OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#46

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  • #361
I'm anti death penalty but it's based on my spiritual beliefs, however, even if it weren't;

Studies of the California death penalty system, the largest in the US, have revealed that a death sentence costs at least 18 times as much as a sentence of life without parole would cost.

In 2012, the National Research Council reviewed all of the deterrence studies from all sides of the issue and found there was no credible evidence that the death penalty deters murder.

Many family members who have lost love ones to murder feel that a death sentence will not heal their wounds nor provide closure. Aside from the evidence that the death penalty is not the best way to help the survivors, the huge costs of the death penalty waste money that could be used to help families put their lives back together through counseling, restitution, crime victim hotlines, and other services addressing their needs.

A sentence of life in prison without parole is in fact a sentence of death in prison. No adult sentenced to life without parole (LWOP) anywhere in the US has ever been released on parole.

The execution of an innocent person is a wrong that can never be put right. Since the 1970s, 161 people have been exonerated from death rows around the US. In many of those cases, the exoneration came after a long legal battle and thanks to the extraordinary efforts of people working outside the system. Any one of the 156 death row exonorees could have just have easily been executed.

5 Myths About the Death Penalty - Death Penalty Focus
I hear everything you're saying and agree when CoolCats says it's a tricky subject. There is food for thought on the flip side too when things like this are being proposed. You have to ask, would 15 years be sufficient for the W's IF they're convicted of even just one murder?

Pa. lawmaker aims to end life without parole sentences
 
  • #362
Most definitely, in my opinion. Do you have a link where it can be found, please? Thanks!
I'm sorry Loomis I don't. Someone tried to give it to me privately but links didn't work for me, so it's out there somewhere but I don't know how to access it.
 
  • #363
I live in a death penalty state. We are right behind Texas in executions. But I do believe it is wrong to take a life. Any life.

That includes animals. My belief is when you stand before your maker you better have a good reason for every animal life you took. If it is for food, that is acceptable. But if you wantonly kill something for pleasure or just out of pure evil I feel you will be judged for that. It is my belief that the earth and all life on it should be respected and to kill something just to be killing it is a sin against the earth we live on. But that is my belief only and I don't expect anyone to agree.

JMO

Thankx. Appreciate how you feel and feel the same. We can't ignore the elephant in the room. Well we can try.
 
  • #364
  • #365
Are they wanting juvenile records of people who served on the investigative GJ, or the juvenile record of witnesses that the investigative grand jury called to the witness stand?
 
  • #366
  • #367
In AWs discovery log, there are a few names. Do you know them?

- E.W.: is she the wife of JW or GW4 , or the second name of another W family member?
- S.M.: several phones searched. How this person fit in the picture?
 
  • #368
I live in a death penalty state. We are right behind Texas in executions. But I do believe it is wrong to take a life. Any life.

That includes animals. My belief is when you stand before your maker you better have a good reason for every animal life you took. If it is for food, that is acceptable. But if you wantonly kill something for pleasure or just out of pure evil I feel you will be judged for that. It is my belief that the earth and all life on it should be respected and to kill something just to be killing it is a sin against the earth we live on. But that is my belief only and I don't expect anyone to agree.

JMO
I agree. I feel the same, with different words, but I still do.
 
  • #369
I wonder what internet offerings they have there at those properties specifically. They are quite rural.
I think much of what we are talking about is WiFi and cloud based. Many rural areas still rely on satellite internet and I'm not sure if it has the same reliability or capability. I honestly don't know for sure. Just a curiosity.

BBM
This. There is much of Appalachia that does not have the wifi and internet services that many others have. There are parents who take their kids to high points, or to a local McDs parking lot, to look up homework. I've got friends and family who have to sit their phones in a certain corner of the house or perch them on an open windowsill, in order to rcv/send texts. I have one of the top cell phone providers in the state, but can drive a couple three miles down the road, and my signal is gone, drive up on a ridge, and signal is back. My home internet provider is a privately owned company so I do have pretty decent home internet/wifi.

What’s Lacking in Appalachia: Tales from a Broadband Connectivity Conversation - Public Knowledge

Idk how current this map is, and if Pike County was further ahead in 2016 than the rest of Appalachia, but this also gives some idea of how limited that internet/wifi access is in the region.

Internet Providers in Piketon: Compare 8 Providers | BroadbandNow.com
 
  • #370
I just noticed something. Angela and Jake have two very different versions of what the prior arrangement was. Weekly or Monthly are very different. I wonder what it actually was and why even tell different versions of that?

Rather, Jake's mother Angela Wagner said, the couple wanted to legally formalize their agreed-upon shared custody arrangement. After they split up, each parent had custody of Sophia for alternating weeks, starting on Saturdays.

Pike County: Custody battle plays role in Rhoden family massacre


Jake wrote in the custody filing why he and Hanna broke up.

“In late March 2015, Hanna decided I worked too much and that I did not have enough time for her,” Jake wrote. The document says they separated, but Sophia took turns living with both families for a month at a time.

Pike County investigation: 8 deaths and multiple arrests were tied to one key factor — child custody
 
  • #371
I agree with your opinion and I remember seeing it that way in the media somewhere. However I’ve always wondered if DS WAS supposed to meet KR early then why didn’t DS realize he was not with the rest of the family early on? Like why would he wait until afternoon to look for him? That never made sense to me.

I think DS was holding out hope that KR went to work b/c DS used staying with KR as a cover that night.
 
