was rather obvious she had to go somewhere...

 

[Cool Cats]

Wow I never even consider that as a possible reason for that txt LM said the BCI guys told him about. It's just chilling to think that could have been why it was sent.

I don't think Jake (or mom doing it for him) would have text JM if he was an intended target.

I am suspicious---if the text at 2:00am on April 22, 2016 is true---that it was Angela using Jake's phone trying to establish an alibi for Jake. I think Angela was home and wanted Jake's phone to "ping" at a tower away from UHR.

So why not just call? Because if JM had answered a phone call he would know he wasn't talking to Jake. I doubt Angela sounds like Jake.

But if James had answered a text, Angela could have responded pretending to be Jake.

But even if, say, Jake or Angela had an airtight alibi for that night, it wouldn't be enough to save someone who is involved in the planning of murder. You plan it.... you are as guilty as those who pulled the triggers.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, but it was rather obvious she had to go somewhere...

I don't know why Jake couldn't have just kept Sophie without going to court. I think because in Ohio you are not considered the legal guardian if your a guy and your not married to the child's mother when your child is born and if your not on the birth certificate.

He might have been kept off the BC because HR was a minor and he was an adult. That would account for all this legal wrangling.

If he was on the BC but still had to go to court, it must be because the State of Ohio didn't officially recognize him as the official legal guardian.

Seems complicated but he was probably going by what an Atty was telling him to do. He made sure there would be no mistake that he was the father and legal guardian. Dot all your i's and × all your T's....

 

[Jonas_Klein]

Jerry Miller
The comments below are mine as an individual Commissioner. I do not speak for the Board but as an individual Board member. My comments are also not intended to criticize our Sheriff or the Department in any way but rather to shed some light on the financial realities we face. Questions arising from these comments will not be answered on social media. I felt obligated to offer my comments even though I’ve been in office less than 8 weeks.

The Pike County Sheriff’s Department is well-funded when viewed as dollars per population or dollars as a percentage of overall budget. This years’ department budget is approximately 3.7 million which represents 37% of the General Fund budget of 10 million. When compared to other county sheriff’s departments with similar population and demographics, Pike County ranks highly in percentage of the total budget by an average of nearly 10% more than comparable counties.

Part of the issue is that substantial increases in budget started in 2016 as a result of the Union Hill murders, peaking in 2017 at more than 5 million. This was after the overwhelming effort and responsibility of helping BCI with the investigation in 2016 and one deputy had been assigned to represent the department during the investigation. What hasn’t been made clear to taxpayers and perhaps the majority of the men and women in uniform is that those additional budget funds came from county ‘savings’, not annual revenues (which have actually decreased by over 1 million in the same time frame). In short, the savings or cushion the Pike County General fund had in 2015 of over 7 million dollars will be at or near zero after this fiscal year.

It bears mentioning that no amount of protests results in any additional dollars being added to the General fund. There will likely be those who insist Pike County build a jail to reduce prisoner transport costs. This seems logical until you scrutinize the numbers. Not only would it be a very large sum of money, that we don’t have, but annual operating expense would far outpace the savings of no longer having to transport prisoners as we do today. As in most financial matters there are economies of scale that could make a jail financially feasible. As an example, if a 500 bed jail were built and all cells occupied by our own prisoners, as well as those from surrounding counties, there’s a case to be made. I’ve been told Pike County has had offers from several surrounding counties to take over their jails because they’re so expensive to run with so few cells. It’s a catch 22, build a small jail and potentially bankrupt the county or build a large jail and potentially bankrupt the county getting it built and waiting for cells to fill up. The first scenario is very real and the second scenario is a risk that can’t be taken when we’re on the brink of financial insolvency.

There are options to increase revenue; Tax increases. My personal opinion is that unless and until we can demonstrate that we can operate within our means that’s simply not an option I believe Pike county citizens want.

The present Board of Commissioners of which I am a part doesn’t have a choice but to reduce spending of your tax dollars in order to provide the bare minimum of services those funds are intended for. Whether it’s the Clerk of Courts, Probate Court, County Court, Common Pleas Court, Pike County EMA and EMS, the Auditor, Treasurer, Recorder, the Board of Elections or any other Government function (all or most of whom have had their budgets reduced) we are obligated by law to provide funding for those departments to function. The notion that reducing spending is a preference or subjective is not accurate. It’s basic math that dictates the actions of the Board. We cannot allocate monies we don’t have. We cannot deficit spend nor can we borrow any more than is already owed. It may not be pleasant to hear but the truth is we’ve spent our savings or cushion until it no longer exists. All of these financial facts can be verified by the Auditor’s office for clarity and/or confirmation of the exact dollar amounts I’ve mentioned above.

