OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#46

[Tiff23fr]

Maybe, they thought at first that their boys were being falsely accused because of JW's link to HMR. Denial imo, is posting a pic of your son w/his hair dyed black as night, on their public, FB, farm site. It would be very hard for me to believe that my boys were capable of such a thing, because one's former fiance wasn't going to come back to him.

What if you turn them in, and they don't have enough evidence? Awkward, and potentially dangerous. Maybe once you come to the realization, you take them far away so maybe they can start a new life but that doesn't work. Iirc, AW was looking at two bedroom rentals, too, during her internet searches for AK. They come back, and wait. Talk is one thing, action is another. G3 wasn't hiding in the horse trailer. There was a horse in there and nowhere to hide in that type trailer anyway. He calmly gave it up.

I don't feel AW was an after the fact realization. I think she was involved up front and center. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Maybe, they thought at first that their boys were being falsely accused because of JW's link to HMR. Denial imo, is posting a pic of your son w/his hair dyed black as night, on their public, FB, farm site. It would be very hard for me to believe that my boys were capable of such a thing, because one's former fiance wasn't going to come back to him.

What if you turn them in, and they don't have enough evidence? Awkward, and potentially dangerous. Maybe once you come to the realization, you take them far away so maybe they can start a new life but that doesn't work. Iirc, AW was looking at two bedroom rentals, too, during her internet searches for AK. They come back, and wait. Talk is one thing, action is another. G3 wasn't hiding in the horse trailer. There was a horse in there and nowhere to hide in that type trailer anyway. He calmly gave it up.

Was AW searching and talking about AK properties before the murders also?

 

[NWLady]

I was doing some research in regards to "unavailable witness" and ran across this document that has a lot of helpful information regarding "unavailable witness." Whether it pertains to this case or not, I don't know, but rather the reason I am sharing it is because it does go into many different reasons/scenarios, etc where a witness may not be available. I was curious if a witness who is incarcerated would be considered unavailable and that is how I ran across this link (which according to this article for example, a person was considered unavailable to testify as they were incarcerated in a prison in another state which was "out of jurisdiction" and the state had "no subpoena" rights to subpoena the witness there to testify.

Again, I'm not saying any of this applies here but wanted to share the article as it is very informative.

https://scholar.valpo.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1449&context=vulr

 

[Tiff23fr]

Was AW searching and talking about AK properties before the murders also?

I have to state JMO since I can't cite this.

The days of the 20 and 21st she was looking for places and looking for jobs for the boys on public forums in Alaska.

 

[rsd1200]

Was AW searching and talking about AK properties before the murders also?

I believe, again, iirc, she started searching around the time that they were planning their family vacation. Iirc, though, more than one, had AK sites and FB "friends", other than the pastor and his fam., of course, already on their FBs. I have very similar things on my FB for my favorite vacation spot. I've met people who owned businesses, that I frequent when I go there, and they are on my friend list, and their business is on my FB list too. I don't "know" them though. I even have real estate "dream" connections on my FB. With that said, if I ever have to run away, I'd not go to ANY of the favorite places listed on my FB.

Edit: Family vacation to AK was just before the searches on 5/2017.

 

[NWLady]

Here is a link regarding Ohio - Rule 804 - and it also has some good information regarding Heresay Exceptions; Declarant Unavailable" etc

http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/LegalResources/Rules/evidence/evidence.pdf

 

[rsd1200]

I have to state JMO since I can't cite this.

The days of the 20 and 21st she was looking for places and looking for jobs for the boys on public forums in Alaska.

It never ceases to amaze me how they pulled this off. They just don't seem very bright.

 

[sunshineray]

In regard to the "unavailable witness" currently being discussed, it cannot be referring to a deceased person, based on who AW thinks it is... JMO

Analysis: Pike County murder suspect's 49 motions reveal unexpected requests

"But some requests may raise eyebrows.

"In defense motion No. 32, Wagner's attorneys said it's their understanding that prosecutors "may plan to rely on the prior testimony of a witness because the state will contend that witness is unavailable" to testify during Wagner's trial.

Wagner said she's not convinced this witness, whoever it is, is unavailable.

It's the kind of motion, about a potentially mysterious witness, that could further complicate what's already a complex murder case."

There was a famous case in Bridgeport, CT, a little boy who was a witness to a murder was killed along with his mother. A witness to who the killers of the mom and child were was deposed because she had HIV and was in her last days. She died before trial. There was a big deal made about that deposed testimony not being admissible. It was finally shown to the jury.

