OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#49

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  • #1,221
One I thing don’t understand is Big Chris, fault back and was shot thru a door, so while all that bang and fighting back was going on Big Chris had to be scream at the killers and for someone to come and help him, why didn’t Frankie or Hannah here him, unless someone was in Frankie home ready to shoot him and HG, JMO
 
  • #1,222
Yes, the W's were on a tight timeline to finish their mission. Dana working late and GR not being home when they went to kill CR1 interfered with their plan. If AW texted AM at 1:30 am to see who was still up or if DR was home, I wonder where her text was sent from? If LE could tell where her phone pinged that night?


GR wasn't home? Where was he? TIA.
 
  • #1,223
Back in the spring of 2018 it was apparent that the laser focus on the W4 was within reach of indictments.


"There are some things that could clear this up for you in about two seconds but I really can't say anything because the investigation is still going on," Junk said.

Two Years After Piketon Slayings, Still No Arrests
 
  • #1,224
GR wasn't home? Where was he? TIA.

That's speculation on my part. The fact that the preliminary AR stated that CR1 was in a more advanced state of decomp indicates some period of time elapsed between CR1's murder and GR's. The speculation is that GR wasn't there when CR1 was killed and that the W's waited until he returned before attacking him. We'll find out at the trial.

Rhodens shot in head at point-blank range
 
  • #1,225
Yes, there was something LE picked up on in early May 2017 that finally changed the course of the investigation. Could they have somehow discovered that JW was intercepting someone's Facebook Messaging feature? I know some people use that app to send messages instead of using the usual texting apps. I understand it's favored by many because it doesn't count against your cell plan's data usage, so you don't have to pay extra for a big data plan on your cell phone account. Whose messages was he intercepting and why? Was he hacking one of the Manley's FB messaging apps, maybe sending incriminating messages under JM's FB profile? Is that how he was trying to frame JM for the murders?
Opinion and theory......
I've been using that app because the people I message use it. It's easy to use.

Jake was intercepting both the Rhodens and the Manleys is my opinion. And yes LE found out about it ( through the app as one possibility) because the intercepting by the Wagner's stopped in early May. They stopped for a reason, LE was onto them.

And yes, I do believe Jake (Wagners) tried to focus suspicion towards the Manleys and it's possible incriminating messages were sent---that is if
James actually had a Facebook account?

They told their lawyer that they gave LE information on Chris Sr's business associates. You can imagine how they spun that to make it look like the murders were from the grow ops---thus pushing LE towards it being Cartel related. What they did to Kenny tells that story.

The main way they tried to frame the Manleys is through all the lies they told. Those lies unravelled in May 2017.

After the laser focus in June 2017 and the searches that August, the Wagner's bided their time in Alaska. After 11 months they deemed it "safe" to return to Ohio where they could continue working for Fred.
They all worked for Fred. At least Angie, Billy and Jake did at one time or another. And I believe GW4 did as well even though I haven't seen it stated anywhere.

It was in this time frame that Billy felt they had ridden out the accusations and felt if they were going to be arrested they would have been arrested already. He then "celebrated" by getting the trophy scorpion tatoo. Again, only opinions. :cool:
That's speculation on my part. The fact that the preliminary AR stated that CR1 was in a more advanced state of decomp indicates some period of time elapsed between CR1's murder and GR's. The speculation is that GR wasn't there when CR1 was killed and that the W's waited until he returned before attacking him. We'll find out at the trial.

Rhodens shot in head at point-blank range

Then that explains why Chris was moved to the back, unless he was shot through the bedroom door and they cornered him in the bedroom. But Gary was over Chris's legs and that shows
Chris was killed first, it fits what the AR said. (2 Cents)
 
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  • #1,226
I like what you are saying CC, I believe that Dana was killed as soon as she got home, and JMO the text that was sent to AM at 1:30 came from AW no Dana,

Text sent to AM at 1:30? I don't remember that but yes I believe the Wagner's were the ones doing those texts (2:00am text to JM) and your likely right, the 1:30am text as well.
 
  • #1,227
So I was looking at Count 20 and it says that the interception of the Rhoden's wire, oral and electronic communications happened between these dates:

July 1st 2014 through May 9th 2017.

So then it occurred to me that this is a "smoking gun." One reason why the investigation took a turn to the Wagners. "Sheet" hit the fan in May and June 2017. There were many LE interviews in May, searches in May, and then the laser focus in June.

I've always wondered what changed to make LE go from accusing BJM and arresting James Manley to then focusing on the Wagners?

It's my opinion that one reason for this is the forensic search of the digital communications. It clearly showed what the Wagners were doing in regards to stalking the Rhodens in the cyber world. Stalking their electronic communications, and as the indictment shows, their Facebook accounts.

It helped create at least a partial picture in the 1000 piece puzzle. :eek: o_O
27-fece5361ef.jpg
IMO JM wasn’t arrested until around 1 year after the tragedy and it’s my opinion that LE already knew and suspected the Wags at that point. JM wasn’t probably arrested to get the W’s talking as I believe they were being bugged and followed at that’s point
 
  • #1,228
  • #1,229
I like what you are saying CC, I believe that Dana was killed as soon as she got home, and JMO the text that was sent to AM at 1:30 came from AW no Dana,
Didn’t she get home around 11ish? I disagree with you because there are relatives who say they were texting Dana that night. Also the killers aren’t going to sit around waiting in the house after already killing HMR and CRJR. They were in and out quickly. MOO
 
  • #1,230
IMO JM wasn’t arrested until around 1 year after the tragedy and it’s my opinion that LE already knew and suspected the Wags at that point. JM wasn’t probably arrested to get the W’s talking as I believe they were being bugged and followed at that’s point

My 3 Cents Only.....

Reader said it was done by locals, this was in October 2016. So yes I am sure LE suspected them back then, but by May 2017 they had acquired more evidence and they stopped suspecting them, instead they became the only suspects and LE needed to prove it.

JM's lawyer thought they arrested James to put pressure on him to talk. He didn't talk (because he's not part of the conspiracy) and charges were dropped.

"..Manley’s attorney, James Boulger, told the Dayton Daily News that the charges were simply a tactical move from the start.

“I think they want to put some pressure on him,” Boulger told the newspaper. “Try to induce him to give them information that they think that he has. That’s what I think that they’re up to.”
:eek: Charges in Rhoden case dropped, pending grand jury

The laser focus got the Wagner's talking amongst themselves in Alaska and in their vehicles. They were likely bugged in Alaska because I think they were bugged before Alaska so there would already be Probable Cause Warrants filed, although they have to be updated due to expiration and address changes.
 
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  • #1,231
Didn’t she get home around 11ish? I disagree with you because there are relatives who say they were texting Dana that night. Also the killers aren’t going to sit around waiting in the house after already killing HMR and CRJR. They were in and out quickly. MOO

How would they even know it was Dana they were texting? The Wagner's stole her phone some time that night. It wouldn't surprise me if hackers like them were the ones who posted on her Facebook account at 1:00am.

She got off work at 11:00pm after her double shift filling in for a co-worker.
.....2 Cents......
 
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  • #1,232
Didn’t she get home around 11ish? I disagree with you because there are relatives who say they were texting Dana that night. Also the killers aren’t going to sit around waiting in the house after already killing HMR and CRJR. They were in and out quickly. MOO
The killers didn’t have to set around the murder scene, they where hacking from home, jmo
 
  • #1,233
One I thing don’t understand is Big Chris, fault back and was shot thru a door, so while all that bang and fighting back was going on Big Chris had to be scream at the killers and for someone to come and help him, why didn’t Frankie or Hannah here him, unless someone was in Frankie home ready to shoot him and HG, JMO
They may not have heard him. The trailers were a ways apart, not right next to each other, and they could have had the heat on or a fan if it was warmer, and the dogs may have been barking.

JMO
 
  • #1,234
Text sent to AM at 1:30? I don't remember that but yes I believe the Wagner's were the ones doing those texts (2:00am text to JM) and your likely right, the 1:30am text as well.
I don't think it was a text. They were talking via FB IIRC.

JMO
 
  • #1,235
IMO JM wasn’t arrested until around 1 year after the tragedy and it’s my opinion that LE already knew and suspected the Wags at that point. JM wasn’t probably arrested to get the W’s talking as I believe they were being bugged and followed at that’s point
At that point Reader was putting out statements like (and I am paraphrasing here as I don't have the link to the article where it was said) "family, friends, ect are lying and we want you to tell us what you know regardless of any criminal activity of your own involved. We are investigating a murder not other criminal activity." I think because of that text sent to James by Jake at 2:00AM Reader believed James knew more than he did or was involved with Jake and crew in the murders. So they put a GPS on his truck to see how many times he met with Jake and crew. They arrested him to force him under threat of charges to tell all he knew. Lenny said he was arrested because of that "text".

