OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#47

[Cool Cats]

First and foremost, I appreciate your time in compiling this information for me.
It leads me to believe even more so that FW is lead dog of this pack. What she says goes.
I also agree with the "church going" sentiment.
I would like to see them turn on her and give a statement to the real goings on and why this tragedy happened. But, it will never happen.

Edit to note : If you have so much money, why do you need to screw everyone over? 12/132... That means 120 people were screwed in some way. Why? I mean, she's so rich. Right? Has so much money. And, soooooo Godly. Doesn't make sense to keep being so hateful over 220k (at most).
(I am well aware to most of us 220k is A LOT of money, but when you're sooooo rich, it's a drop in the bucket)

I know a lot is said about the custody issue, but then I read info (here) about DNA testing and if the child is his.
What sense would thay make? To kill an entire family over a child that isn't his? And, how deep rooted do the issues have to he in order to commit this specific crime of murdering an entire family?

I am glad to share what info I can find. It really deeply bothers me when people take advantage of others. Plain and simple. If financially secure, not even rich, I would rather help a family own their own home and property then to squeeze and " nickel and dime" them for my own selfish financial gain. Currently, I'm the executor of an estate and instead of making money off the vehicle, I gave it to a family whose car is broken down. I would rather they have it then me having the money, and I am not a wealthy person like Fred. Not at all.
Sorry, not trying to make this about me. It's not about me.

So I totally get how you feel. And I have never heard anything mentioned before about speculation about the paternity of SW, just speculation about KG. ( Hanna's youngest)

I agree with you, the Wagner's would not have killed the Rhodens if SW was not Jake's biological child.

Let's be clear here, this Wagner group is insane when it comes to the control of any of their children and grandchildren. The children are possessions to them, almost like property that belongs exclusively to them. The first thing people like this do is to DNA test any newborn that they think might be theirs.

I am sure both Wagner grandkids were DNA tested and it's that bloodline, that powerful connection that started the whole thing. If Jake thought KG was his then he would have waited longer and DNA tested her himself, not look for a hammer toe. There is no one here who can dispute Jake's claims. Hanna isn't here to say what the truth is --- which I believe is that she made it clear CG was the bio dad and CH would be the one to act as the "adopted" dad.

HR even sent an ultrasound pic to CG that he used in his profile picture. CH went to her Dr. apts. If Jake thought he might be the dad he would have been the one getting ultrasound pictures, going to apts, and then taking time to DNA test KG and waiting to get the results.

Hanna broke up with him, moved on with 2 other boyfriends, and was having another man's baby, making a new family with a new man. Jake was out, period. Now SW would have a new dad in her life and a new sister that wasn't even his. A sister that would actually give Sophia a much stronger family tie to her Rhoden side of the family vs. the Wagners.

.........Just My 2 Cents....agreeing with you.......

 

[Dudly]

I agree with everything you say. IMO it would have been easier if JW could have become a social butterfly upon his breakup with HMR, and found himself another Baby Mama or two, if having children were all that important to him. Seems the W4 wanted complete control of HMR and the rest of her family JMO. The W4 seem like "power hungry" losers to me. Also envy of the cash flow the R family seemed to have, with used car deals, jobs and the small amount from the weed played a part. JMO

Thinking about it, just what kind of combined income did all four Ws have? It couldn't have been much from around 2015 on. I don't know how they afforded the trip to Alaska.

 

[ChickaDee221]

I am glad to share what info I can find. It really deeply bothers me when people take advantage of others. Plain and simple. If financially secure, not even rich, I would rather help a family own their own home and property then to squeeze and " nickel and dime" them for my own selfish financial gain. Currently, I'm the executor of an estate and instead of making money off the vehicle, I gave it to a family whose car is broken down. I would rather they have it then me having the money, and I am not a wealthy person like Fred. Not at all.
Sorry, not trying to make this about me. It's not about me.

So I totally get how you feel. And I have never heard anything mentioned before about speculation about the paternity of SW, just speculation about KG. ( Hanna's youngest)

I agree with you, the Wagner's would not have killed the Rhodens if SW was not Jake's biological child.

