OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#49

[MittenScarpetta]

@Betty P the first thing that ever stood out to me on these discovery documents was the TWO 911 calls made from UHR. The public has only been made aware of one call, from BJM. Multiple media sources stated JM flagged down LE as they were on their way to CRsr’s responding to BJM’s call. Where’s that other 911 call come in at?

Dropbox - Angela Jo Carter Wagner - Simplify your life

Link to the website of the 3D scan BCI used/uses at crime scenes.

FARO | 3D Measurement, Imaging & Realization Technology

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Yes. Oops, I was wrong about possible mislabeling of DS's call. It's listed separately there.
I wonder if the friends who were riding with BJM that morning also made a call?
For now, I'm going with LM or JM calling 911 because they were trying to hurry up LE or because JM found the third crime scene.

Reminder: This discovery doc is from Jan 7, 2019. The news media apparently didn't report on it or otherwise make it available to the public.

WCPO reported on this one actually. It’s just been so long ago, now.
Here's all the evidence (so far) in the Pike Co. massacre

 

[Dudly]

Couple of things it could be:

• They're referring to the 911 call that DS made for KR and just mislabeled it

• Was BJM's first 911 call dropped or did she hang up and call again as she was running around to the mailbox and to Frankies?

• JM made a call after stepping out of DR's house - possible, but I think he had already heard the sirens when he was in the house. It was reported that just as he stepped out, he saw LE approaching and flagged a car down in DR's driveway.
• LM or his wife or someone else made a second 911 call because they thought LE were taking too long. LE did respond quickly, but this is a typical reaction for most people in an emergency situation - minutes seem like hours.

ETA: It will be interesting to hear the full 911 calls without editing. There have been other cases where outside experts listening to 911 audio are able to pick up additional info about what was happening at the crime scene. May or may not be relevant in this particular case. None of the people who made these calls are suspects, but are only victims/surviving family members.

There is mention of two calls from Union Hill and one from Left Fork. So, the call DS made is listed as a third call...

 

[Dudly]

Link to the website of the 3D scan BCI used/uses at crime scenes.

FARO | 3D Measurement, Imaging & Realization Technology

Those scans are extremely accurate. You can move your point of view and pan in any direction. It is like being there...

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Those scans are extremely accurate. You can move your point of view and pan in any direction. It is like being there...

Yes they are. There’s a show on ID, I believe that uses this type of software and IIRC, one of the forensic units using this type of software on the show is in Cleveland. Those scans will show the jury every inch of the crime scenes and property as if they are back in time on 4/22/16. Such a great tool for the forensic side of things.

Crime 360 - Wikipedia

 

[Sillybilly]

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Thread is open again.

 

[Betty P]

Thank you, Sillybilly! We will all be careful to follow TOS and contact you if we have questions.

 

[IType]

There's something I need clarification on about TOS, but I don't know how to private message a moderator. Can anyone please guide me as to how to do that?

 

[Betty P]

There's something I need clarification on about TOS, but I don't know how to private message a moderator. Can anyone please guide me as to how to do that?

Sure! If you're looking at Sillybilly's profile, just click on his name. It should take you to a window where it says "send message" or something to that effect. You can also go to your own message area and create a new message. In the "recipients" block start typing Sillybilly's name and it will fill it in for you.

ETA: Correction: I think the link in the profile says "Start A Conversation".

 

[IType]

Sure! If you're looking at Sillybilly's profile, just click on his name. It should take you to a window where it says "send message" or something to that effect. You can also go to your own message area and create a new message. In the "recipients" block start typing Sillybilly's name and it will fill it in for you.

Thanks, will give it a try.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

There is mention of two calls from Union Hill and one from Left Fork. So, the call DS made is listed as a third call...

The two UHR calls baffle me. This is JMO and ICBW, I believe if JM made a phone call, it would’ve been released with the others. It’s so odd to me that Dana’s house is the one crime scene the public knows practically nothing about. I was watching old videos earlier and this one popped up. From the sounds of LM in this video, there was a dog inside Dana’s.

 

[OhioBlues]

The two UHR calls baffle me. This is JMO and ICBW, I believe if JM made a phone call, it would’ve been released with the others. It’s so odd to me that Dana’s house is the one crime scene the public knows practically nothing about. I was watching old videos earlier and this one popped up. From the sounds of LM in this video, there was a dog inside Dana’s.

