OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#45

[rsd1200]

The biggest things that bother me about the vests are that they admit they were all very active with hunting. We all know about the horses. Those vests are used often with both. It would make sense that they would all have them. What doesn't make sense is FW story. If you were so worried about "them" coming to kill your kids and grandkids, wouldn't she have gotten all them all vests if no one had one? Why bother with bullet proof vests when all of the victims were shot in the head? Wouldn't it make more sense to just move them all in your house and hire security?

BBM
It would make sense. I got to thinking, with that many horses, they'd probably have more than two around. One hanging in the riding barns, an extra next to the stud barn, etc... and a couple in the closet w/their hunting gear. So the two sets that someone bought, are being said, by FW, to have been bought as protection for G3 (b/c he was friends w/CR1, and maybe it was thought that G3 knew something).

Fredericka Wagner "later added that she bought both vests for her son, fearing one would not fit. She bought her son two different kinds because if it didn’t fit or he didn’t like one, she could send it back". FW said of G3 "he wore it a little bit" to humor her. RW refused to wear one, so it would appear that the two vests were for G3, to choose from. The BPVs were found, over a year, after the murders. I guess they forgot to send back the one he didn't wear.

Note; G4 is 6'1" and 250#, JW is 6'1 and 165#, and G3 is 6'6 and 274# per booking at their respective county jails. I'd like to know the sizes of the vests.

Pike County massacre: Wagner grandmas head back to court - will charges be dropped against 1?

Honestly, I'd never think to hire security. I'd not wear a BPV. Be more alert? Absolutely. Carry? Highly likely. Move in w/my mil? I'd rather make a machine gun nest, in my own home.

 

[rsd1200]

FW's attorney keeps repeating that these bpv's were purchased 15 days after the homicides. He references Reader stating they cannot protect the citizens of pike county and then suggests they arm themselves.

My question is is can anyone reference exactly when Reader made those statements for the citizens of pike county to arm themselves. My memory may have failed me but didnt he say this a day after the murders? If so why then did it take FW two weeks to heed his advice? If she was as concerned as she makes herself out to be wouldnt she have purchased these things as soon as it was mentioned?

This was released 4/25/2016 and it was for the press conference on the day before (Sunday).

Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader said he has spoken with members of the Rhoden family.

“I cautioned them that they were a target and I told them to be armed,” Reader said. “For the other citizens of this county, I don’t believe that there is an issue. I’ve taken the precautionary measures to contact other sheriffs.”

“If you are fearful, arm yourself,” Reader told the residents of Pike County. “If you feel you need to protect yourself or family, do so.”

AG: Pot grow operations found at Pike County crime scenes; killings were planned, methodical

There's video of his remarks here;

Sheriff to Ohio Residents Where 8 People Were Killed: ‘If You Are Fearful, Arm Yourself’

 

[Cool Cats]

FW's attorney keeps repeating that these bpv's were purchased 15 days after the homicides. He references Reader stating they cannot protect the citizens of pike county and then suggests they arm themselves.

My question is is can anyone reference exactly when Reader made those statements for the citizens of pike county to arm themselves. My memory may have failed me but didnt he say this a day after the murders? If so why then did it take FW two weeks to heed his advice? If she was as concerned as she makes herself out to be wouldnt she have purchased these things as soon as it was mentioned?

Sheriff Reader told the family at the time of the murders to arm themselves, 2 days later he announced it to the public, Sunday, April 24th. Good point: why didn't Fred
order them immediately after the murders, why wait 2 whole weeks? So why she supposedly waited that long is just another piece of the puzzle. But did she really order them 15 days later? Did she really order them at all? The puzzle may never get completed or put another way----some pieces are missing!

Sheriff to relatives of slain Ohio family: Arm yourselves
By Andrea Noble - The Washington Times - Monday, April 25, 2016

Relatives of the family members gunned down in series of planned attacks on four rural Ohio homes were told by law enforcement officials that they are in danger and should arm themselves.

Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader said Sunday the Rhoden family was targeted for the shootings, which killed eight people, and that family members should take precautions.

“I cautioned them that they were a target and I told them to be armed,” Sheriff Reader said.

 

[ColMustard]

The biggest things that bother me about the vests are that they admit they were all very active with hunting. We all know about the horses. Those vests are used often with both. It would make sense that they would all have them. What doesn't make sense is FW story. If you were so worried about "them" coming to kill your kids and grandkids, wouldn't she have gotten all them all vests if no one had one? Why bother with bullet proof vests when all of the victims were shot in the head? Wouldn't it make more sense to just move them all in your house and hire security?