  • #372
That is my thought, but as a non attorney.
If you look at the bold print on that discovery page it states Persuant to criminal rule 16B.
All information collected by the state as part of a capital case, in my non attorney opinion, falls under Rule 42 and would be a separate filing and different document.
So, I have the opinion, everything listed on Angela’s Rule 16B Discovery is key to the states case.
JMO

Edit:
@gitana1 - would you be willing to tell us if Rule 16B Discovery is what the state plans to use as evidence? Above was my opinion, but it would be great to get an attorneys view. I could be completely inaccurate in my understanding.
I don’t know what state you are in, so I included the OH link and a link to the discovery in question ‘Angela Wagner’ below. Thanks for the assist.
Rule 16 B: http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/LegalResources/Rules/criminal/CriminalProcedure.pdf#page36
Discovery:
Angela Wagner
Rule 42:
http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/LegalResources/Rules/criminal/CriminalProcedure.pdf#page95

I asked someone else on this and they said it may be both mitigating and aggravating discovery.
So..I still don’t know a clear answer other than those listed are important in helping them build their defense. JMO
 
  • #373
BBM
This. There is much of Appalachia that does not have the wifi and internet services that many others have. There are parents who take their kids to high points, or to a local McDs parking lot, to look up homework. I've got friends and family who have to sit their phones in a certain corner of the house or perch them on an open windowsill, in order to rcv/send texts. I have one of the top cell phone providers in the state, but can drive a couple three miles down the road, and my signal is gone, drive up on a ridge, and signal is back. My home internet provider is a privately owned company so I do have pretty decent home internet/wifi.

What’s Lacking in Appalachia: Tales from a Broadband Connectivity Conversation - Public Knowledge

Idk how current this map is, and if Pike County was further ahead in 2016 than the rest of Appalachia, but this also gives some idea of how limited that internet/wifi access is in the region.

Internet Providers in Piketon: Compare 8 Providers | BroadbandNow.com

My guess is satellite. There is a dish attached to the porch in photos of CSR’s.
 
  • #374
The cost of prosecuting and defending the four (each have court-appointed
attorneys) is expected to exceed $4 million, according to Republican state Rep. Shane Wilkin, the Highland County Republican co-sponsoring House Bill 85.

Ohio House passes bill to help Pike County pay for mass-murder trial

Do you agree with giving people convicted of aggravated murder the death penalty? 20 States abolished it.

I'm wondering if MAXIMUM SECURITY would be a better alternative. Death row inmates in Ohio can sit there for 20 years, so why not instead just do MAXIMUM SECURITY? No, not level 2 or 3, but a lifetime of MAXIMUM SECURITY. (Level 4)

Don't get me wrong. Killing 8 people deserves the DP. But is it the best result? I don't know. I'm just throwing it out there, wondering what ya'all think. The DP is such a big thing in these trials. A very serious thing. And would it be more hurtful for Hunter and Sophia? Jake's daughter and GW4's son?
I go back and forth on this. I've seen the shows that feature (usually) men on death row, and they often report on those who seem truly remorseful and some who are living good, productive lives when the death penalty is carried out. Those shows, my heart breaks for them and for their family. On the other hand, watching the Rhoden, Gilley, Manley families suffer so, and I'm sure I can't begin to comprehend their pain, if it's determined conclusively that the accused are guilty, maybe the victims' families should get to decide. There's just no good solution. As far as the children, I don't think it'll make a difference either way. They will have to live with pain either way.
 
  • #375
All of us really know that all of them was not killed while sleeping, the Wagners didn’t get any satisfaction in that, Hanna G. Was over kill out of revenge, Dana also, and don’t think for a moment that Hannah R. Was killed while she slept, Jake wanted her to see it coming and little Chris heard it all start and was trying to hide, I don’t have a theory about Frankie being asleep but I think he was, Kenny was probably awake JMO

Sometimes Chris Jr's case alone is enough to keep me up at night, picturing that poor boy trying to hide. Heart breaking!
 
  • #376
I hear everything you're saying and agree when CoolCats says it's a tricky subject. There is food for thought on the flip side too when things like this are being proposed. You have to ask, would 15 years be sufficient for the W's IF they're convicted of even just one murder?

Pa. lawmaker aims to end life without parole sentences

No, imo, 15 years would not be nearly enough time. Before they go changing laws, the whole environment needs to be fixed. It shouldn't just be about time. Where is the opportunity and then proof that someone has been rehabilitated to a point where they can be a contributing member to society? I'm okay with them doing away with the death penalty. But, in order to be released, someone should be given the time (via a sentence) and the means by which to rehabilitate. THEN they should be required to prove their rehabilitation. It's also not enough for them merely to prove that they are not a risk to themselves or others. They need to come out of incarceration with some skills to be able to support themselves.
 
  • #377
Sometimes Chris Jr's case alone is enough to keep me up at night, picturing that poor boy trying to hide. Heart breaking!
He could’ve been asleep. Maybe when he was getting shot he fell to the side of the bed or maybe was even pushed off the side of the bed as he was shot. There’s no proof that he was “hiding”
 
  • #378
Adding to my previous post, I also think work while incarcerated should be mandatory.
 
  • #379
He could’ve been asleep. Maybe when he was getting shot he fell to the side of the bed or maybe was even pushed off the side of the bed as he was shot. There’s no proof that he was “hiding”

It doesn't really matter; although, all initial reports and LM indicated he was found between the headboard and wall "hiding." In truth, it's gruesome and hideous no matter if he was asleep or hiding.
 
  • #380
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