I’m not sure it’s possible to ‘over-fund’ law enforcement due to the importance of their responsibility to the community and I have great respect for the men and women who serve to protect us. I also believe that the Department functions more efficiently than in years past as a result of trying to maintain the same level of service in the face of financial limitations. I know several of these people personally and it’s heartbreaking to see them work so hard and know that we’re just not able to continue to fund the department at its current levels. There is no way to put a positive spin on the necessity of reducing law enforcement monies but at this point it is no longer optional to allocate monies we don’t have. To summarize; we don’t have a choice in the matter.

My hope would be that the Sheriff’s Department and the Board of Commissioners work together to come up with a solution to serve our citizens while operating within the financial constraints we find ourselves in. These are your tax dollars and we need to find a way to stretch them as far as possible on your behalf.

Sincerely,

Jerry Miller

Pike County Commissioner

The explanation of the Commisioner is very interesting. US counties have autonomy to spend to better serve needs locally but there is a limit to the viability of that model. Small counties cannot deal with rare but major cases such as this one.

Any passionate about math here? The Central Limit Theorem, or law of large numbers, explains how the county model cannot work. Politicians need to learn math.

The county is 28700 inhabitants out of 325M for the US and accounts for 0.0087% of population. In recent years, there has been 161 shootings with 4 killed or more. Therefore the expected occurence of this shooting for this county was only 1.4%.

However the outcome of that 1.4% is dramatic. More over the standard error of that 1.4% is high given the small number of occurence. It's computed by :

SE = SquareRoot(1.4% x (1-1.4%)) ÷ SquareRoot(161 cases) = +- 0.9%

In such cases, with a rare but dramatic outcome, the State would be in a better position to deal with this budget. It would also be easier to forecast an accurate budget because the standard eŕror on that budget would be relatively smaller. Some kind of public insurance scheme could also work here.

Understanding The Central Limit Theorem – Towards Data Science

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/mass-shootings-in-america/

ETA: dear mod, please add a markup feature that would allow me to print mathematical expressions. I would use it more often

 

[CrimewatcherGrandma]

Isn't this the trailer that JW and HMR supposedly conceived SW? IIRC this address was in JW indictment on that charge? Can someone confirm? Not stating as factual, question only. Hope this meets TOS as I read, read, read but rarely comment.

 

[CrimewatcherGrandma]

As I understand it, 845 Bethel is a trailer (s?) on a large piece of land. I think it is owned by FW.
Did the W4 live in that trailer once? Maybe before the purchase of the Peterson house? Did anyone live there after the W4's moved out?
(And more importantly - did it have bed bugs or chickens? JK!!!!!!!)

 

[CrimewatcherGrandma]

My comment was a reply to Puzzles 8. Haven't gotten the hang of this yet.

 

[OhioBlues]

Isn't this the trailer that JW and HMR supposedly conceived SW? IIRC this address was in JW indictment on that charge? Can someone confirm? Not stating as factual, question only. Hope this meets TOS as I read, read, read but rarely comment.

JW indictment on that specific charge does not list an address. The indictment states January 18, 2013 - March 18, 2013 was the Unlawful Sexual Contact.

 

[rsd1200]

JW indictment on that specific charge does not list an address. The indictment states January 18, 2013 - March 18, 2013 was the Unlawful Sexual Contact.

I think they are just covering their bases. Feb 14, 2013 - Mar 1, 2013 would have been the most likely time frame that would've resulted in S's Nov. 2013 date of birth. He'd told someone during all this that they'd planned S. He may have been more specific, as to when they started trying for S, in another interview, or an interview w/LE.

 

[OhioBlues]

I think they are just covering their bases. Feb 14, 2013 - Mar 1, 2013 would have been the most likely time frame that would've resulted in S's Nov. 2013 date of birth. He'd told someone during all this that they'd planned S. He may have been more specific, as to when they started trying for S, in another interview, or an interview w/LE.

I agree that they are covering their bases. I just don't believe JW's statement that they planned SW. AW/JW gave interviews and sent emails to Chris Graves at the Cincinnati Enquirer and they gave false information IMO.