I've never known hunters to use a BPV, and the only horsemen I've seen with anything resembling a vest is the 'flak' vest bull/bronc riders use in rodeos. Not a true flak vest, but more of a padded vest, like stuntmen use.

Doesn't make sense because it's fantasy.

 

[Niner]

Friday, March 29th:
*Pretrial Hearing (see below) (@ 1:30pm ET) - OH - Pike County 8 people dead: Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (40), his ex-wife, Dana Manley Rhoden (37), their three children, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden (20), Christopher Jr. (16), Hanna Mae (19); Frankie's fiancée, Hannah Hazel Gilley (20), Christopher Rhoden Sr.'s brother, Kenneth Rhoden (44), & a cousin, Gary Rhoden (38). Hanna Rhoden's baby girl (5 days old), another baby (6 mos) and a young child (3) were unharmed. (April 21-22, 2016, Pebbles) – Only for *George Washington "Billy" Wagner III (47), (Jakes’ father) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18), charged (11/15/18) & arraigned (12/4/18) with 8 counts aggravated murder, (plus gun specifications on each), 1 count conspiracy, 4 counts aggravated burglary, 1 count unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, 3 counts evidence tampering, 1 count forgery, 1 count unauthorized use of property, 1 count interception of wire, oral or electronic communication, 1 count obstructing justice, 1 count engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Was arrested in Lexington, Ky., remains in the Lexington Fayette County Jail as a “fugitive from another state” according to jail records. An extradition hearing will be scheduled for him.
12/4/18: Arraignment hearing: Plead not guilty to all 22 charges. No bond per Judge. Waives speedy trial. Next pretrial hearing on 1/17/19.
1/17/19 Update: Defense files 41 motions; Judge grants indefinitely the amount of time for pretrial motions. Next pretrial hearing on 3/29.

 

[Niner]

Updates in red

Thursday, March 28th:
*Hearings see below (@ am ET) - OH - Pike County 8 people dead: Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (40), his ex-wife, Dana Manley Rhoden (37), their three children, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden (20), Christopher Jr. (16), Hanna Mae (19); Frankie's fiancée, Hannah Hazel Gilley (20), Christopher Rhoden Sr.'s brother, Kenneth Rhoden (44), & a cousin, Gary Rhoden (38). Hanna Rhoden's baby girl (5 days old), another baby (6 mos) and a young child (3) were unharmed. (April 21-22, 2016, Pebbles) –
*Pretrial & Motions Hearing (@ 1:30pm ET) - Only for *Fredericka Carol Wagner (76) (Paternal grandmother) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18) , charged & arraigned (11/15/18) with 1 count of perjury & 1 count of obstruction of justice. Plead not guilty. $100K Surety bond.
Wagner was released from the Pike County Jail Thursday (11/15/18) night on a $100,000 surety bond. To be fingerprinted at Pike Co Sheriff's office. To have no contact with any members of victims' family. Will be under electronically monitored house arrest. Should not leave her premises except for consulting with her lawyer, medical appointments, however she must document in advance any reason to leave which must be approved. Must notify pretrial services officer when she leaves. May leave for court hearing. Not to use alcohol or controlled substances, she may take prescriptions prescribed by licensed physician.
Had Arraignment hearing on 11/15.
On Tuesday (11/27/18), Fredricka Wagner's attorney, James Owen, filed a motion to modify her bond "to allow her to leave her residence during normal work hours to travel to her place of employment." Which will be heard on 1/10/19.
12/20/18 Update: Pretrial & Motions hearing on 1/10/19.
1/10/19 Update: Next Pretrial hearing on 3/28.
3/28/19 Update: State opposes modification of bond. Court is allowing her to travel to Crystal Springs home. Will also permit her to go to Lucasville Mission Church, if church services are being held there. She will be monitored by the court. In that same motion, defense was asking for a complete removal of the ankle bracelet to allow Wagner free travel in Pike and Scioto counties. Deering denied this part of the motion. Motion to Dismiss: Defense arguing: Saying statement made to GJ has to be material. Purchased 15 days after homicide. Has to be about how the homicide was committed. He says since the BPV was purchased after murders, it's not relevant/material. Contesting perjury charge saying "I guess I did/I thought I did" isn't a false statement. She misremembered. Atty says FW buys a lot of stuff online, took a long time to sort through it. Denied motion to dismiss because the evidence cited is relevant. Perjury charges still stand. Final pretrial June 26 @ 1:30pm. Trial July 29 week - Aug 1-2 @ 8:30 am. April 30 deadline for discovery -Defense attorney Owens wants to make it May 15. Discovery has not been received, will meet in mid-April to discuss. Attorneys agree on gag order.
*Pretrial Hearing (@ 10am ET) - Only for *Rita Jo Newcomb (65) (Maternal grandmother) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18), charged & arraigned (11/15/18) with 3 counts forgery, 1 count obstructing justice & 1 count perjury. Plead not guilty. $50K Surety bond.
DA alleges Newcomb lied to the Grand Jury & forged custody papers before the murders.
To place her under electronic monitor/house arrest. RN gives her mother's address. Court sets monetary bond at $50,000, will permit cash surety or 10% deposit. Will be under electronically monitored house arrest at her mother’s in South Webster, Ohio. To be put into Pre-Trial Services program. Can leave for medical emergencies, lawyer appointments, medical appointments. Must clear everything with Pre-Trial Services officer. Must keep Pre-Trial Services officer advised of her current address. With exception of medications prescribed by licensed physician for her, not to consume alcohol or controlled substances.
Had Arraignment hearing on 11/15. 11/20/18: Posted bond, released from jail. pretrial hearing set for 1/10.
1/10/19 Update: Pretrial hearing on 3/28.
3/28/19 Update: Final pretrial on June 14 @ 1:30pm. Her trial is scheduled for July 8 – 11.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

unless there is evidence these BPVs were used in the murders, they won't be useful in the conviction of the W4. JMO

There are good reasons for having them, remember the Sheriff's call to defend oneself. It's a personal choice like owning defensive weapons.

Why having just 2? Well, there are plenty of reasons. One likes them, the other not. They are expansive, ...and so on.

I do hope there is more to the perjury case against FW than just that. She is of a certain age, it's normal not to remember every detail. I am much younger than her, i don't keep receipts for items. Ebay or Amazon, I receive the item by mail, I might not remember.

 

[Betty P]

unless there is evidence these BPVs were used in the murders, they won't be useful in the conviction of the W4. JMO

There are good reasons for having them, remember the Sheriff's call to defend oneself. It's a personal choice like owning defensive weapons.

Why having just 2? Well, there are plenty of reasons. One likes them, the other not. They are expansive, ...and so on.

I do hope there is more to the perjury case against FW than just that. She is of a certain age, it's normal not to remember every detail. I am much younger than her, i don't keep receipts for items. Ebay or Amazon, I receive the item by mail, I might not remember.

All true, loss of memory isn't unusual, but if you read the transcript of the GJ hearing, it seems obvious she wasn't being truthful. She couldn't even recall anything about what she ordered, where it came from, etc. She was drawing a blank about the whole thing. She kept asking the prosecutor to tell her what was in the order, etc. It appeared obvious, JMO, she wasn't the one who ordered these things, but was trying to say she was.

BBM
It would make sense. I got to thinking, with that many horses, they'd probably have more than two around. One hanging in the riding barns, an extra next to the stud barn, etc... and a couple in the closet w/their hunting gear. So the two sets that someone bought, are being said, by FW, to have been bought as protection for G3 (b/c he was friends w/CR1, and maybe it was thought that G3 knew something).

Fredericka Wagner "later added that she bought both vests for her son, fearing one would not fit. She bought her son two different kinds because if it didn’t fit or he didn’t like one, she could send it back". FW said of G3 "he wore it a little bit" to humor her. RW refused to wear one, so it would appear that the two vests were for G3, to choose from. The BPVs were found, over a year, after the murders. I guess they forgot to send back the one he didn't wear.

Note; G4 is 6'1" and 250#, JW is 6'1 and 165#, and G3 is 6'6 and 274# per booking at their respective county jails. I'd like to know the sizes of the vests.

Pike County massacre: Wagner grandmas head back to court - will charges be dropped against 1?

Honestly, I'd never think to hire security. I'd not wear a BPV. Be more alert? Absolutely. Carry? Highly likely. Move in w/my mil? I'd rather make a machine gun nest, in my own home.

In the supplemental discovery, it says one of the vests was six 2XL. JMO, he bought the vests because he'd had to destroy his old one after the murders and wanted a new one. Maybe he was paranoid about LE or Rhoden family members & friends after the killings. Odd having body armour like other people wear sunglasses or a jacket. Going to a lot of big parks, I know plenty of people with horses or who go hiking regularly in the woods. None of them wear body armour. That's not typical, JMO.