JMO
 
  • #1,236
Didn’t she get home around 11ish? I disagree with you because there are relatives who say they were texting Dana that night. Also the killers aren’t going to sit around waiting in the house after already killing HMR and CRJR. They were in and out quickly. MOO
They were texting with someone on Hanna and Dana's phones. No way to know if it was in fact Hanna and Dana since when you send a text you have no way of knowing who has that phone in their hand. Example in point: son sent hubby a text "Is mom home I want to show her something". Hubby's phone was beside me when it buzzed so I texted back "Yes mom is home, bring it over". You get the picture.

Same way with FB. No way to know who is sitting behind that computer typing in messages in reply to yours. Case in point: me typing this to you.

Plus LE stated they took some of the victims cell phones.

JMO
 
  • #1,237
They may not have heard him. The trailers were a ways apart, not right next to each other, and they could have had the heat on or a fan if it was warmer, and the dogs may have been barking.

JMO
From the photos the mobile homes look around 200/300 feet apart JMO
 
  • #1,238
One I thing don’t understand is Big Chris, fault back and was shot thru a door, so while all that bang and fighting back was going on Big Chris had to be scream at the killers and for someone to come and help him, why didn’t Frankie or Hannah here him, unless someone was in Frankie home ready to shoot him and HG, JMO

JBB, I agree with you 100%. IMO, HG, FR & CRs, GR murders started at the same time. I think GW3 was infuriated with CRs because these once good friends, now hated each other. He wanted CRs but had to do it by ambush. I also believe that GW3 was whooped by CRs previously so thus the ambush plus, he had GW4 as extra muscle. JW was livid with HG for introducing CG to HR so JW wanted that evil deed for himself. Could JW do it alone? I think he lacks the intestinal fortitude so he had Momma help. JMO
 
  • #1,239
They were texting with someone on Hanna and Dana's phones. No way to know if it was in fact Hanna and Dana since when you send a text you have no way of knowing who has that phone in their hand. Example in point: son sent hubby a text "Is mom home I want to show her something". Hubby's phone was beside me when it buzzed so I texted back "Yes mom is home, bring it over". You get the picture.

Same way with FB. No way to know who is sitting behind that computer typing in messages in reply to yours. Case in point: me typing this to you.

Plus LE stated they took some of the victims cell phones.

JMO
According to the discovery Dana and Hanna where the only two phones missing, am I right or wrong?
 
  • #1,240
IMO JM wasn’t arrested until around 1 year after the tragedy and it’s my opinion that LE already knew and suspected the Wags at that point. JM wasn’t probably arrested to get the W’s talking as I believe they were being bugged and followed at that’s point

BCI planted the GPS device on JM's truck on the one year anniversary, while the Manleys were attending the balloon release organized to remember the 8 murder victims. That's why they refused to attend the 2nd anniversary service. LM alluded to the reason in an interview.

On the second anniversary of the Rhoden family massacre: 'I still got a lot of hate'

Leonard Manley didn't attend the balloon release. Instead, he sat at his home on Union Hill Road with the intent of confronting any BCI agents that came to his property.

A year ago, Manley was already skeptical of law enforcement's progress in investigating the death of his family members, but that skepticism turned to anger when police obtained a warrant and then placed a GPS tracking device on his son's truck the day of the first anniversary.

"Fool me once," Manley said.

James Manley removed the tracker from his truck when he found it on April 28. He was arrested and jailed for a day on evidence tampering and vandalism. Authorities dropped the charges.

JMO, that was a really bad move on the part of BCI. They could have chosen any number of occasions to plant a device on JM's truck, but for some appalling reason, they chose the first anniversary of the murders.

JMO, this means BCI was still believing the BS that the Wagners were feeding them about JM and BJM being the killers. Once they brought JM in and did more investigating (possibly getting a SW and checking computer/social media and cell phones for those alleged texts) they realized JW had been hacking accounts and sending fake messages.

Just a theory.
 
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