Let's be clear here, this Wagner group is insane when it comes to the control of any of their children and grandchildren. The children are possessions to them, almost like property that belongs exclusively to them. The first thing people like this do is to DNA test any newborn that they think might be theirs.

I am sure both Wagner grandkids were DNA tested and it's that bloodline, that powerful connection that started the whole thing. If Jake thought KG was his then he would have waited longer and DNA tested her himself, not look for a hammer toe. There is no one here who can dispute Jake's claims. Hanna isn't here to say what the truth is --- which I believe is that she made it clear CG was the bio dad and CH would be the one to act as the "adopted" dad.

HR even sent an ultrasound pic to CG that he used in his profile picture. CH went to her Dr. apts. If Jake thought he might be the dad he would have been the one getting ultrasound pictures, going to apts, and then taking time to DNA test KG and waiting to get the results.

Hanna broke up with him, moved on with 2 other boyfriends, and was having another man's baby, making a new family with a new man. Jake was out, period. Now SW would have a new dad in her life and a new sister that wasn't even his. A sister that would actually give Sophia a much stronger family tie to her Rhoden side of the family vs. the Wagners.

.........Just My 2 Cents....agreeing with you.......

Sorry about the confusion with the kids. I haven't learned all the initials yet. I just always assumed the baby wasn't his. But, the toddler was his.
I think when Inread DNA, I automatically attributed it to the oldest child because in my mind, the youngest was absolutely not him.

Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate that.

I think maybe FW kept a tight leash on the entire family. And, that she did view the the children and grandchildren as property.
Although I am nearly certain that my own theory of FW being deeply involved with this beyond the docs will never be proven. I will never think that these 4 could have planned this without the help of someone a little smarter than them.

 

[ChickaDee221]

Thinking about it, just what kind of combined income did all four Ws have? It couldn't have been much from around 2015 on. I don't know how they afforded the trip to Alaska.

Honestly, it had to be next to nothing. What was FW income and where was she getting it (except for the poor fools who she kept scamming in the land contracts)? She had to be the one supporting the entire crew.

 

[FrescaandSouthernComfort]

Honestly, it had to be next to nothing. What was FW income and where was she getting it (except for the poor fools who she kept scamming in the land contracts)? She had to be the one supporting the entire crew.

Could this entire mess be over government handouts and benefits? Bob, Sr. was ill with an illness that he
could never be able to work again, FW was in control, Robin could only do so much and Billy was receiving
Workman Comp with limited abilities to learn a legal wage. That left the 2 boys to provide for the 4Ws. All
their toys, trucks and tools were purchased though the corporations and LLCs. But the problem was that
the Wagners needed cash. FW funds were tied up in land and animals. The animals needed care and foods
and both were costly.

Chris and Dana always provided for their kids. Somehow there was always a way to earn the necessary
funds. The Wagners did not know how to earn a living. Stealing was easier. All AW & BW had was Workman
Comp and Food Stamps. With children in the home, the benefits were increased. Suds & B3 provided that
provision. The boys could file as Head of Households and receive Child Credits that resulted in extra cash
and government benefits to each.

All the Wagners were cash poor and something has to be done to find a way to survive. FW assisting was
limited and AW & BW needed help. Once the boys had custody of the children, the handouts were in
sight. But the Rhodens stood in the way...

 

[molly1255]

Do we know if HR was receiving Medicaid for SW? I have heard that stated but I am not certain. If it's true and accurate SW wasn't receiving Medicaid then my theory could be different now. Tia. Jmo.

I've not seen any source provided that states that SW's healthcare was not being covered by Medicaid/CHIP.

IMO, HR was a teenager, in high school and unemployed. JW was self-employed and he could probably have paid premiums for SW for private health insurance, but would he really have done that? I'd be shocked if he did.

My thoughts on this case continue to morph, and for today, I "think" JW may have been SW's biological father. I think it's possible the name of the father on SW's birth certificate may have been left blank by design, so SW could receive benefits through Medicaid/CHIP and other benefits, too. JMO, if this is what happened, JMO, it was JW's scheme. HR was still a child and she was also a victim of JW and he's facing a separate charge for that.