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

Didn’t you catch it today they got Fredricka to omit that she uses the church address their letting her hang her self, JMO

Not exactly, AC said the church and her ‘shared’ the same box number. As I understand it isn’t separate for her to use as an alternative address

 

[Jayejayehilltop]

There is no way Fred ordered or bought those vests. She didn't even know what they were called or what they were for. I don't care if you are an expert on something or not, if you order it online you are going to remember what it is called. You are going to read the description of the product which tells you what it is for and how it is used and mentions the name of it every other word so it gets stuck in your mind. That is standard advertising for products. You don't just look at a picture then click the buy button. No one does that. She is lying in that grand jury testimony about being the one who bought them and why they were bought. She is covering and taking the fall for Billy who probably used her account wit h or without her knowledge to buy them.

JMO

I couldn't agree more raisinisback!

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

unless there is evidence these BPVs were used in the murders, they won't be useful in the conviction of the W4. JMO

There are good reasons for having them, remember the Sheriff's call to defend oneself. It's a personal choice like owning defensive weapons.

Why having just 2? Well, there are plenty of reasons. One likes them, the other not. They are expansive, ...and so on.

I do hope there is more to the perjury case against FW than just that. She is of a certain age, it's normal not to remember every detail. I am much younger than her, i don't keep receipts for items. Ebay or Amazon, I receive the item by mail, I might not remember.

I agree, I also believe my 80 yo mother would buy them if she thought I was in danger. Based solely on the transcript I see nothing that would cause an unbiased person to consider perjury. 4 weeks ago I ordered some computer cables online. I think ebay, but could have been Amazon, or even Walmart.com. If there is a date on the vests dated after the murders, I don’t see what FW lied about. I think this is a pressure tactic by the state.

 

[Jayejayehilltop]

Do we know if he attended public schools or did Fred home school him? If she home schooled then I can see a scenario that she was really busy with the horse farm and allowed him to quit to help her. It would especially fit if maybe he was attention deficit and bored in school. The Amish only go to the eighth grade then get credit for “life experiences” working in the stores, building crafts, farm work, etc. Maybe he claimed that credit too. JMO and I am in no way diagnosing him as ADD/ADHD.

That is a very real possibility, i live in a mennonite community in pike county and it isnt just the mennonites that only go thru 8th grade. It is a farming community period and Mennonite or not you hear the kids are needed at home so they are being home schooled, and after becoming a teen i think it becomes very lax.

 

[Jayejayehilltop]

***I have great news and even greater news!*** The CourtTV (later TruTV) was purchased in Oct 2018 and announced they are reviving the channel. The REALLY GREAT news is it will be relaunching in May 2019 as a digital broadcast, just in time for the trials in July! Bring on the pizza & popcorn!

I hope direct tv carries it in my package!

 

[Jayejayehilltop]

I've never known hunters to use a BPV, and the only horsemen I've seen with anything resembling a vest is the 'flak' vest bull/bronc riders use in rodeos. Not a true flak vest, but more of a padded vest, like stuntmen use.

Doesn't make sense because it's fantasy.

I have also never known anyone that hunts that wears a BPV vest nor would want one for hunting.

 

[Jayejayehilltop]

All true, loss of memory isn't unusual, but if you read the transcript of the GJ hearing, it seems obvious she wasn't being truthful. She couldn't even recall anything about what she ordered, where it came from, etc. She was drawing a blank about the whole thing. She kept asking the prosecutor to tell her what was in the order, etc. It appeared obvious, JMO, she wasn't the one who ordered these things, but was trying to say she was.



In the supplemental discovery, it says one of the vests was six 2XL. JMO, he bought the vests because he'd had to destroy his old one after the murders and wanted a new one. Maybe he was paranoid about LE or Rhoden family members & friends after the killings. Odd having body armour like other people wear sunglasses or a jacket. Going to a lot of big parks, I know plenty of people with horses or who go hiking regularly in the woods. None of them wear body armour. That's not typical, JMO.

I too know alot of people walking thru woods, huntings etc, none wear bpv vest, for hunting they wear orange and when it is hunting season, i simply dont just go strolling around our woods. Truthfully i did not even think it was legal for joe citizen to own a bpv vest.

 

[Ann99]

I think those were Kevlar sleeves in the pics but I could be wrong.

FW stated, in speaking of Body
Armor she purchased...”something for the legs”
Maybe she purchased leg and arm “coverings “?
I’m wondering if they restrict movement a bit.

In reading about body armor, it is heavy and causes the wearer to sweat a lot.
My opinion- I’m thinking there is DNA evidence on the bpv from the person who wore it.
That’s why FW is going out of her way to explain all this about buying the vests, etc., specifically for Billy.
Maybe the vest has a huge amount of sweat, more than produced when just casually walking around PikeCounty

 

[ColMustard]

FW stated, in speaking of Body
Armor she purchased...”something for the legs”
Maybe she purchased leg and arm “coverings “?
I’m wondering if they restrict movement a bit.