The issue (to me) is that we shouldn't build any timeline or event based on their claims.

moo

 

[rsd1200]

I agree that they are covering their bases. I just don't believe JW's statement that they planned SW. AW/JW gave interviews and sent emails to Chris Graves at the Cincinnati Enquirer and they gave false information IMO.

The issue (to me) is that we shouldn't build any timeline or event based on their claims.

moo

We almost have to insert that information in there. Whether we insert that S was planned or not is kind of a moot point as HMR was not allowed to consent to plan for S., but LE included the date range so they found it important at the time.

 

[Dudly]

My comment was a reply to Puzzles 8. Haven't gotten the hang of this yet.

Just hit reply at the bottom of a comment you want to reply to then type your reply under the [QUOTE...[/QUOTE] part which is the comment you are replying to. And, Welcome to the discussion...

 

[Betty P]

To add the suppressor, you would take the firearm apart, and replace the barrel nut with a replacement piece, you would fit the suppressor onto the replacement piece.

This fella gives a pretty good demo for the avg. firearm/suppressor. He uses a Walther P22.

Unusual to see a guy from Wales doing that video. I though firearms/handguns were illegal in Wales.

Firearms policy in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

 

[Betty P]

We almost have to insert that information in there. Whether we insert that S was planned or not is kind of a moot point as HMR was not allowed to consent to plan for S., but LE included the date range so they found it important at the time.

I'm pretty sure any events in the timeline that were provided by the W's have been noted as such. As we learn more about the murders, accurate information will be added. The timeline here is still a work in progress. Is there something you want to add or change?

 

[CrimewatcherGrandma]

I just had to research my comment/question about 845 Bethel being listed in JW's indictment as the place of SW's conception. In thread #42 Betty P's comment # 463 she refers to Bethel Hill Rd being listed in JW's count 23. It was in the Bill of particulars as the place of the offense. I just re-read the Bop and it is there. Is 845 Bethel and Bethel Hill Rd the same property? Just learning how to reply to posts in this thread thanks to Dudly and have no idea how to bring a comment from another thread here.

 

[Cool Cats]

I just had to research my comment/question about 845 Bethel being listed in JW's indictment as the place of SW's conception. In thread #42 Betty P's comment # 463 she refers to Bethel Hill Rd being listed in JW's count 23. It was in the Bill of particulars as the place of the offense. I just re-read the Bop and it is there. Is 845 Bethel and Bethel Hill Rd the same property? Just learning how to reply to posts in this thread thanks to Dudly and have no idea how to bring a comment from another thread here.

The only Bethel Rd in Pike County is Bethel Hill Rd. So if you send mail to 845 Bethel, it would be the same as 845 Bethel Hill Rd., yes same place.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jerry Miller
The comments below are mine as an individual Commissioner. I do not speak for the Board but as an individual Board member. My comments are also not intended to criticize our Sheriff or the Department in any way but rather to shed some light on the financial realities we face. Questions arising from these comments will not be answered on social media. I felt obligated to offer my comments even though I’ve been in office less than 8 weeks.

The Pike County Sheriff’s Department is well-funded when viewed as dollars per population or dollars as a percentage of overall budget. This years’ department budget is approximately 3.7 million which represents 37% of the General Fund budget of 10 million. When compared to other county sheriff’s departments with similar population and demographics, Pike County ranks highly in percentage of the total budget by an average of nearly 10% more than comparable counties.

Part of the issue is that substantial increases in budget started in 2016 as a result of the Union Hill murders, peaking in 2017 at more than 5 million. This was after the overwhelming effort and responsibility of helping BCI with the investigation in 2016 and one deputy had been assigned to represent the department during the investigation. What hasn’t been made clear to taxpayers and perhaps the majority of the men and women in uniform is that those additional budget funds came from county ‘savings’, not annual revenues (which have actually decreased by over 1 million in the same time frame). In short, the savings or cushion the Pike County General fund had in 2015 of over 7 million dollars will be at or near zero after this fiscal year.