JMO, this may be a reason why JW didn't provide DNA test results to the court to try to get custody when HR and her family were alive, and it doesn't appear he provided DNA results when the R's were dead and he sought custody. A DNA test result showing he's the bio dad might put him in some legal trouble if there was Medicaid fraud, and he might also be required to pay back the money.

Per the indictments, the W's started spying around July 1, 2014, which is about nine months before HR supposedly ended their exclusive romantic relationship, took SW and went to live with DR.

JMO, I think someone in the W brain trust realized HR was getting ready to go, and what that would mean and they started collecting the goods on the R's for a custody battle they thought they could win outside of court by use of threats and intimidation. But HR and her family did not roll over and I believe they had the goods on JW and he knew they did.

All JMO..

 

[Cool Cats]

Sorry about the confusion with the kids. I haven't learned all the initials yet. I just always assumed the baby wasn't his. But, the toddler was his.
I think when I read DNA, I automatically attributed it to the oldest child because in my mind, the youngest was absolutely not him.

Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate that.

I think maybe FW kept a tight leash on the entire family. And, that she did view the the children and grandchildren as property.
Although I am nearly certain that my own theory of FW being deeply involved with this beyond the docs will never be proven. I will never think that these 4 could have planned this without the help of someone a little smarter than them.

And those are the million dollar questions.....
Did Fred know about the murder plans before April 22nd 2016?
Did Fred learn about the murder plans after April 22nd 2016?
Is Fred just an innocent bystander who knows nothing and never lied to The GJ?

The thing that alarmed me and surprised me is the 3rd reason the Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa gave to keep Fred's bond high.

#1.) Fred lied to the GJ, Obstructing Justice.

#2.) Fred had discussed her GJ Testimony with others, and had been instructed by the Judge not to do so.

#3.) Angela, Jake, Billy and George IV were in Fred's house discussing revenge and escape (if arrested) it happened on multiple occasions, and Fred was actually present during these conversations. Canepa did not say that Fred herself threatened anyone, and she told the Judge she didn't think Fred would become a "hitman" but she was concerned about the possibility of Fred helping to facilitate those types of plans.

Three of the targets discussed were Governor DeWine, Sheriff Reader, and a BCI Special Agent who was working full time on the case. Reader even said he had security protecting him. I'm sure the others as well.



Canepa said that this information was obtained through a confidential reliable source but the media keeps reporting it as a confidential informant, but we don't know, it could be from wiretaps only. I also suspect that this confidential reliable "source" picked up the information that Fred was discussing her GJ Testimony.

Fred being privy to these conversations, as well as even allowing them in her own "Christian" home, leads me to suspect that she knew about something evil--- either before or after the fact.

 

[ChickaDee221]

And those are the million dollar questions.....
Did Fred know about the murder plans before April 22nd 2016?
Did Fred learn about the murder plans after April 22nd 2016?
Is Fred just an innocent bystander who knows nothing and never lied to The GJ?

The thing that alarmed me and surprised me is the 3rd reason the Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa gave to keep Fred's bond high.

#1.) Fred lied to the GJ, Obstructing Justice.

#2.) Fred had discussed her GJ Testimony with others, and had been instructed by the Judge not to do so.

#3.) Angela, Jake, Billy and George IV were in Fred's house discussing revenge and escape (if arrested) it happened on multiple occasions, and Fred was actually present during these conversations. Canepa did not say that Fred herself threatened anyone, and she told the Judge she didn't think Fred would become a "hitman" but she was concerned about the possibility of Fred helping to facilitate those types of plans.

Canepa said that this information was obtained through a confidential reliable source but the media keeps reporting it as a confidential informant, but we don't know, it could be from wiretaps only. I also suspect that this confidential reliable "source" picked up the information that Fred was discussing her GJ Testimony.

Fred being privy to these conversations, as well as even allowing them in her own "Christian" home, leads me to suspect that she knew about something evil--- either before or after the fact.

#4. FW thinks she is about the law. Since she is "rich", "Godly" and "built this community over decades" she is above all.

 

[Cool Cats]

#4. FW thinks she is about the law. Since she is "rich", "Godly" and "built this community over decades" she is above all.

