OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#49

[RAISINISBACK]

You see what he’s charged with in the indictments don’t you? Theft, stealing money etc.. Why would Reader do any of those??!!

So what money did he get from framing the son of a wealthy land owner? Or do you think Fred paid him to frame her son and his family? Maybe Robin did?

JMO

 

[Merrygirl]

That's an interesting and plausible theory. I've had the impression all along that the prosecution has some significant evidence that they didn't want to reveal in these pre-trial hearings for FW and RN. Recordings of conversations? Something that bolsters the cases re collusion and pattern of corrupt activity?

That said, its still possible there was something in the discovery the state received from FW's defense that helped bolster their case. I don't see AC making up a story like that when she could be called on it later. Would she?

ETA: I do think RN will go to trial and probably be convicted on her forgery charges. State needs solid evidence for that and assume they have it.

JMO

Betty, I too think RN will go to trial and I don’t see anything looking good for her. If she notarized HMR’s record without her knowledge (note handwriting expert report in discovery) then she’s screwed for falsification of records OR if she witnessed for HMR’s signature in the absence of HMR (example: AW perhaps stating HMR signed but didn’t have time to stay...”). If she notarized her family’s signatures (note OAC rule regarding public notary in discovery) then she’s screwed as NPs can not witness documents for their own family. If Angela used the notary stamp with or without RN’s knowledge then RN is screwed cuz then she has to rat out her own daughter to save her own neck. I’m not sure she wants to be the one to seal the fate of her family. I have a feeling the only way out for her is to plead down for lesser sentence and agree to testify for prosecution. Then again, if things back home don’t turn out well they may need to see if they can get an entire family discount at the Iron Bar Motel if ya know what I mean (wink). JMOO

 

[Cool Cats]

THE CHARGES OF SHERIFF CHARLES READER WILL NOT AUTOMATICALLY EFFECT THE WAGNER MURDER CASES:

A Pike County grand jury accused Reader, 45, of 16 charges that included theft in office, theft, tampering with evidence and conflict of interest allegations.

A special prosecutor from Ohio Auditor Keith Faber’s office is handling the case.

The allegations are unrelated to the murders of eight members of the Rhoden family in April 2016, which Reader’s office handled with state agents.

Ohio Attorney General David Yost said the indictment against the sheriff will not affect the slaying case, as Reader “was not the primary witness for any issue of fact or law.’’

Some lawyers aren’t sure. They said that while the murder cases will continue on, the charges against the sheriff could impact the credibility of the investigation.

“Of course [Reader’s indictment] is going to affect the case,’’ said Michael Benza, who lectures on criminal law at Case Western Reserve University.

“The prosecution will say that it won’t, but [Reader and his department] were involved in the opening stages of the investigation, and that’s one of the most important parts of a criminal case, when you are gathering evidence and interviewing witnesses, when everything is fresh.’’

Timothy McGinty, the retired longtime Cuyahoga County prosecutor and judge, agreed: “It’s a problem that goes to the credibility of the case. In small counties, sheriffs are the key law enforcement officers. They’re a big deal.

“But this will depend on how much his office did in the investigation and what the attorney general’s office did.’’...

 

[Merrygirl]

FWs attorney moved for dismissal earlier, AC argued the issue wasn’t ripe. She must have still thought she could save the case then. Dismissing the charges now seems to me that they knew they had a weak case. If it is true the date the vests were bought they wouldn’t have been material to the case and making the hindering and perjury moot. I believe this was a pressure tactic period by the state. Or very clumsy detective work in that they didn’t even know when the vests were bought. My opinion only and from an out of state detachment perspective

I believe the dates of purchase are irrelevant. I think there is a lot more to this. I believe she let BW (or family) make MANY purchases using her card like maybe a Maglite or 2, hunting boots in multiple sizes, silencer stuffing, ammo, etc. If she testifies she willingly allowed him to use her card and he used it in the act of a felony then she too is guilty. JMOO.

 

[Cool Cats]

I believe the dates of purchase are irrelevant. I think there is a lot more to this. I believe she let BW (or family) make MANY purchases using her card like maybe a Maglite or 2, hunting boots in multiple sizes, silencer stuffing, ammo, etc. If she testifies she willingly allowed him to use her card and he used it in the act of a felony then she too is guilty. JMOO.

Not if she didn't know...2 Cents....

 

[Betty P]

Reader is also the one patrolling the area the entire time this case went unsolved. Plenty of time to plant evidence and think of ways to set up someone. Quit asking me why people I don’t know. Because he’s unstable maybe?

Planting DNA the morning of the murders, before LE arrived? Burying parts for silencers for the W's guns in their well? Sure. BCI took over the investigation within about half an hour of the first 911 call. They made it to the crime scenes just behind local police. Are you accusing them of planting evidence, too?

JMO, Reader gave the W's the benefit of the doubt too long. He followed up on their bogus tips and finally realized he was being fed a lot of bad information.

Evidence doesn't lie. Wagners better come up with a better excuse than "Reader did it".

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

Planting DNA the morning of the murders, before LE arrived? Burying parts for silencers for the W's guns in their well? Sure. BCI took over the investigation within about half an hour of the first 911 call. They made it to the crime scenes just behind local police. Are you accusing them of planting evidence, too?

JMO, Reader gave the W's the benefit of the doubt too long. He followed up on their bogus tips and finally realized he was being fed a lot of bad information.

Evidence doesn't lie. Wagners better come up with a better excuse than "Reader did it".

I agree. I would love to see AW’s reaction when she was questioned as to what she was doing at all those Walmart’s

 

[Betty P]

I believe the dates of purchase are irrelevant. I think there is a lot more to this. I believe she let BW (or family) make MANY purchases using her card like maybe a Maglite or 2, hunting boots in multiple sizes, silencer stuffing, ammo, etc. If she testifies she willingly allowed him to use her card and he used it in the act of a felony then she too is guilty. JMOO.

Even if she wasn't aware GW3 used her credit card/account to purchase supplies and equipment for the surveillance and massacre, she can still be in trouble, JMO. She would have noticed these purchases when she paid the bills. She would have been asked about them in the GJ.

 

[OhioBlues]

I agree. I would love to see AW’s reaction when she was questioned as to what she was doing at all those Walmart’s

Did the Discovery say that it was just AW at all of the Walmart's?

 

[Merrygirl]

A couple of things are bothering me. One, what was in that search warrant? Two how did Owen know to go straight after it?

Was it an illegal search and seizure for some reason? Was something found during the search that AC doesn't want out? Did another agency have FW under surveillance and have a listening device planted in her home that the LE conducting the search found?

Is there a mole in Rob Junks office or worse yet in AC's office that tipped Owen off to the contents of that search warrant?

Is this going to bolster the hopes of the W4 that they can walk on this and strengthen their resolve not to take a plea deal?

Does AC admitting in court that she was dismissing the charges against FW because she didn't want to reveal the contents to Owen going to cause the other defense teams to go after it also?

Just a few question up for debate.

JMO

IMO, requesting the warrants and documentation is standard practice for several reasons. #1) try to discern what evidence the prosecution has and how they might plan to use it, #2) try to find a reason to find the process of obtaining warrants was not properly followed. Therefore, get the warrants tossed so evidence found cannot be used in court, and #3) find out who supplied the information that led to obtaining warrants. Again, discredit the informants that were used to get the warrants then get warrants tossed=evidence tossed.

 

[iridized]

snip
BCI took over the investigation within about half an hour of the first 911 call. They made it to the crime scenes just behind local police. snip

INCORRECT "The AG's Office says they received a call from the Pike County Sheriff's Office asking for assistance around 8:20 a.m. Friday." They weren't even called until about 1/2 hour later. They did not take over the investigation until arrival. They did not helicopter into Pike County, they drove.

eta - UPDATE: More than two dozen investigators focused on Pike County slayings

 

[Myland]

Did the Discovery say that it was just AW at all of the Walmart's?

Jmo I don’t know if they have said who was at those Walmart’s, were Jake and George truck driving then? I wouldn’t think all four of them went to all the Walmart’s together jmo

 

[OhioBlues]

Jmo I don’t know if they have said who was at those Walmart’s, were Jake and George truck driving then? I wouldn’t think all four of them went to all the Walmart’s together jmo

I asked because it amazes me how people think only the woman in the house goes to the store. I was wondering if it was really AW only or if someone just presumed that.

I do remember reading old court records where AW and BW went shopping together but they stole the items from a large number of stores instead of paying for them.

 

[Betty P]

Yes, Merrygirl, it's hard to see how RN will avoid going to trial, possibly even conviction. If she forged HMR's signature on the custody docs, it will be easy for the prosecution to prove it. Presumably, RN's signature and seal are also on the documents, so it doesn't look good for her. JMO

 

[Merrygirl]

Not if she didn't know...2 Cents....

