OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#43

[Cool Cats]

Ann, you bring up good points on questions we have relating to the forged custody documents.
What I wonder is if the R's even knew about the documents. HMR would certainly know if her signature had been forged and I think the rest of the R family would realize there was no way HMR would have signed those papers.
Maybe the R's were the ones that had something to hold over the W4's heads?
The date on the 2 indictments (related to forged custody documents) is April 3, 2016. Does that mean it was the date written on the documents? Or does it mean it was the date the forged documents were presented to LE?
That's a good question as to how LE even knew about the docs. One of the indictments refers to presenting a copy known to be fake (paraphrasing) to LE. Was that done on 4/3/2016?
In the Secondary discovery documents, there is a piece of evidence titled "Declaration Forms" I'm guessing those are the forms they needed to complete to enter/leave the US/Canada. Maybe they needed to present the custody documents then and border agents made a copy?
It seems as though just when we think we have something figured out, it creates so many more questions! And then when the trials come around, we will likely be left with our jaws wide open saying - well I certainly didn't see that coming!!

The fake child custody documents wouldn't work with the Rhodens alive. The Rhodens would know they were fake.

The custody papers (just my 2 cents) were to help the Wags after the murders. They knew the finger would point at them over custody, but the custody papers take away their motive for the murders.

They thought they could say "hey, we had no reason to want Hanna and her family out of the picture---see these custody papers prove it!"

However, it completely backfired on them and defeated their purpose. The forged documents make them look guilty.

 

[Deleted member 237253]

I wonder how long it took authorities to figure out the custody documents were forged?

 

[Cool Cats]

I wonder how long it took authorities to figure out the custody documents were forged?

Who knows? But the Wags themselves may have served up the custody papers to LE. If the Wags were using the forged custody documents as proof that they had no reason to want HR out of their lives, then they might have brought up the subject when they were being questioned.

And of course LE would have questioned Jake about any custody disagreements. According to DeWine/Reader they made mistakes and a big part of that was "the lies, all the lies they told us."

The forged custody papers were more lies.

 

[Julia966]

Honestly, I find the custody documents to be the dumbest part of this case. Did they really think LE wouldn't check them out, or that anyone who knew HMR would be fooled?

 

[Jayejayehilltop]

Once the wagners showed those forged custody documents to LE, their next move would have been to question a Rhoden family member and they obviously would have disputed that right away. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Once the wagners showed those forged custody documents to LE, their next move would have been to question a Rhoden family member and they obviously would have disputed that right away. JMO

I'm sure they talked to LM about it and he was the first one who mentioned it to the media, and family said Jake was abusive to H R.

But again, this was all part of their lies. With so many lies it must have been obvious to LE that the Wags were trying too hard to show they had a lack of motive to want the Rhodens gone.

 

[rsd1200]

Hey @Loomis124, I went back to look and I was able to greatly enlarge it and you are right it says: 1911.22 (2).

Are you sure this type of gun was used in the movie?
The Boondock Saints (1999)

Two Irish Catholic brothers become vigilantes and wipe out Boston's criminal underworld in the name of God.
___________________________________
Because if it was, if the Wagners used a
gun that mimics the movie, then this is important! It could be part of the reason that the movie has been called into evidence. Good find Loomis.
Gun Review: Chiappa 1911-.22 | Gun Digest
Share

With all the controls in the same places as a traditional 1911, the Chiappa 1911-22 gives you a great platform for training.

It sells for under $300, shoots like it is worth $600, and will make any handgunner a better shot in short order.

In most cases when turning to the .22 Long Rifle as a training replacement for a larger centerfire round like the .45 ACP, shooters will opt for something like a Ruger Mark III, or swap out the guts of the 1911 .45 ACP for a .22 Long Rifle conversion kit. Those options work, but now there is a third option, a dedicated pistol that looks and works just like a 1911, but fires the .22 LR. Chiappa Firearms makes this option affordable, accurate and dependable.

Chiappa Firearms has just introduced the new and innovative Model 1911-22. This is not a reworked .45-caliber weapon, but a handgun built from the frame up as a dead look alike to its big brother the Colt .45 1911 Government. Unlike some other replica firearms, the 1911-22 makes use of its own proprietary “Chiappalloy” frame and steel castings, which moves it well away from the plastic and pot metal guns that are floating around in some circles now a days. This handgun is a gun, and not a reworked paint ball system, or based on a plastic toy.


Chiappa .22LR 1911
For Sale from The Sportsman |

With tactical extender. This gun would easily adapt to a silencer/muffler/suppressor |
https://www.gunsamerica.com/userimages/5212/996093148/wm_4330545.jpg

Snipped a photo or two, above, for response purposes.

In the movie, The Boondock Saints, the boys used a M1911A1s. I think they used a firearm with 1911 grips in one of the films, that had their tatts inscribed on each side, not sure if it was Saints 1 or 2.

Here's a list of the Saints 1, film's firearms.

Boondock Saints, The - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games

 

[rsd1200]

As I understand it, 845 Bethel is a trailer (s?) on a large piece of land. I think it is owned by FW.
Did the W4 live in that trailer once? Maybe before the purchase of the Peterson house? Did anyone live there after the W4's moved out?
(And more importantly - did it have bed bugs or chickens? JK!!!!!!!)

They did. Even G4 and his then wife, lived there. At one point in time there were a lot more things there.

 

[rsd1200]

Not sure if it is my problem or the website but clicking like does not always work for me. Sometimes I have to hit it several times. So some posts may have been missed.

Same problem here.

 

[Julia966]

Once the wagners showed those forged custody documents to LE, their next move would have been to question a Rhoden family member and they obviously would have disputed that right away. JMO

But also, such documents are filed in court, aren't they? It would be a simple matter to find out if they are legit.

I thought at first the fake docs were intended to get them across the Canadian border on the way to Alaska, but JW had actual custody by then. I don't know what the intent was, but it seems like a dumb move.

 

[rsd1200]

But also, such documents are filed in court, aren't they? It would be a simple matter to find out if they are legit.

I thought at first the fake docs were intended to get them across the Canadian border on the way to Alaska, but JW had actual custody by then. I don't know what the intent was, but it seems like a dumb move.

I kinda think it was naivety. In other words, look Grandma, if we do it this way, it's going to be easier, for me to get S and cost me less. Why add stress to an already awful situation and who will know? Grandma doesn't necessarily have to know anything more than that at the time. She prob thinks her daughter, and grandsons are innocent. What grandmother wouldn't? Edit: I can't remember what date they were signed, so that's just a theory.

 

[Puzzles8]

They did. Even G4 and his then wife, lived there. At one point in time there were a lot more things there.

Thank you so much for these maps. It helps greatly in orienting the various locations. Were they all living together in 1 trailer? As in, 6 adults and 2 children?
You marked Hillside Nursing Home on the map. Was that where DR worked?

 

[OhioBlues]

But also, such documents are filed in court, aren't they? It would be a simple matter to find out if they are legit.

I thought at first the fake docs were intended to get them across the Canadian border on the way to Alaska, but JW had actual custody by then. I don't know what the intent was, but it seems like a dumb move.

My guess is that if the HMR had signed over custody then they would still be alive today.
But HMR refused so the fake docs were created in case they had a problem obtaining custody in court. My guess is that they didn't have to use them in court.

It seems to me that RN would have had to have figured out who killed the R's on 4/22.

jmo

 

[Julia966]

My guess is that if the HMR had signed over custody then they would still be alive today.
But HMR refused so the fake docs were created in case they had a problem obtaining custody in court. My guess is that they didn't have to use them in court.

It seems to me that RN would have had to have figured out who killed the R's on 4/22.

jmo

But how could they use them in court? The court record would show that no such documents existed.

I agree with you on HMR signing over custody, assuming she was approached with such an offer. Had she been approached by the Wagner family to give up custody of S, and did so, I too think they would all still be alive.

I've lost track of what's known and not known. Do we know she was asked/pressured by the Wagners to give up custody of S?

 

[Tiff23fr]

But how could they use them in court? The court record would show that no such documents existed.

I agree with you on HMR signing over custody, assuming she was approached with such an offer. Had she been approached by the Wagner family to give up custody of S, and did so, I too think they would all still be alive.

I've lost track of what's known and not known. Do we know she was asked/pressured by the Wagners to give up custody of S?

I think the custody docs were key in this to the W's. If planning started late 2015 early 2016, at some point they may have realized that by already having shared custody on file the legal burden after the murders related to custody would be easier to get through. Once HR didn't sign those, they may have come up with a plan "B" such as telling grandma Newcomb HR signed these last week can you go ahead and notarize? Either way, I agree completely both grandmothers likely had a pretty good hunch on what happened very soon after the murders.

Note the reference to 3 weeks in Jakes comment. Wasn't the date associated with the docs April 3? It seems that could fall within this "3 weeks prior" time frame. April 3 was a Sunday so it's possible the "fighting" was Fri or Sat.

Jake Wagner and his mother have repeatedly told The Enquirer there was no custody battle for Sophia. Rather they said they were working with a Pike County lawyer in the weeks before the homicides to formalize a verbal shared custody arrangement in which the couple alternated weeks with Sophia.

“They were just putting down on paper what they were already doing," Angela Wagner said in an email to The Enquirer on June 2, 2017.

Relatives of some of the victims describe the relationship differently. They said Jake Wagner and his dad argued and fought with the Rhodens in the weeks just prior to the killings.

Jake Wagner balked at that: “No, I did not go to Hanna’s home three weeks prior to April 22 and kick in the door demanding she sign over custody of Sophia,’’ he wrote in that June 2017 email. “I did not want that. I wanted to continue what we were doing. It was working just fine.”

It does not appear any written custody agreement between Hanna Rhoden and Jake Wagner was ever filed in Pike County juvenile court prior to her death.

Rhoden family massacre: Arrests throw child custody issue back to Ohio courts

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you so much for these maps. It helps greatly in orienting the various locations. Were they all living together in 1 trailer? As in, 6 adults and 2 children?
You marked Hillside Nursing Home on the map. Was that where DR worked?

YES........
Hillside Skilled Nursing And Rehabilitation
Address: 3564 Lawshe Rd
Peebles, OH 45660
County: Adams
Map and Directions

 

[OhioBlues]

But how could they use them in court? The court record would show that no such documents existed.

I agree with you on HMR signing over custody, assuming she was approached with such an offer. Had she been approached by the Wagner family to give up custody of S, and did so, I too think they would all still be alive.

I've lost track of what's known and not known. Do we know she was asked/pressured by the Wagners to give up custody of S?

IMO the only way the W's could use the custody papers would be to support their claim that SW wanted JW to have custody when HMR was dead.

I don't believe what the W's told the Enquirer regarding anything especially child custody.

It looks to me like the State of Ohio has an official process and specific forms (approved by the Ohio Supreme Court) for child custody.

LibGuides: Ohio Child Custody, Support and Visitation Law: Establishing Custody and Parenting Time

jmo

 

[OhioBlues]

But also, such documents are filed in court, aren't they? It would be a simple matter to find out if they are legit.

I thought at first the fake docs were intended to get them across the Canadian border on the way to Alaska, but JW had actual custody by then. I don't know what the intent was, but it seems like a dumb move.

I have thought about the Canadian border too. RN was charged with GW4 fake docs too and that confuses me more. It's either all about complete control of the children or the border. jmo

 

[Cool Cats]

Snipped a photo or two, above, for response purposes.

In the movie, The Boondock Saints, the boys used a M1911A1s. I think they used a firearm with 1911 grips in one of the films, that had their tatts inscribed on each side, not sure if it was Saints 1 or 2.

Here's a list of the Saints 1, film's firearms.

Boondock Saints, The - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games

Thankx for confirming that the guns used in the movie are the same type of Colt Revolver possibly used in the murders. (My 2 Cents)

There are 2 Colt 1911 revolvers listed on the evidence sheet. These revolvers are used with magazine clips ( the Wagners bought magazine clips at Walmart.) And these revolvers can be fitted with silencers and can be used as automatic weapons, which again, both of these adaptions to this handgun are part of the indictment.

I have a theory that it will be mentioned at trial that the killers used firearms consistent to firearms used in the movie ' The Boondock Saints.'

Anyone else have "trial theories" ?

Other Theories: At trial the tattoo in evidence will turn out to be Billy's (GW3) scorpion tattoo and the confidential source will turn out to be wiretaps.

 

[Tiff23fr]

I wonder if these are the forms they forged. Without any documents, it appears in the state of OH Jake legally had no rights in place. Getting the docs "notarized" but not filing them could allow them to say "we were in the process, and here is proof".

http://www.seols.org/wp-content/upl...parenting-time-parentage-fillable-packet2.pdf

https://www.lascinti.org/wp-content/uploads/Unmarried-Fathers.pdf

Also interesting: (maybe it was a paternity affidavit that was forged???)
How Can I Establish Paternity?
If you have not taken any of the steps below to establish paternity, you may not be your child’s legal father, even though you are named as the father
on the birth certificate. There are several ways to establish paternity: