OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#45

[Tiff23fr]

If she was falsifying paperwork (not sure she was at this point) who were the attorneys, judges, clerks, etc. who helped process that paperwork?

I'm not saying it was false. I would however go back and look at it all from the beginning. Actually, prior to the Flying W beginning.

 

[Merrygirl]

No way will the state allow concurrent trials!!! If each defendant pointed to one of the others and says they done it, and each of the four pointed to a different person, well I could see that as reasonable doubt. Meaning a juror might think ‘yeah someone in this family done it, but I not sure if the defendant I am judging did. No way would the state allow one trial and 4 juror pools! Not even sure the defense would be keen on that process

It’s been done before in Our county for 3 defendants!

 

[Betty P]

I'm not saying it was false. I would however go back and look at it beginning with political graveyard archives.

Oh, absolutely! Sorry I misunderstood. Yes, she's in need of a major audit of her finances, legal dealings, transactions, etc. I'm guessing that's been done, don't you think? AC is sitting on a lot of incriminating info.

FW still has some influence with powerful people, though. She and/or her attorneys were able to get that big profile in the Plain Dealer. The Oxygen special probably didn't happen by accident either.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Oh, absolutely! Sorry I misunderstood. Yes, she's in need of a major audit of her finances, legal dealings, transactions, etc. I'm guessing that's been done, don't you think? AC is sitting on a lot of incriminating info.

It probably has been. Note I edited my initial response with the reason why I stated what I did.

 

[Puzzles8]

I don't recall anyone saying he was mentally deficient. I mentioned that I think he may have had a TBI, or may possibly have a personality disorder, but neither of those are equal to having low intelligence, or being "mentally deficient".

Mental Deficiency: Legal Definition of mental deficiency. Failure in intellectual development that is marked by low intelligence or mental retardation and that may result in an inability to function competently in society. More from Merriam-Webster on mental deficiency.
Definition of MENTAL DEFICIENCY

ODD for example;
It appears that some children will outgrow some aspects of ODD. For example, adefiant teen may grow into a more easy-to-get-along-with adult. However, other behaviors may be life long. An aggressive two year old will very likely be an aggressive adult.

The Facts About Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) and ADHD

TBI - http://www.traumaticbraininjury.com/understanding-tbi/what-is-traumatic-brain-injury/

He also may also have a learning disability like dyslexia. Maybe why he couldn't get past 7th grade. Sadly many people with learning disabilities are never correctly diagnosed and never get help they need.
Then again, a learning disability never justify's cold blooded murder.

 

[rsd1200]

He also may also have a learning disability like dyslexia. Maybe why he couldn't get past 7th grade. Sadly many people with learning disabilities are never correctly diagnosed and never get help they need.
Then again, a learning disability never justify's cold blooded murder.

True, none of it excuses murder. Anyone with any of the above knows it's wrong to murder people. Some people will be more impulsive than others, some very impulsive, with certain diags, but, this was not an impulsive act. The only thing that I could see, is him having difficulties being a "mastermind". He doesn't really strike me as a "mastermind" but, then again, maybe he might have been (they are in jail right now... so that speaks to not planning very well past the actual acts of murder).

Mastermind; a person who supplies the directing or creative intelligence for a project.
Definition of MASTERMIND

 

[Myland]

Jmo but why is the state dragging their feet in all this. Why not just turn everything over and get it done? Even when given the opportunity to file a written motion against Fredericka’s request to go to the church they don’t do it. Jmo

 

[IType]

Does anyone think it is possible that FWs attorney is truly telling what he believes is the truth, that the vests were bought after murders? He truly thinks they were bought afterward because that is all FW told him...when in reality she's been lying to him all along. I guess what I mean is, does he truly buy FW's line of BS?

 

[Tiff23fr]

So Rita initially gets 54 of her 93 pages of testimony and Fredericka gets 8 of her 94. That is a pretty big difference. Makes me think Rita's is more about the documents and Fredericka's is much more broad.

To build this out a bit..
Rita is in quite a predicament. If she notarized these not knowing the events to happen, she still broke the law. She has been a notary long enough to know the laws around fulfilling that role. Her penalty could possibly be reduced with a plea deal. Yet, if she shares all the details around notarizing them, she may very well be putting a very significant piece in place for the states case against her daughter.

She is in a lose lose situation and I think her and her attorney see it.

"While Gerlach brought up the request during Newcomb's previous pretrial hearing, he chose not to file a motion because "we've got so many more important matters" to focus on and her son feeding the animals has been "working out," he said after the hearing."

Prosecution 'shocked' by defense attorney in Rhoden murder case

 

[Puzzles8]

Oh, absolutely! Sorry I misunderstood. Yes, she's in need of a major audit of her finances, legal dealings, transactions, etc. I'm guessing that's been done, don't you think? AC is sitting on a lot of incriminating info.

FW still has some influence with powerful people, though. She and/or her attorneys were able to get that big profile in the Plain Dealer. The Oxygen special probably didn't happen by accident either.

Oh, I would LOVE to do that audit (given the help of RAISINISBACK and IQuestion of course!)

 

[Myland]

Does anyone think it is possible that FWs attorney is truly telling what he believes is the truth, that the vests were bought after murders? He truly thinks they were bought afterward because that is all FW told him...when in reality she's been lying to him all along. I guess what I mean is, does he truly buy FW's line of BS?

