OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#47

[sunshineray]

Well, I have been reading a lot on here about Jake being the biological dad or not and I will state my own opinion even though you might not agree.

I think the Wagner's, if they did this horrible crime, are the kind of people WHO WOULD DO DNA TESTING ON ANY AND ALL CHILDREN WHO MIGHT EVEN REMOTELY BE THEIRS. I would bet my house that the Wagner's DNA tested Sophia the minute they had the chance.

I also bet my house that they DNA tested Hunter (GW4's son) the minute they had the chance!

I never thought of that. In hindsight that's a real possibility.

 

[OhioBlues]

I believe another poster posted it on here. Hmm..

Ok does anyone have a link on the baby pics?

Let me reword it then.

This wording of the Court makes me think the judge knows he is not the bio but has decided that it is in the best interest of the child to award custody to Jake because of the prior father daughter relationship between them. I just find it extremely odd that he had to do all this (statements, dragging mama in on it, having granny forge documents) when a simple DNA test would have said it all.


JMO

The wording made me think that the judge knew that JW murdered that family but his hands were tied and he couldn't change it. JW was on the birth certificate.

She will read these pages some day. She is in foster care. She lost her murder and family and her dad is in jail. Her entire family is gone. That's enough for anyone to bear. IMO.

 

[rsd1200]

I hope you don't think I'm (choose your word) but where is everyone getting the information that Jake had to provide pictures of he and Sophie together? This is weird. Clue me in.

He didn't have to bring them, but he did, as proof. Page 3 of the papers he filed for temp custody states that he is sure that she is his. He provided photos of him, and S, as toddlers, to show that she resembles him. He also mentions the "hammer toe", next to the big toe as a familial trait (loosely worded).

 

[OhioBlues]

I can only think from that, his name couldn't have been on SW's birth certificate? Wouldn't showing that have proven legally with one document what all the other things were meant to show in accumulation?

His name is on the birth certificate. They viewed SW as a possession that they had to control, they allegedly just murdered her mother and family. The mother had full custody by Ohio law. After killing 8 people, they sure as heck weren't going to risk the judge denying custody. They went overboard and to the extreme to have the court grant custody. No one gives photos etc and I would be shocked if Angela Capeta doesn't present that ridiculous document and photos in court.

These masterminds are not so smart after all. Jmo

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I cannot believe how things get entirely changed and distorted on here from where they originally began. Lord. It's like one of those gossip games played at parties where the ending story turns out to be totally different than it started. Sad.

Your exactly right Loomis24 it is out of hand over if Jake the Killer is SW real father or not, it don’t matter the Rhoden Family was apparently killed of custody of her anyway,I don’t think the Wagners where planning a trip to Alaska at all to need full SW custody , that’s another one of their lies they ran to Alaska to get out of site out of mind, the Wagners got mad at the Rhoden around 2014 that was the same time that SW was born, computer hacking was going on, Jake was in my opinion insanely jealous of HR, in COol Cats post he wrote that JW and HR lived part time with each other’s mothers, while he worked,HR went to school, that’s why he was watching her every move he thought she was talking with other boys, Jake and his family are crazy he probably did beat HR, I would say that AW was putting evert bad thought in JW head at the time, JMO SW is Jakes daughter and he wasn’t going to let a strange man raise his child and I’m sure that SW, FW and BW was backing him in the threats in the months prior to the killings, all the rumors of the door kicking down, the fight between CRSR and BW is all true, I still don’t know why GW4 went alone with unless he was under mommy control, also in the OX show GW4 ex-in-laws sided with the Wagners because they depended on FW for income, the sister in-law let her tongue slip on a few things about AW and HR was in some kid of bad disagreement months prior to the murders and she made it a point to call BW (Bad Billy) and said he was a hard worker but no one messed with BW, so if CRSR wiped BadBilly than that started a chain reaction for revenge.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I can only think from that, his name couldn't have been on SW's birth certificate? Wouldn't showing that have proven legally with one document what all the other things were meant to show in accumulation?

I'm speculating. I apologize. But it seems that, whether or not it was meant to be, Jake viewed this as a custody hearing and home study all rolled up into one proceeding. Often, merely proving a biological relationship isn't enough to satisfy CPS when it comes to a small child and a major change in custody. This case also included trauma and grief with the loss of her Mom. He needed to prove a prior relationship with the child and prove the home a suitable living environment. This was his chance to do that all at once in court. I'm going off of comments from other posters concerning the pictures. I have no knowledge of them, but I believe the posters on here who have referenced them.

By being awarded full custody on the spot at the hearing he was able to:

-keep CPS out of their home and their lives (can you imagine what they might have found going through the home early on in this case? What extensive interviews with the children might have revealed?)

-have the legal right to take the child anywhere he chose

-could leave for parts unknown at any time, without having to get prior authorization from anyone

-could begin to shape and control public opinion (whose heart wouldn't go out to a grieving, single Dad?)

-and I'm sure I've missed several additional things he "accomplished" in the hearing.

What I do find to be EXTREMELY WEIRD is his wording on the document he submitted to court. Nothing says love like, "cohabitation and exclusive romantic relationship." Sheeesh!! I believe he is the bio-father, but how easily he could have caused suspicion with using that phrase multiple times!

It sounds to me like he was coached (badly). His writing to my ears comes across cold as a well, fill in whatever phrase you prefer. AJM2C

 

[KentuckyMama]

I've asked before but I'm unaware of any answer. Who, besides the Ws, backs up any statement about cohabitation or SW being with the Ws 50% of the time? It might be true and I just haven't found evidence of it yet. Or, it could be another set of self serving statements by the Ws. "The lies, all the lies they told"

 

[GoBuckeyes]

The wording made me think that the judge knew that JW murdered that family but his hands were tied and he couldn't change it. JW was on the birth certificate.

She will read these pages some day. She is in foster care. She lost her murder and family and her dad is in jail. Her entire family is gone. That's enough for anyone to bear. IMO.

I agree that the wording of the judge's decision sounds a little different. But respectfully I disagree on the judge not having options. A biological connection doesn't give automatic and immediate rights to custody of a child.

If for a split second that judge thought at the time of the hearing that Jake murdered the Rs, his hands were not tied. He could have granted custody with any number of conditions attached, delayed the decision altogether, ordered DNA testing, sent the child with CPS while the living conditions were inspected, and whatever additional mandates he wanted to attach.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I've asked before but I'm unaware of any answer. Who, besides the Ws, backs up any statement about cohabitation or SW being with the Ws 50% of the time? It might be true and I just haven't found evidence of it yet. Or, it could be another set of self serving statements by the Ws. "The lies, all the lies they told"

Very good question. I haven't seen anything that verifies that claim. And everyone on her Mom's side, the side that could lend credence to it, unfortunately can't say one way or the other.

 

[Satchie]

See this is what bothers me. Why jump through all those hoops if Jake is the bio? Why not just present a DNA test and be done with it?
BBM

"After presentation of the evidence, the Court finds that there has been a change in the circumstances of the child and/or custodial parent, specifically: the Mother, Hanna May Rhoden is deceased; and that changing the residential parent and legal custodian is in the best interests of the child."

This wording of the Court makes me think the judge knows he is not the bio but has decided that it is in the best interest of the child to award custody to Jake because of the prior father daughter relationship between them. I just find it extremely odd that he had to do all this (statements, baby pics, dragging mama in on it, having granny forge documents) when a simple DNA test would have said it all.

JMO

I think family law and custody decisions have nothing to do with DNA testing. I don't know where this belief comes from, that it's all about who is the male DNA donor. That may be true when social services goes after absent fathers for child support, but it isn't true when you're talking about who will have the actual hands-on, face-to-face interaction with the child.

You are assuming that a judge would just hand over a motherless child to any man who can prove his DNA matches hers. That could easily result in child abuse.

Decisions on custody are based on principles about the care and support of children, that have to do with what is in the best interests of the child. It isn't about who can claim they own the child biologically, it's about who has, in the past, and will, in the future, be a loving and kind and supportive parent.

I think JW had to prove that, although he was never married to HM, they did have a marriage-type relationship, followed by an informal shared custody arrangement, just like a married couple would have had, and that he had always provided a caring home for the child, such as through birthday parties.

 

[Satchie]

Very good question. I haven't seen anything that verifies that claim. And everyone on her Mom's side, the side that could lend credence to it, unfortunately can't say one way or the other.

I expect LM, and varous other relatives, as well as girlfriends of HR, verified those facts to police many times over.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I expect LM, and varous other relatives, as well as girlfriends of HR, verified those facts to police many times over.

True, they may have. But LM didn't seem real complimentary of the Ws in early interviews. Hard to tell what his opinions were on the amount or quality of time that J spent with S.

 

[Satchie]

Your Welcome Raisin! Here's how LE got the information about Jake and Hanna. Yes Jake provided the information himself, but not in an interview, it was in the court custody documents he filed:
_______________________________________________________________

In an affidavit signed by Jake Wagner, he said he and Hanna Rhoden had "approximately equal time with Sophia since her birth."

"Although Hanna and I were never married, one child was born during our co-habitation and exclusive romantic relationship, namely: Sophia May Wagner, born 11/18/2013 in Portsmouth, Scioto County, Ohio," the affidavit states.

Jake Wagner wrote, "During our 2013 to 2015 co-habitation and exclusive romantic relationship, Hanna and I lived in either the home of my Mother or her Mother. At that time, Hanna continued to attend school and did not work and I worked on my family's farm as well as drove an eighteen-wheeler, which I share with my Brother. In late March 2015, Hanna decided that I worked too much and that I did not have enough time for her. Therefore, Hanna ended our co-habitation and exclusive romantic relationship. Hanna and I continued a non-exclusive romantic relationship while we shared the parenting of Sophia."

Jake Wagner said that Hanna told him in August, 2015 that she was pregnant with her second child. "I was happy even though Hanna explained to me that she could not be sure that the baby was mine," Jake Wagner said.