In reading about body armor, it is heavy and causes the wearer to sweat a lot.
My opinion- I’m thinking there is DNA evidence on the bpv from the person who wore it.
That’s why FW is going out of her way to explain all this about buying the vests, etc., specifically for Billy.
Maybe the vest has a huge amount of sweat, more than produced when just casually walking around PikeCounty

Yes, I counted the tiles under those and they appear to be about a 34-36 inseam.

 

[Tiff23fr]

FW stated, in speaking of Body
Armor she purchased...”something for the legs”
Maybe she purchased leg and arm “coverings “?
I’m wondering if they restrict movement a bit.

In reading about body armor, it is heavy and causes the wearer to sweat a lot.
My opinion- I’m thinking there is DNA evidence on the bpv from the person who wore it.
That’s why FW is going out of her way to explain all this about buying the vests, etc., specifically for Billy.
Maybe the vest has a huge amount of sweat, more than produced when just casually walking around PikeCounty

I felt like she said, he wouldn't wear it, and then went back to say he wore it a little to humor her. My thoughts were she felt the need to add that in case his DNA was on it.

 

[Betty P]

I agree, I also believe my 80 yo mother would buy them if she thought I was in danger. Based solely on the transcript I see nothing that would cause an unbiased person to consider perjury. 4 weeks ago I ordered some computer cables online. I think ebay, but could have been Amazon, or even Walmart.com. If there is a date on the vests dated after the murders, I don’t see what FW lied about. I think this is a pressure tactic by the state.

I suggest you read the transcript from the supplemental discovery. FW couldn't even recall what she ordered, she was asking the prosecutor to tell her what it was. She's changed her story, as well. No one is accusing her of participating in the murders but it seems the state has very good evidence to indicate she wasn't being honest during her Grand Jury testimony. The prosecutor has hinted there are other problem areas. We'll find out when Fredericka's trial begins this summer.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

All true, loss of memory isn't unusual, but if you read the transcript of the GJ hearing, it seems obvious she wasn't being truthful. She couldn't even recall anything about what she ordered, where it came from, etc. She was drawing a blank about the whole thing. She kept asking the prosecutor to tell her what was in the order, etc. It appeared obvious, JMO, she wasn't the one who ordered these things, but was trying to say she was.



In the supplemental discovery, it says one of the vests was six 2XL. JMO, he bought the vests because he'd had to destroy his old one after the murders and wanted a new one. Maybe he was paranoid about LE or Rhoden family members & friends after the killings. Odd having body armour like other people wear sunglasses or a jacket. Going to a lot of big parks, I know plenty of people with horses or who go hiking regularly in the woods. None of them wear body armour. That's not typical, JMO.

BBM
it seems obvious she wasn't being truthful. She couldn't even recall anything about what she ordered, where it came from, etc. She was drawing a blank about the whole thing. She kept asking the prosecutor to tell her what was in the order, etc. It appeared obvious, JMO, she wasn't the one who ordered these things, but was trying to say she was.

I think that is why AC was sitting over at the other table with that funny little smile on her face while Owen argued that "I guess I did, I thought I did" 15 days after the murder defense. Because AC knows that is not what the perjury, obstruction of justice charges are about.

During the first pre-trial AC said "the perjury and obstruction charges stem from statements made to the GJ about BPV's". She never said the dates they were bought was in question and she never claimed the BPV's were used during the homicides. She never said it was because Fred was confused about where she bought them. She said "the charges stem from statements made to the GJ" about the vests.

When I read Fred's testimony it was obvious to me she was lying. She didn't know squat about those vests. She didn't even know what she ordered. She asked AC "what was in the order?". When asked to describe what she bought she didn't have a clue.

Let me tell you something folks, I am not hurting for money, but if I order something online and pay 1000.00 dollars for it I am sure as heck going to know what I paid for. 1000.00 is a lot of money to anyone.

I think that Fred didn't even know Billy bought the vests and when LE found them in her home she panicked and thought LE was going to say they were used in the homicides so she she started lying and covering for Billy right then by saying she bought them.

She stated that several times in her testimony. "I bought them. It was all my idea to buy them." But she didn't even know where they were bought. "I bought them, other people said I bought them on Amazon."

I think the moment AC walked out of that GJ she had investigators on the BPVs. I think they found out that Fred did not order the vests even though her accounts were used. That's when AC knew she had her for lying to the GJ and obstruction.

I am betting that AC was giving that funny little smile because she knew what Owen was arguing was not even what the issue was or the charges about.

Keep in mind that during the time the vests were bought Fred's husband was very ill. They may have Fred on camera at a Dr's office with him at the time the vests were purchased on EBay.

JMO