Didn't BJM's 911 call go first to the wrong 911 center and they had to transfer her?

It could be the 1st 911 call is the short portion from the wrong portion then the 2nd would be after she was connected to the correct 911 operator. JMO.

 

[Betty P]

The two UHR calls baffle me. This is JMO and ICBW, I believe if JM made a phone call, it would’ve been released with the others. It’s so odd to me that Dana’s house is the one crime scene the public knows practically nothing about. I was watching old videos earlier and this one popped up. From the sounds of LM in this video, there was a dog inside Dana’s.

This still aggravates me to view these old videos where LE is making veiled threats to surviving family members, implying they know more than they're telling. All because the Wagners were probably feeding them false information about the Manleys. What an unconscionable thing to do to a traumatized, grieving family.

In this video, LM is still recovering from the trauma of losing his daughter and 3 grandchildren, in addition to his son-in-law and friends. But here he is, having to talk to a tv reporter for the umpteenth time defending himself and his family from murder accusations.

I wonder about the listing on AW's first discovery, showing two entries for a large number of voicemail messages. Most were probably to her family and involved plotting and covering up the murders. But I wonder how many were voicemail messages left on the SDSO tip line, feeding false information about the murders? If so, that's another criminal charge that can be brought. Add it to child endangerment charges.

LM is a saint for forgiving LE and prosecutors for all that happened in the beginning of the investigation.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

Didn't BJM's 911 call go first to the wrong 911 center and they had to transfer her?

It could be the 1st 911 call is the short portion from the wrong portion then the 2nd would be after she was connected to the correct 911 operator. JMO.

Good catch! I think that's correct. The murder scenes were on the county line between Pike and Scioto.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

This still aggravates me to view these old videos where LE is making veiled threats to surviving family members, implying they know more than they're telling. All because the Wagners were probably feeding them false information about the Manleys. What an unconscionable thing to do to a traumatized, grieving family.

In this video, LM is still recovering from the trauma of losing his daughter and 3 grandchildren, in addition to his son-in-law and friends. But here he is, having to talk to a tv reporter for the umpteenth time defending himself and his family from murder accusations.

I wonder about the listing on AW's first discovery, showing two entries for a large number of voicemail messages. Most were probably to her family and involved plotting and covering up the murders. But I wonder how many were voicemail messages left on the SDSO tip line, feeding false information about the murders? If so, that's another criminal charge that can be brought. Add it to child endangerment charges.

LM is a saint for forgiving LE and prosecutors for all that happened in the beginning of the investigation.

JMO

I agree. Looking back at these old videos, I see what LE was doing thought. Note the comment from Reader “family, friends, or neighbors” who’ve lied. It’s long been said the two families were “friends” at one point. The Wags were also neighbor-ish, living not too far from UHR. CC is even closer to LFR. And well, two grandmothers are charged with charges that surround lying, hindering an investigation etc. Knowing all we do now, I personally believe Reader’s statement then was directed towards the Wagners and RN, but Reader couldn’t say that. It’s very sad the victims’ families had to be drug through the mud along the investigation and my heart goes out to them. LM, although I don’t know the man and have never met him, holds a special place in my heart. All JMHO.

 

[rsd1200]

IMO I see this differently I think JW chose HR because she was young and had not grown into her independence yet and was easy to control and manipulate. GW4's wife i think may have also been more submissive at the beginning but become stronger and into her own at the end of the marriage. It appears to me that once both ladies became stronger and developed their own personalities they were punished in the worst ways possible. Of course this all just my opinion.

The first photo I saw of them together on FB, was June of 2011 (They'd started dating Aug. 2010). He was 17, she was 13. If he'd been 25, then I'd be more inclined to think it was nefarious to start out with. I just don't see it at the ages, when they were permitted to start seeing each other. Especially since that age gap is not uncommon, still, for this region.

I think he liked her outgoing personality, mostly because he didn't have one, and he had few friends, too. She had friends. They likely met through their parents, at church maybe, or at BBL. She was fun, they liked each other, and the friendship moved forward.