Jmo he could really believe the story. He entered receipts with purchase dates of 5/7/16 into evidence jmo

 

[Tiff23fr]

BTW.. exhibit at bottom
Prosecution 'shocked' by defense attorney in Rhoden murder case

 

[Betty P]

To build this out a bit..
Rita is in quite a predicament. If she notarized these not knowing the events to happen, she still broke the law. She has been a notary long enough to know the laws around fulfilling that role. Her penalty could possibly be reduced with a plea deal. Yet, if she shares all the details around notarizing them, she may very well be putting a very significant piece in place for the states case against her daughter.

She is in a lose lose situation and I think her and her attorney see it.

"While Gerlach brought up the request during Newcomb's previous pretrial hearing, he chose not to file a motion because "we've got so many more important matters" to focus on and her son feeding the animals has been "working out," he said after the hearing."

Prosecution 'shocked' by defense attorney in Rhoden murder case

Yes, that's probably the end result the prosecution is seeking. The charges against the grandmothers, while serious, are also leverage to get them to plea bargain and save themselves, possibly pressuring their families to do the same.

Yes, it's a tough spot to be in, but not nearly as tough as that of Geneva Rhoden, Hannah Gilley's mom, Gary's (now deceased) dad Kenneth, etc.

I'm curious about how much RN knew about the murders. If these custody papers were forged after the murders, didn't she wonder why they would need them if Jake was already going to get full custody of S? Didn't she question the need for forged docs?

We still have a lot to learn about RN's case.

 

[NWLady]

I think I heard correctly AC said something about no more "intake" at the group home, which JMO may mean that they can not take in any more people there, and church is no longer being held either. When Judge agreed to allow FW to go to group home and to church, then FW's lawyer wanted it added in that she be able to go to church no matter what time of day church was (LOL). Well......the Judge didn't go for that either....he kept the church time frame to specific times (I believe he said 1:30 to 3:30 p.m.) This is all JMO, MOO.

And Owen reminds me of a saying my grandma always use to say..... the more you stir in sh**, the more it stinks. But yet, he just keeps stirring the pot. JMO

 

[Myland]

Trial date set for grandmother accused of forgery, perjury in Rhoden and Gilley murders

Forgery at bottom of article

 

[Tiff23fr]

Yes, that's probably the end result the prosecution is seeking. The charges against the grandmothers, while serious, are also leverage to get them to plea bargain and save themselves, possibly pressuring their families to do the same.

Yes, it's a tough spot to be in, but not nearly as tough as that of Geneva Rhoden, Hannah Gilley's mom, Gary's (now deceased) dad Kenneth, etc.

I'm curious about how much RN knew about the murders. If these custody papers were forged after the murders, didn't she wonder why they would need them if Jake was already going to get full custody of S? Didn't she question the need for forged docs?

We still have a lot to learn about RN's case.

This is the first I have read, other than a prior poster today, that they were forged after. Can you expand?

I was still under the impression they were forged apx. April 3 as on the indictment.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...-Prosecutions/PikeCountyAdditionalIndictments

 

[Betty P]

BTW.. exhibit at bottom
Prosecution 'shocked' by defense attorney in Rhoden murder case

Deering denied the motion to dismiss making clear his decision was not to be construed as an opinion on the evidence but instead because the motion was made prematurely before the prosecution has been able to present its case at trial.

As for the gag order, Deering did not issue a ruling since Owen and Canepa have agreed to meet to jointly come up with an agreement on what can and cannot be discussed about the case publicly. In the interim, Owen told Deering he has agreed to not make any statements about the evidence outside of court to the media.

We'll need to keep a close eye on that gag order, because Owen is trying to get a mistrial or something. He's shady as can be.

Judge Deering still seems uncomfortable challenging the local status quo. He seems to be walking on egg shells. I realize he doesn't want the case to get tossed, but maybe he should relax a little.

 

[Loomis124]

I haven't had time to watch today's hearing yet but have a question. Is Owen/FW claiming that she purchased the one vest FROM the Spartan Armor Systems company directly or just that she purchased a Spartan.....vest? The company has distributors. TIA

 

[Dudly]

Yes, some of you were talking about that the other day. Good theory! You may be right! Perhaps that's another example of Owens half-truths - saying the vest were manufactured later, when it was actually the plates.

He's throwing a few different excuses at the wall to see what sticks. First he argued the evidence should be thrown out because the BPV's were made after the murders. Then he said the evidence should be thrown out because it isn't related to the murders. Who was it here who earlier referred to it as "the dog ate my homework" argument?

Guy uses some very convoluted logic in his arguments, but the judge didn't buy it. IANAL, but it all seems very unprofessional.

Apparently the judge read the same cases Owens cited but didn't see the same things that Owens did. All that arm flapping, patting St. Granny on the shoulder, and extensive blathering didn't help much. AC was prepared again and the judge wasn't buying the story time put on by Owens... And a good time was had by most of us...

 

[Tiff23fr]

From the Exhibit:

Fredericka claims something couldn't be left outside because she feared it might be stolen.

She states she purchased leg covers and all and was apx $1,000.

States receipts were printed and she should have brought them.

She references a "him" in her testimony