 

[NWLady]

FW and AW both seemed to emphasize that JW couldn't have done it. They acted so incredulous that someone might consider him a suspect.

It made me wonder if he had an ironclad alibi and allowed the others to do his bidding. Maybe they thought that BCI would look at him or him hiring a hitman but never suspecting that his parents or brother would do the crime for him.

Just jumping off your post - JMO but I "think" JW had the most motive of any for several reasons, but the most important one IMO being he shared a child with HR, therefore he more than likely had the closest relationship of the 4 W's with the Rhoden's due to this. I also feel he wanted revenge probably the worst of the 4 W's. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I have to state JMO since I can't cite this.

The days of the 20 and 21st she was looking for places and looking for jobs for the boys on public forums in Alaska.

And shopping at Walmart, on the 21st.

 

[OhioBlues]

Just jumping off your post - JMO but I "think" JW had the most motive of any for several reasons, but the most important one IMO being he shared a child with HR, therefore he more than likely had the closest relationship of the 4 W's with the Rhoden's due to this. I also feel he wanted revenge probably the worst of the 4 W's. JMO[/QUOTe[

He had the "if I can't have her then no one else will either' blues. That happens every day in the USA.

It blows my mind that a mother and father and brother would participate and plan murdering 8 people. In what world would this happen and why in the world didn't someone say that this was a horrible idea.

I hold AW as being the worst. She had a duty to her kids and grandchildren to stop this on Day 1

jmo

 

[Tiff23fr]

I don't feel AW was an after the fact realization. I think she was involved up front and center. JMO

I also keep reminding myself that while we have only seen a small glimpse, a grand jury saw enough to hand down a death penalty indictment for all 4. That tells me there must be much more to come.

 

[Cool Cats]

I also keep reminding myself that while we have only seen a small glimpse, a grand jury saw enough to hand down a death penalty indictment for all 4. That tells me there must be much more to come.

I wonder what would happen if one of them confessed to get LWOP but said Angie had nothing to do with it. You could pin it on the guys and leave out Angie. Just shopping for things at Wallmart is not enough. And I don't think she went to the crime scenes, I believe she stayed home to babysit and create an alibi that they were home that night.

Now the only way any of them will cop a plea deal to avoid the DP is if the first Wagner gets tried and gets found guilty and gets the DP. Then the Wagner getting tried next will see all the evidence and may be advised to plea. But in that case what if that Wagner insisted Angie or even Jake had nothing to do with it?

What if the Wagner's had a third son living with them but they kept that son 100% in the dark? Just because they live together does not prove all are guilty. Could a defense attorney prove one was in the dark?

I'm not pro Wagner, I was just thinking about it from the defendant's view point and thinking about various scenarios......Just mulling it over......2 Cents.......

 

[Loomis124]

I also keep reminding myself that while we have only seen a small glimpse, a grand jury saw enough to hand down a death penalty indictment for all 4. That tells me there must be much more to come.

Great analysis, Tiff! I have the utmost faith in the State to have a rock-solid case against all four of the Ws for these murders.

Also, we all have to remember (IMO), they never thought for one minute--while planning and carrying out these murders--that they would ever even be suspects, let alone get caught. There was no need for one to stay home with the kids. And we have to remember there were two children, SW and BW. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

I also keep reminding myself that while we have only seen a small glimpse, a grand jury saw enough to hand down a death penalty indictment for all 4. That tells me there must be much more to come.

I wish I could "like" this post a million times!

 

[Satchie]

I agree the murderers lost their humanity to even plan this all, yet alone carry it out with such viciousness. Where that comes from, I don't know, it's so foreign to my being. Twisted, twisted minds and black souls.

This is the aspect that interests me about the psychology of it. I agree there was some type of 'trigger' to set the process of planning in motion, what I wonder is, why was the family so primed to 'go ballistic' over their hurt feelings. (Deliberate gun metaphors).

IMO there must have been a long-standing pattern of admiring gun violence as the ultimate way to solve problems like resentment or not getting what you want. Lots of 'I'll shoot that SOB', 'I'd like to blow them all away', rather than ever considering turning the other cheek, etc. So then, when someone said 'I want to kill her', it wasn't a shocking idea, the response of the others may have been more like, 'well, let's finally do it for real, instead of just talking about it'.

I think the main target was HR, the plot to kill the others may have emerged to cover up the crime: confuse police as to motive (Mexican drug gang, etc), plus remove anyone who might be able to implicate the W's. But perhaps it wasn't hard to massacre the Rhodens because the W's had a lot of hatred of others and pent-up violent fantasies of mass murder against everyone they disliked, it was like a dam busting and propelling them into it.

 

[ColMustard]

This is the aspect that interests me about the psychology of it. I agree there was some type of 'trigger' to set the process of planning in motion, what I wonder is, why was the family so primed to 'go ballistic' over their hurt feelings. (Deliberate gun metaphors).

IMO there must have been a long-standing pattern of admiring gun violence as the ultimate way to solve problems like resentment or not getting what you want. Lots of 'I'll shoot that SOB', 'I'd like to blow them all away', rather than ever considering turning the other cheek, etc. So then, when someone said 'I want to kill her', it wasn't a shocking idea, the response of the others may have been more like, 'well, let's finally do it for real, instead of just talking about it'.

I think the main target was HR, the plot to kill the others may have emerged to cover up the crime: confuse police as to motive (Mexican drug gang, etc), plus remove anyone who might be able to implicate the W's. But perhaps it wasn't hard to massacre the Rhodens because the W's had a lot of hatred of others and pent-up violent fantasies of mass murder against everyone they disliked, it was like a dam busting and propelling them into it.

Maybe some unkind comments were heard via the surveillance devices. Or they overheard how the Rs planned to beat them in a custody battle, DR's new home was a step in that direction. Murders happened a month after she moved in.

 

[Cool Cats]

This is the aspect that interests me about the psychology of it. I agree there was some type of 'trigger' to set the process of planning in motion, what I wonder is, why was the family so primed to 'go ballistic' over their hurt feelings. (Deliberate gun metaphors).

IMO there must have been a long-standing pattern of admiring gun violence as the ultimate way to solve problems like resentment or not getting what you want. Lots of 'I'll shoot that SOB', 'I'd like to blow them all away', rather than ever considering turning the other cheek, etc. So then, when someone said 'I want to kill her', it wasn't a shocking idea, the response of the others may have been more like, 'well, let's finally do it for real, instead of just talking about it'.

I think the main target was HR, the plot to kill the others may have emerged to cover up the crime: confuse police as to motive (Mexican drug gang, etc), plus remove anyone who might be able to implicate the W's. But perhaps it wasn't hard to massacre the Rhodens because the W's had a lot of hatred of others and pent-up violent fantasies of mass murder against everyone they disliked, it was like a dam busting and propelling them into it.

Billy was charged with 3 counts of receiving stolen property and also has a gun charge. The gun charge goes along with what you are saying about a possible history of a "gun mentality in solving problems."


Father charged in Pike County murders had past brushes with law
PORTSMOUTH

A Dayton Daily News examination of Billy Wagner’s life in southern Ohio shows repeated run-ins with the law on various criminal allegations. One incident remains seared in the memory of the man who says he experienced it.

Brad Uhl remembers the summer day the man in the white Jeep flashed a handgun at him, his teenage daughter, and his teenage niece during “a bit of road rage” on U.S. 23 near Lucasville, between Piketon and Portsmouth.

“It’s something you don’t forget,” Uhl said.

The incident — the details of which the Dayton Daily News is reporting for the first time — resulted in Billy Wagner pleading no contest to charges he improperly handled a loaded .40-caliber Glock handgun, according to the Portsmouth Municipal Court.

Billy Wagner’s wife, Angela Wagner, was similarly charged in the 2001 case, though records show her case was dismissed.

‘He was flashing it at us’

An Ohio State Highway Patrol investigation report shows troopers understood Uhl’s call to police as him reporting “a male driver was holding a handgun to the head of a woman passenger.”

But Uhl — contacted by the newspaper — disputes the Highway Patrol’s records in the incident. The gun was not pointed at a woman’s head, he told the newspaper, “He was flashing it at us.”

“He wouldn’t let me pass him,” Uhl said, recalling his car and the Jeep both met at a stoplight. “There was never a gun held to anyone’s head, he just held up the gun to say, ‘I mean business.’”

“The light turned green, he stood there for a second, I let him go and then made a call to the state patrol,” Uhl said.

About 15 minutes later, down the road about five miles, Uhl saw troopers pulled the driver over.

Uhl said he does not remember a woman in the car. The patrol’s records show otherwise. Both Wagners, the report indicates, were taken to the patrol post for questioning after troopers observed a black handgun in a purse on the passenger side.

Frank Gerlach — Billy Wagner’s attorney at the time — reviewed his 2001 files at the newspaper’s request. Neither Gerlach’s recollection nor his records indicate a gun was held to anyone’s head.