That’s true but she’s already claimed she made the purchases that are on the receipts AND if she claims she didn’t know he used her card that digs the hole deeper for her precious son. I find red flags when I look at those receipts. I find it extremely hard to believe a 77 yr old knows what particular pocket shot stealth slingshot to buy or would buy a 4x jacket for BW when everything else he wears is a 2x. I don’t believe she would order without him either standing over her while she orders or he has pre-printed the exact things he wants. If AC gets her on the stand and asks her, “Do you allow BW to use your cc?” If she says yes then she is also responsible. But if she says “not all the time” then Ac would ask how often, did she authorize for BW for___ on ___ day? If FW says no then “How do you remember you did/didn’t on this day or this day or this day?” Again, if she says she doesn’t allow him then she’s admitting guilt by her use of her own card or he did it against her knowledge which adds theft to his charges.

 

[Betty P]

INCORRECT "The AG's Office says they received a call from the Pike County Sheriff's Office asking for assistance around 8:20 a.m. Friday." They weren't even called until about 1/2 hour later. They did not take over the investigation until arrival. They did not helicopter into Pike County, they drove.

eta - UPDATE: More than two dozen investigators focused on Pike County slayings

Adding a half hour to that timeline makes no difference.

Can you explain how Sheriff Reader,who responds after the murders were called in to 911, (he wasn't a first responder at the scenes) would be able to plant DNA at the crime scenes? Are you assuming he carried around some samples of Wagner family members DNA to plant there? Alternatively, he would have to observe the crime scenes, decide to frame the Wagners (why?) and would have to leave the crime scenes, with hundreds of first responders around, multiple helicopters overhead and dozens of news cameras at every intersection nearby, and drive over to the Wagners farm on Peterson Rd. to somehow get into their home, while they were there and take some DNA samples.

Keep in mind, all the evidence at the crime scenes was retrieved by BCI and their crime scene experts who then took it to the BCI labs for examination.

If your theory is that Sheriff Reader somehow planted evidence at the crime scene while BCI was processing it, why would he wait for over a year after the murders before pursuing them?

JMO

ETA: See timeline on p 1 of this thread for the names of the first responders to the crime scene.

Inside the Rhoden investigation: Scientists work with cops

 

[Dontknow?]

I knew they were looking at Reader but dang, I'm having a hard time picturing him as some wild playboy breaking law after law. Taking drug money, having an affair, a gambling addiction, giving his daughter impounded cars? This is smelling a bit like the Moorer's in Heather Elvis' case. Point at the LE, politicians & whoever else you can. I'm fearing a lot of corruption there possibly.

I'll wait to see the evidence.

 

[TrueTracer]

Adding a half hour to that timeline makes no difference.

Can you explain how Sheriff Reader,who responds after the murders were called in to 911, (he wasn't a first responder at the scenes) would be able to plant DNA at the crime scenes? Are you assuming he carried around some samples of Wagner family members DNA to plant there? Alternatively, he would have to observe the crime scenes, decide to frame the Wagners (why?) and would have to leave the crime scenes, with hundreds of first responders around, multiple helicopters overhead and dozens of news cameras at every intersection nearby, and drive over to the Wagners farm on Peterson Rd. to somehow get into their home, while they were there and take some DNA samples.

Keep in mind, all the evidence at the crime scenes was retrieved by BCI and their crime scene experts who then took it to the BCI labs for examination.

If your theory is that Sheriff Reader somehow planted evidence at the crime scene while BCI was processing it, why would he wait for over a year after the murders before pursuing them?

JMO

ETA: See timeline on p 1 of this thread for the names of the first responders to the crime scene.

Inside the Rhoden investigation: Scientists work with cops

Yes, and also somehow tamper with victims phones, social media accounts, send messages directly related to custody, and on and on all the while doing it from the Wagner's home. And Wagner's devices and computers. Pretty elaborate set up imo that never happened and I truly don't understand why anyone would think this is even possible...my opinion only

 

[Caylee Advocate]

This article tells so much more, including the mention of the Chevy Silverado.


Pike County grand jury indicts Sheriff Charles Reader




#I stand 4 Charlie

 

[OhioBlues]

Yes, and also somehow tamper with victims phones, social media accounts, send messages directly related to custody, and on and on all the while doing it from the Wagner's home. And Wagner's devices and computers. Pretty elaborate set up imo that never happened and I truly don't understand why anyone would think this is even possible...my opinion only

I agree. Reader wasn't even the Sheriff in 2014 when the W's started the tampering and eavesdropping on the victims.