I believe things changed when she had S, though. Having a child, young, can ostracize a young girl from doing things that young girls normally would be doing, who are not tied down at age 16, raising babies. As FR's first gf said in an interview, she and FR were young parents, (17), and FR still had fun on his mind, and she was at home with a baby. It didn't work out. It's all good for the male to go about his business without his gf/wife,while she's left sitting home with a newborn. Eventually, though, his shine will begin to fade, especially if she is of an independent nature, and she'll move on. I think JW's shine began to fade, he possibly even got caught cheating, his Mommy and Daddy moved in, and HMR said, Sayonara. Losing HMR was hard enough, but then the thought of another man raising S, was the tipping point, in two families who had already fell out with each other.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

The first photo I saw of them together on FB, was June of 2011 (They'd started dating Aug. 2010). He was 17, she was 13. If he'd been 25, then I'd be more inclined to think it was nefarious to start out with. I just don't see it at the ages, when they were permitted to start seeing each other. Especially since that age gap is not uncommon, still, for this region.

I think he liked her outgoing personality, mostly because he didn't have one, and he had few friends, too. She had friends. They likely met through their parents, at church maybe, or at BBL. She was fun, they liked each other, and the friendship moved forward.

I believe things changed when she had S, though. Having a child, young, can ostracize a young girl from doing things that young girls normally would be doing, who are not tied down at age 16, raising babies. As FR's first gf said in an interview, she and FR were young parents, (17), and FR still had fun on his mind, and she was at home with a baby. It didn't work out. It's all good for the male to go about his business without his gf/wife,while she's left sitting home with a newborn. Eventually, though, his shine will begin to fade, especially if she is of an independent nature, and she'll move on. I think JW's shine began to fade, he possibly even got caught cheating, his Mommy and Daddy moved in, and HMR said, Sayonara. Losing HMR was hard enough, but then the thought of another man raising S, was the tipping point, in two families who had already fell out with each other.

I definitely believe JW’s shine began to fade, RSD. It’s JMO, but I see him as controlling and I wouldn’t discount abusive to an extent. That just my personal impression of JW and not fact. I see HMR as being an outgoing, young girl who loved her family and maybe didn’t enjoy being secluded to just the Wagners and isolated from her own family and friends. I’m not so sure about JW having it in him to cheat. I suppose he could’ve. I just see the guy as being so obsessed with HMR that he put all his energy and focus on her, even after she left him. It’s going to be extremely enlightening for all of us to find out the dynamics of this relationship when the trials begin. All JMO.

 

[rsd1200]

I definitely believe JW’s shine began to fade, RSD. It’s JMO, but I see him as controlling and I wouldn’t discount abusive to an extent. That just my personal impression of JW and not fact. I see HMR as being an outgoing, young girl who loved her family and maybe didn’t enjoy being secluded to just the Wagners and isolated from her own family and friends. I’m not so sure about JW having it in him to cheat. I suppose he could’ve. I just see the guy as being so obsessed with HMR that he put all his energy and focus on her, even after she left him. It’s going to be extremely enlightening for all of us to find out the dynamics of this relationship when the trials begin. All JMO.

It's very possible, but, from women I've known w/very controlling and/or physically abuse males in their lives, she'd not have had that car of her own, and not still been having overnights with friends, she'd have been right there on Peterson, and if she did get to go to the store, her mileage and time would be checked, and she'd have limited to zero cash on hand, and by the time S came along, communications with friends and family would have been cut off.

I don't think she feared violence from him. It's my guess, if he did hit her, she'd have given it right back, or her family would have. Look what happened when that lady slapped CR2. Remember DR getting up in that woman's business prior too. You didn't even call the Rs cheaters at the Derby w/o repercussions. I may be wrong, but I don't see HMR as meek or shrinking. She left, and imo, she left for CG. Abused women typically are not capable of that. Did JW possible lie to her, use, and twist, her emotions to try and keep her, or win her back? Very likely. Emotional abuse is abuse, but I don't think any of the Rs/HHG, saw this coming. If they feared the Ws, I personally feel that they'd have been ready for them.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

New facts show that the homemade gun silencer that prosecutors found was at the bottom of a well on property the Wagner’s used to own, according to court documents.

“They may have had a certain interest in it. But it seemed to have resonated with them in terms of what to do -- how to solve their problem”, said Marc Clauson, Cedarville University Law Professor.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

The film is about two brothers in Boston who take on a deadly form of vigilante justice by murdering mobsters and other criminals. The killers in the movie use silencers on their guns, the same killing style that members of the Wagner family are accused of using to execute the Rhodens.

Investigators combed through 1,100 tips, but the final piece of evidence that led to the indictments of the Wagner family and their arrests on Halloween were due to the finding of the gun silencer, according to then-Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine.