OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#44

[Cool Cats]

Sorry. Having really weird strange glitches....

 

[Loomis124]

I just want to share the following website I found today. AWESOME!

All the motions being filed are in total detail! For example, under DISCOVERY on this site, look up "Defendant's Motion for Disclosure of the Juvenile Records of Plaintiff's Witnesses," which is AW's Motion #3. This document explains the motion in detail and even cites all the referenced cases.

OPD > Appellate Services > Death Penalty Department > Motions Manual

This is the Mother Lode of information for these DP cases!

 

[Betty P]

Does anyone know if the State has filed the Discovery list for FW?

I just looked at the court records and I can't understand if they gave her lawyer the list or not. Would someone look and give me their opinion? Thanks

It is public information so I don't know why we couldn't obtain the list.

IDK. Recall she was asking for transcripts of the Grand Jury deliberations and a lot of other really unusual stuff. JMO only, but I think some of these requests are more an intimidation tactic, a way of sending a message to a grand jury member or potential witness that they had better shut up or face the wrath of FW. It's part of the game they're also playing with requests for juvenile court records, etc.

Scummy people. Some of their lawyers are scummy, too.

 

[Loomis124]

Thanks for researching.

My question is if the state has given FW the discovery yet. Her lawyer filed for the discovery (according to the court records) on multiple dates. Then there is a January 10th listing of 'Identification of Discovery Provided Filed".

Does that January 10th entry mean that the discovery list has been provided to the court?

I am curious what would be on her discovery list.

jmo[/QUOTE

Yes. It was shared on here by poster Myland and quickly removed. I managed to type it out and share here, but got in trouble for it.

It her Amazon purchases for certain periods of time and some other things.

 

[sunshineray]

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/eservices/search.page.3?x=WhtDcU2Fd33dSHEADkcxMw

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/eservices/search.page.3.1?x=cQlii2PiaTI-NdzDDwpL9g

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/eservices/search.page.3.2?x=ZmX3hlxImZpZ6CVciX6oyg

Thanks CoolCats! I guess I was on the wrong site.

 

[Puzzles8]

I just want to share the following website I found today. AWESOME!

All the motions being filed are in total detail! For example, under DISCOVERY on this site, look up "Defendant's Motion for Disclosure of the Juvenile Records of Plaintiff's Witnesses," which is AW's Motion #3. This document explains the motion in detail and even cites all the referenced cases.

OPD > Appellate Services > Death Penalty Department > Motions Manual

This is the Mother Lode of information for these DP cases!

Thank you Loomis, this is a great resource!

 

[sunshineray]

Possibly their well. I will have to look into it but as far as I know there is photo evidence of items discovered in a well on their property. I mean photos turned over to the defense as discovery evidence in the case.

If it was found at the Peterson property wouldn't it have definitely been listed on Jake's discovery, being as he was a co-owner?

 

[Betty P]

I just want to share the following website I found today. AWESOME!

All the motions being filed are in total detail! For example, under DISCOVERY on this site, look up "Defendant's Motion for Disclosure of the Juvenile Records of Plaintiff's Witnesses," which is AW's Motion #3. This document explains the motion in detail and even cites all the referenced cases.

OPD > Appellate Services > Death Penalty Department > Motions Manual

This is the Mother Lode of information for these DP cases!

Thanks for this link, Loomis. It will save us a lot of headaches trying to interpret these motions. Most of us assumed these were standard motions to make in DP cases, so turns out right.

Some of the motions they've made may end up being overruled or irrelevant, but the attorneys want to file them anyway.
WRT the juvenile records for challenging witnesses, I don't see how any of that will be relevant to the Rhoden case. Most of the potential witnesses I can think of (along with the killers) are well beyond their juvenile years. Seems unlikely there would be anything relevant from several to a dozen years in the past that could be ruled as causing witness bias against a defendant. It's been a long time since any of the Wagners were high school age.

JMO, it's just attorneys grasping at anything they can bring up in court to unfairly make a witness look bad or intimidate them in advance of the trial.

Thanks again for finding this! I'm bookmarking the link, but we may want to save it in the Media & Timelines section, too.

 

[sunshineray]

What did the Wagners tell the police about were they was at the time of the murders
Their Alibi has anyone seen it. I would like to here the Wagners Alibis.

I found this, I know it's CA law but it probably the same nationwide.

"The legal defense of alibi is different from legal defenses such as
California self-defense laws or the legal defense of duress.

These defenses are "affirmative defenses." Affirmative defenses must be proved by the defense rather than by the prosecution. To succeed on an affirmative defense, you must prove the facts beyond a "preponderance of the evidence."4 This means it is more likely than not that the defendant has a valid defense.

The defense of alibi is not an affirmative defense. A defendant does not have the burden to prove an alibi. An alibi defense is asserted to raise a reasonable doubt as to whether the defendant could have been the one who committed the crime."

So it's possible that alibis may never come out at the trials. Defendants don't have to prove they were somewhere else besides the crime scene, the prosecution has to prove they were there.

"Alibi" as a defense in criminal law

 

[StrangeOne]

Do we know where the minor children were placed?

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

What did the Wagners tell the police about were they was at the time of the murders
Their Alibi has anyone seen it. I would like to here the Wagners Alibis.

I never thought about this very much because IMO they said they were home. It was in the middle of the night.

Do we know where the minor children were placed?

No way

 

[IType]

Another question:

Just curious, but does anyone think the Rhoden family survivors, etc. will file a civil suit against the W's?

I hope they do. What do you all think?

It is my opinion that civil suits couldn't be filed yet because of the gag order--none of the evidence/arguments against any of the W4, FW or RN could be presented without violating the gag order. Plus, I would also think if evidence/arguments were made public at this point, it could be damaging to the Prosecution's efforts to convict the W4. I would think that if the Rhodens/Manleys/Gilleys tried to file civil suit(s)s now, their attorney(s) would advise them to wait until after the murder cases are resolved.

Also, the only one with any money is FW. I would think the only way a civil suit against her could ever be won is if it comes to light that she knew about the murders ahead of time and did nothing to stop them. JMO

 

[Betty P]

It is my opinion that civil suits couldn't be filed yet because of the gag order--none of the evidence/arguments against any of the W4, FW or RN could be presented without violating the gag order. Plus, I would also think if evidence/arguments were made public at this point, it could be damaging to the Prosecution's efforts to convict the W4. I would think that if the Rhodens/Manleys/Gilleys tried to file civil suit(s)s now, their attorney(s) would advise them to wait until after the murder cases are resolved.

Also, the only one with any money is FW. I would think the only way a civil suit against her could ever be won is if it comes to light that she knew about the murders ahead of time and did nothing to stop them. JMO

I'm not sure about the gag order. I'm not sure it affects the victims to that degree, nor was I proposing they file suit now. I do hope the surviving family members pursue a civil suit at the earliest convenience.

 

[KentuckyMama]

Depends on how long it drags on. I'll find some examples. The other alternative is that the Mods create a new thread when the trial begins, but it would be the same as this - no place to organize evidence, photos, trial docs, etc.

Some older examples of sub forums for single criminal cases:

Rebecca Zahau Nalepa

Kyron Horman

West Memphis III

Subs like these above are difficult for the Mods to monitor, etc. so they don't create them as often as before. If we were to convince them to create one for us, we would have to manage it carefully and not have too many topics going, too many discussions where people might be posting things that violate rules, etc.

I think it would be helpful to have a separate thread for each person's trial. Since all trials will be individual, it would be easier to track each in their own thread. Easier to search and keep up to date. All six together is going to be overwhelming.

 

[IType]

I'm not sure about the gag order. I'm not sure it affects the victims to that degree, nor was I proposing they file suit now. I do hope the surviving family members pursue a civil suit at the earliest convenience.

I understand. I, too, hope that civil suits will be filed--especially to help provide for the children's futures.

 

[Betty P]

I think it would be helpful to have a separate thread for each person's trial. Since all trials will be individual, it would be easier to track each in their own thread. Easier to search and keep up to date. All six together is going to be overwhelming.

Thanks! If they are tried separately, that would be the easiest way to handle it. Maybe the RN and FW trials can be combined or covered in General Discussion. The others are more complex with so many charges.

 

[Deleted member 239597]

Probably. Our first indication will be in how Fred Wagner handles her case. She and Rita's cases will probably be resolved before the others. I'm guessing FW will deny family involvement in the murders. She may acknowledge trying to do something with the custody documents, but will claim it had nothing to do with the murders.

They NEED to come first they did not waive their right to a speedy trial. If it goes past the275 days for a felony then they can dismiss the case if there is no good reason found that it went beyond the date because of a Lack of A speedy trial. GwIII and AW both got a dismissal previous to this on Felony's due to lack of a speedy trial. This is a possibility and it scares me because neither RN nor FW filed to waive their rights to a speedy trial. Time is of the essence there.

 

[Deleted member 239597]

Since FW is not being charged with anything to do with the custody documents I think her attorney will object to any kind of questioning that goes anywhere near this.

And again (all my 2 cents) I think FW's attorney will strongly object to any questions that go anywhere near the subject of murder.

Her attorney, for all his bluster, is very experienced and will keep the trial down to simple "brass tacks"...ie...Fred didn't understand/hear correctly/know anything about/answered as honestly she could...etc... About anything that has to do with the 2 bulletproof vests.

I agree and it doesn't stand with me personally. Hopefully because it doesn't stand with an untrained person, the professionals can quiet anything about her lack of hearing and lack of understanding. She sure hears and understands well enough to run her Horse farm or the Church business...In my opinion if she is running all those businesses she sure has great enough hearing and understanding to know what goes on in her own home considering she runs that first and foremost.

She also understands how politics work when it comes to how much clout one has when they are worth 2 million whether in cash or assets. Not only this, she understands how the court works.

 

[Betty P]

They NEED to come first they did not waive their right to a speedy trial. If it goes past the275 days for a felony then they can dismiss the case if there is no good reason found that it went beyond the date because of a Lack of A speedy trial. GwIII and AW both got a dismissal previous to this on Felony's due to lack of a speedy trial. This is a possibility and it scares me because neither RN nor FW filed to waive their rights to a speedy trial. Time is of the essence there.

Yes, I think the deadline for trial is July 31, 2019.

Second Rhoden murder suspect pleads not guilty - The Record Herald

 

[Deleted member 239597]

I just want to share the following website I found today. AWESOME!

All the motions being filed are in total detail! For example, under DISCOVERY on this site, look up "Defendant's Motion for Disclosure of the Juvenile Records of Plaintiff's Witnesses," which is AW's Motion #3. This document explains the motion in detail and even cites all the referenced cases.

OPD > Appellate Services > Death Penalty Department > Motions Manual

This is the Mother Lode of information for these DP cases!

Thank you for this! It does have one thing I was trying to put together my own thoughts on.