Not now. Her reputation is in tatters. Her attempt to rehabilitate herself with her hand on the Bible, next to a picture of Jesus on the wall, giving video interviews with her attorney, is only making her look crazy. She says "no one wants anything to do with me, and the grocery store won't take checks with the name Wagner on them."

Money? Yes. But the Flying W is now the Flying away of 4 decades of building up a strong breeding reputation...... Poof...!

Robin will inherit the money but sadly for her, also a frightful family legacy.
-----Unless they all get acquitted by a Jury of their peers. They still have that left-----

 

[ChickaDee221]

Not now. Her reputation is in tatters. Her attempt to rehabilitate herself with her hand on the Bible, next to a picture of Jesus on the wall, giving video interviews with her attorney, is only making her look crazy. She says "no one wants anything to do with me, and the grocery store won't take checks with the name Wagner on them."

Money? Yes. But the Flying W is now the Flying away of 4 decades of building up a strong breeding reputation...... Poof...!

Robin will inherit the money but sadly for her, also a frightful family legacy.
Unless they all get acquitted by a Jury of their peers. They still have that left.

That's just the frail old lady, everyone hates me, feel bad for me defense. Enough pity puts her in good light with the jury. She will probably head into the trial with a walker and a hearing aid. Just a poor old woman, falling apart.
If I had to guess from the earlier info you provided, it's been a long time since anyone thought the W's were decent folks.

 

[ChickaDee221]

Could this entire mess be over government handouts and benefits? Bob, Sr. was ill with an illness that he
could never be able to work again, FW was in control, Robin could only do so much and Billy was receiving
Workman Comp with limited abilities to learn a legal wage. That left the 2 boys to provide for the 4Ws. All
their toys, trucks and tools were purchased though the corporations and LLCs. But the problem was that
the Wagners needed cash. FW funds were tied up in land and animals. The animals needed care and foods
and both were costly.

Chris and Dana always provided for their kids. Somehow there was always a way to earn the necessary
funds. The Wagners did not know how to earn a living. Stealing was easier. All AW & BW had was Workman
Comp and Food Stamps. With children in the home, the benefits were increased. Suds & B3 provided that
provision. The boys could file as Head of Households and receive Child Credits that resulted in extra cash
and government benefits to each.

All the Wagners were cash poor and something has to be done to find a way to survive. FW assisting was
limited and AW & BW needed help. Once the boys had custody of the children, the handouts were in
sight. But the Rhodens stood in the way...

I mean, realistically, we are talking what, an extra $400-$1000/mo? I don't think its that much money. Not enough to massacre 8 people for. I'm not sure about OH. But, last year NM (one of the poorest states in the Country, almost last for edu, and child welfare) dropped down to $200/mo in food stamps for a lot of families that had working adults living off the system (to try to push them into the workforce and limit the amount of black market fs sales).
It couldn't have been enough money to kill a family over. 12k/year? For some reason, that makes me even more sick if that could be true.

 

[rsd1200]

It sure helped me to understand why in her GJ testimony Fred made the snide comment “well, in my eyes they were married...”(paraphrasing only).

There was a tone about it too, "in MY eyes, he was married to HMR". I kinda took that to mean, that although there wasn't a piece of paper from the state, saying that they were married, she still saw them as married. Which is what had made me wonder if they'd done a sort of faux wedding w/the tatt bands, so they were married in the eyes of JW's family, and God. Just a theory that I have about the bands, and the status update, combined with FW's aforementioned statement.

 

[FrescaandSouthernComfort]

I mean, realistically, we are talking what, an extra $400-$1000/mo? I don't think its that much money. Not enough to massacre 8 people for. I'm not sure about OH. But, last year NM (one of the poorest states in the Country, almost last for edu, and child welfare) dropped down to $200/mo in food stamps for a lot of families that had working adults living off the system (to try to push them into the workforce and limit the amount of black market fs sales).
It couldn't have been enough money to kill a family over. 12k/year? For some reason, that makes me even more sick if that could be true.

You do realize that I am talking about a very different family, not your balanced, hard working individuals.
They were use to B1 receiving government crop subsidies, corporate write-offs, etc. Each son could qualify
for many childcare benefits for the children, including paying AW for childcare. In addition both sons would
qualify for the earn child credit, plus food stamps for 6 people. In reality, if it was worked in a way, that in
my opinion AW is very familiar with the basic, free insurance for all. Much, much more money...

 

[Merrygirl]

Then who would pay for the lawyers? Not only that, but she would have to admit her own guilt therefore admitting the guilt of her family.
If I am understanding you correctly, it would be a "she made me do it" defense?

Sorry, I don’t understand what you are trying to say. In the first place, the State of Ohio is paying for 5 of 6 defendants’ lawyers. Fred is only paying for her own. I believe AW would give up Fred if she thought the other 5 were going down except for Fred. I believe “all is not well in Denmark” between the 2 of them and I think AW would say “Why is she not included, she did this and this and this...”. I think there would be a helluva cat fight, the likes we’ve never see since Krystle and Alexis.

 

[rsd1200]

Something just popped into my head about custody and reasons for the forged documents. We keep saying that he needed them to go to Alaska with her, but they could’ve flown to Alaska with SW and they wouldn’t have needed them.

He may need the documents to prove he has legal custody for medical care, and school.

 

[Merrygirl]

She either had to be receiving Medicaid for SW or signed up on the marketplace (Obamacare) as by law, as a part timer at her job, her workplace did not have to offer her health insurance. Dana was not the legal guardian of SW so she would not have been able to add her to any health insurance policy she had at work. Obamacare can be expensive so I am guessing SW had Medicaid.

JMO

I am only guessing also, but she most likely had Medicaid. Obamacare wouldn’t cost her for premiums BUT the deductible would be $8k-$10k. So basically it only covers catastrophic illness & most young people can’t afford it. By her getting ready for #2 baby Medicaid would pay for hospital and food stamps and WIC would help with groceries.

 

[Merrygirl]

Something just popped into my head about custody and reasons for the forged documents. We keep saying that he needed them to go to Alaska with her, but they could’ve flown to Alaska with SW and they wouldn’t have needed them.

Not now cuz you need to prove ID, etc even on domestic flights now. Human trafficking is so huge in the U.S. now and they are super vigilante on kids traveling with adults who don’t prove parentage. Cost would have been huge and they didn’t have the $. Also, they needed to move all their stuff. If they had the $ to fly just SW and AW then they could have afforded DNA. JMOO

 

[Dudly]

There was a tone about it too, "in MY eyes, he was married to HMR". I kinda took that to mean, that although there wasn't a piece of paper from the state, saying that they were married, she still saw them as married. Which is what had made me wonder if they'd done a sort of faux wedding w/the tatt bands, so they were married in the eyes of JW's family, and God. Just a theory that I have about the bands, and the status update, combined with FW's aforementioned statement.

I got the opposite feel from her comment. Like she was being very sarcastic about her thinking he was married to HR without a marriage license...She even rolled her eyes at the thought...

 

[molly1255]

I am only guessing also, but she most likely had Medicaid. Obamacare wouldn’t cost her for premiums BUT the deductible would be $8k-$10k. So basically it only covers catastrophic illness & most young people can’t afford it. By her getting ready for #2 baby Medicaid would pay for hospital and food stamps and WIC would help with groceries.

If HR was unemployed, she wouldn't have met the income requirement for the Health Ins. Markeplace (Obamacare). In 2013, HR would have needed to make somewhere around $11,000 a year minimum to be eligible. For both her and for SW. They use MAGI to define income. Not JMO, but fact.

If she kept income in that it that range, if there was any premium, it would be very low, and there would be a very handsome subsidy for the deductible and coinsurance. For both HR and SW. It would have been fabulous health insurance.

Anything under that range, she would have received notice she wasn't eligible and advised her information was being sent to Ohio's Medicaid.

I think the only option was Medicaid/CHIP. I don't see JW buying a private health insurance policy for SW and paying for it when the government provides if you play the game right and you don't get caught.

JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Thinking about it, just what kind of combined income did all four Ws have? It couldn't have been much from around 2015 on. I don't know how they afforded the trip to Alaska.

They used food stamps to get to Alaska!