According to the affidavit, "In late September 2015, Hanna decided that she and I would not continue any romantic relationship while we continued to share the parenting of Sophia."

Jake Wagner's mother, Angela Wagner, signed a similar affidavit.

Jake Wagner was granted temporary custody of Sophia on May 4, 2016.

On June 16, 2016, a court entry was filed by Pike County Juvenile Court Judge Robert Rosenberger granting that reads, "After presentation of the evidence, the Court finds that there has been a change in the circumstances of the child and/or custodial parent, specifically: the Mother, Hanna May Rhoden is deceased; and that changing the residential parent and legal custodian is in the best interests of the child."
_______________________________________________________________

WLWT has not been able to find any documents related to the custody of Sophia that was dated prior to April 22, 2016.
_______________________________________________________________

A Rhoden family member told WLWT that Jake Wagner tried to get Hanna to sign over her rights to Sophia weeks before the murders. The Rhoden family said she refused to do so.
_______________________________________________________________

“Jake was really good friends with and was really close with the family until the custody battle came up,” said the Rev. Phil Fulton, pastor of Union Hill Church. "_______________________________________________________________

Pike County murders: Court docs reveal custody battle at heart of killings

Why I Care:
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/11/23/4234965F00000578-4683690-image-a-16_1499813441445.jpg

Thanks for this detailed information.

I very much doubt JW personally wrote the capsule summary of his situation: the grammar is perfect, it's concise but complete, and excludes all emotional tone. I'm sure it was written by a lawyer or someone similar, I doubt JW had any experience writing these kinds of documents.

 

[Satchie]

True, they may have. But LM didn't seem real complimentary of the Ws in early interviews. Hard to tell what his opinions were on the amount or quality of time that J spent with S.

I don't think it's about opinions. That's where these feuds about custody come from.

IMO, the principle in family law is that normally mothers are the primary caretakers of children, although children are better off if they have involved fathers as well.

If the mother has a child with her marriage-type partner, has acknowledged him as the father, has lived with him, and when the relationship broke down, allowed him to take the child for extended visits, then he is the father in her eyes, and since she trusted him with the child, the law will not second-guess her choice unless there is evidence of abuse.

I think it's that aspect of the law that the W's couldn't tolerate. They didn't think she was entitled to make these decisions, even tho she was the mother. And even though the W's seem to have some pretty strong matriarchs themselves.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

The wording made me think that the judge knew that JW murdered that family but his hands were tied and he couldn't change it. JW was on the birth certificate.

She will read these pages some day. She is in foster care. She lost her murder and family and her dad is in jail. Her entire family is gone. That's enough for anyone to bear. IMO.

I do not think any one of us can say for certain she will read these pages one day. To do that is to assume a lot.

We can say she might read them. We can say there is a possibility she will read them. But 100% certainty? No, we can not say that.

And if what I think is a viable theory is true it is going to come out in court and be plastered all over media and maybe even on Court TV.

If what I think is a viable theory turns out not to be true, then all the better.

But in the meantime, per TOS and the mods I am allowed to state a theory that I base on facts which I have done.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

His name is on the birth certificate. They viewed SW as a possession that they had to control, they allegedly just murdered her mother and family. The mother had full custody by Ohio law. After killing 8 people, they sure as heck weren't going to risk the judge denying custody. They went overboard and to the extreme to have the court grant custody. No one gives photos etc and I would be shocked if Angela Capeta doesn't present that ridiculous document and photos in court.

These masterminds are not so smart after all. Jmo

BBM
His name is on the birth certificate.

Do you have a link to her birth certificate so we can all see what you so adamantly insist is fact ?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

He didn't have to bring them, but he did, as proof. Page 3 of the papers he filed for temp custody states that he is sure that she is his. He provided photos of him, and S, as toddlers, to show that she resembles him. He also mentions the "hammer toe", next to the big toe as a familial trait (loosely worded).

That is what I don't get. He didn't say "She is my child" he said "I am sure she is my child."

To me that shows doubt. Words matter.

For example if hubby said to me "I am sure he is my son" instead of stating outright "he is my son" I would bop him upside the head to ring his bell and remove all doubt.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

d

 

[OhioBlues]

I agree that the wording of the judge's decision sounds a little different. But respectfully I disagree on the judge not having options. A biological connection doesn't give automatic and immediate rights to custody of a child.

If for a split second that judge thought at the time of the hearing that Jake murdered the Rs, his hands were not tied. He could have granted custody with any number of conditions attached, delayed the decision altogether, ordered DNA testing, sent the child with CPS while the living conditions were inspected, and whatever additional mandates he wanted to attach.

I can see your point and you could very well be correct. I am not a lawyer.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I can see your point and you could very well be correct. I am not a lawyer.

I'm not one either. I do have some second hand experience with several different CPS cases/situations. All I know for sure after hearing all the threats the Ws made for revenge is that I sure wouldn't want to be a judge, lawyer, or in any way at all involved in this case.