“I would have remembered something like that,” Gerlach said, though he acknowledged he did not recall representing Billy Wagner at all until the newspaper stopped by his Portsmouth office last week. Coincidentally, Gerlach said, he currently represents Angela Wagner’s mother on allegations she helped cover up the 2016 murders and forged custody documents.

Billy Wagner was sentenced to 30 days jail time in the 2001 case, which was suspended in lieu of one-year probation, the records show. He was also sentenced to a $100 fine and ordered to pay court costs — altogether $223. And while the gun was confiscated and ordered destroyed, Billy Wagner faced no penalty under Ohio law restricting his future use of weapons.

Full article here includes Billy's receiving stolen property charges: Father charged in Pike County murders had past brushes with law

 

[rsd1200]

Billy was charged with 3 counts of receiving stolen property and also has a gun charge. The gun charge goes along with what you are saying about a possible history of a "gun mentality in solving problems."


Father charged in Pike County murders had past brushes with law
PORTSMOUTH

A Dayton Daily News examination of Billy Wagner’s life in southern Ohio shows repeated run-ins with the law on various criminal allegations. One incident remains seared in the memory of the man who says he experienced it.

Brad Uhl remembers the summer day the man in the white Jeep flashed a handgun at him, his teenage daughter, and his teenage niece during “a bit of road rage” on U.S. 23 near Lucasville, between Piketon and Portsmouth.

“It’s something you don’t forget,” Uhl said.

The incident — the details of which the Dayton Daily News is reporting for the first time — resulted in Billy Wagner pleading no contest to charges he improperly handled a loaded .40-caliber Glock handgun, according to the Portsmouth Municipal Court.

Billy Wagner’s wife, Angela Wagner, was similarly charged in the 2001 case, though records show her case was dismissed.

‘He was flashing it at us’

An Ohio State Highway Patrol investigation report shows troopers understood Uhl’s call to police as him reporting “a male driver was holding a handgun to the head of a woman passenger.”

But Uhl — contacted by the newspaper — disputes the Highway Patrol’s records in the incident. The gun was not pointed at a woman’s head, he told the newspaper, “He was flashing it at us.”

“He wouldn’t let me pass him,” Uhl said, recalling his car and the Jeep both met at a stoplight. “There was never a gun held to anyone’s head, he just held up the gun to say, ‘I mean business.’”

“The light turned green, he stood there for a second, I let him go and then made a call to the state patrol,” Uhl said.

About 15 minutes later, down the road about five miles, Uhl saw troopers pulled the driver over.

Uhl said he does not remember a woman in the car. The patrol’s records show otherwise. Both Wagners, the report indicates, were taken to the patrol post for questioning after troopers observed a black handgun in a purse on the passenger side.

Frank Gerlach — Billy Wagner’s attorney at the time — reviewed his 2001 files at the newspaper’s request. Neither Gerlach’s recollection nor his records indicate a gun was held to anyone’s head.

“I would have remembered something like that,” Gerlach said, though he acknowledged he did not recall representing Billy Wagner at all until the newspaper stopped by his Portsmouth office last week. Coincidentally, Gerlach said, he currently represents Angela Wagner’s mother on allegations she helped cover up the 2016 murders and forged custody documents.

Billy Wagner was sentenced to 30 days jail time in the 2001 case, which was suspended in lieu of one-year probation, the records show. He was also sentenced to a $100 fine and ordered to pay court costs — altogether $223. And while the gun was confiscated and ordered destroyed, Billy Wagner faced no penalty under Ohio law restricting his future use of weapons.

Full article here includes Billy's receiving stolen property charges: Father charged in Pike County murders had past brushes with law

One thing that stood out to me in the "flashing the handgun" portion, is that AW had it in her purse. So she would have been the one to hand him the firearm. Instead of trying to diffuse the situation, she did as asked/told (?), and gave it to him. Who does that? Someone who does as their man tells them, or someone who also does not know how to diffuse a situation, but rather brings a can of gasoline to throw on the fire.

 

[Cool Cats]

One thing that stood out to me in the "flashing the handgun" portion, is that AW had it in her purse. So she would have been the one to hand him the firearm. Instead of trying to diffuse the situation, she did as asked/told (?), and gave it to him. Who does that? Someone who does as their man tells them, or someone who also does not know how to diffuse a situation, but rather brings a can of gasoline to throw on the fire.

Well, it shows one thing. Angela likely has the same "gun solves problems" mentality.