It bears mentioning that no amount of protests results in any additional dollars being added to the General fund. There will likely be those who insist Pike County build a jail to reduce prisoner transport costs. This seems logical until you scrutinize the numbers. Not only would it be a very large sum of money, that we don’t have, but annual operating expense would far outpace the savings of no longer having to transport prisoners as we do today. As in most financial matters there are economies of scale that could make a jail financially feasible. As an example, if a 500 bed jail were built and all cells occupied by our own prisoners, as well as those from surrounding counties, there’s a case to be made. I’ve been told Pike County has had offers from several surrounding counties to take over their jails because they’re so expensive to run with so few cells. It’s a catch 22, build a small jail and potentially bankrupt the county or build a large jail and potentially bankrupt the county getting it built and waiting for cells to fill up. The first scenario is very real and the second scenario is a risk that can’t be taken when we’re on the brink of financial insolvency.

There are options to increase revenue; Tax increases. My personal opinion is that unless and until we can demonstrate that we can operate within our means that’s simply not an option I believe Pike county citizens want.

The present Board of Commissioners of which I am a part doesn’t have a choice but to reduce spending of your tax dollars in order to provide the bare minimum of services those funds are intended for. Whether it’s the Clerk of Courts, Probate Court, County Court, Common Pleas Court, Pike County EMA and EMS, the Auditor, Treasurer, Recorder, the Board of Elections or any other Government function (all or most of whom have had their budgets reduced) we are obligated by law to provide funding for those departments to function. The notion that reducing spending is a preference or subjective is not accurate. It’s basic math that dictates the actions of the Board. We cannot allocate monies we don’t have. We cannot deficit spend nor can we borrow any more than is already owed. It may not be pleasant to hear but the truth is we’ve spent our savings or cushion until it no longer exists. All of these financial facts can be verified by the Auditor’s office for clarity and/or confirmation of the exact dollar amounts I’ve mentioned above.

I’m not sure it’s possible to ‘over-fund’ law enforcement due to the importance of their responsibility to the community and I have great respect for the men and women who serve to protect us. I also believe that the Department functions more efficiently than in years past as a result of trying to maintain the same level of service in the face of financial limitations. I know several of these people personally and it’s heartbreaking to see them work so hard and know that we’re just not able to continue to fund the department at its current levels. There is no way to put a positive spin on the necessity of reducing law enforcement monies but at this point it is no longer optional to allocate monies we don’t have. To summarize; we don’t have a choice in the matter.

My hope would be that the Sheriff’s Department and the Board of Commissioners work together to come up with a solution to serve our citizens while operating within the financial constraints we find ourselves in. These are your tax dollars and we need to find a way to stretch them as far as possible on your behalf.

Sincerely,

Jerry Miller

Pike County Commissioner

They need to sue Fred for her part and sue Billy and company for theirs. Collect back some of that money that had to be spent investigating the crime.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

JW indictment on that specific charge does not list an address. The indictment states January 18, 2013 - March 18, 2013 was the Unlawful Sexual Contact.

The Bill of Particulars lists Bethel Hill Road, Pike County Ohio, as the location of the offense.
Jake Wagner Bill of Particulars
Count #23....Unlawful Sexual Conduct with a Minor.

 

[Cool Cats]

They need to sue Fred for her part and sue Billy and company for theirs. Collect back some of that money that had to be spent investigating the crime.

JMO

If the Wagner 4 are found guilty (or not guilty as happened with OJ Simpson) the families will likely try to get a Judgement against them in Civil Court. (My 2 cents)
The Wagner 4 are not paying for their defense so whatever money or assets they all had at the time of arrests, should still be there.

The exception would be if Jake and GW4's assets are going towards child support and of course jail related expenditures such as commissary, phone calls, medical related charges, maybe some court costs, trial clothes, etc...

It's too late for them to hide/transfer their money/assets now. They could try from jail but seriously, what family member would want to help them hide assets to keep the victims from any gain? It's one thing for a relative to manage their affairs, someone has to, but to deliberately hide things from the victims is not something I see a relative doing for them.

 

[Puzzles8]

If the Wagner 4 are found guilty (or not guilty as happened with OJ Simpson) the families will likely try to get a Judgement against them in Civil Court. (My 2 cents)
The Wagner 4 are not paying for their defense so whatever money or assets they all had at the time of arrests, should still be there.

The exception would be if Jake and GW4's assets are going towards child support and of course jail related expenditures such as commissary, phone calls, medical related charges, maybe some court costs, trial clothes, etc...

It's too late for them to hide/transfer their money/assets now. They could try from jail but seriously, what family member would want to help them hide assets to keep the victims from any gain? It's one thing for a relative to manage their affairs, someone has to, but to deliberately hide things from the victims is not something I see a relative doing for them.

Oh, I can think of one....................................................