OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#49

[Betty P]

The notion of there being ‘sensitive information’ that could be used by the W defense, and the fear FW might share is mistaken. Any information or evidence held by the prosecutor has to be turned over to the defendant.

Also it is stated that the defense turned over ‘favorable’ information. This means favorable to the defense. No defense attorney is going to turn over information favorable to the prosecution. Case dismissed due to lack of evidence to convict IMO

Like the prosecution, the defense also has to turn over information that may be favorable to the other side. How would they get around that? If the prosecution thinks its favorable, it will be used when they bring charges again. Right now, they're focusing on RN's trial, with it's evidence of forgery of custody docs. JMO, her trial will go rather quickly as that kind of evidence is difficult to refute or play games with.

JMO, it's a mistake to compare FW's case and the 4 Wags; it's apples and oranges. FW was able to dodge and give "wrong" answers on her charge of lying about receipts. That's very different from the 4 Wags murder case where there are reams of evidence against them, so much that the defense teams are having difficulty finding large enough hard drives to transfer it to. The murder trials are a whole different ballgame, one where a long list of LE agencies have spent 3 years investigating and gathering evidence from multiple crime scenes.

 

[Betty P]

I’m not not saying this IS what business Rs/Ws were in but if this is true it would explain a lot of our missing links in this story. JMOO.

Yeah, we discussed that extensively here. If there were a shatter lab involved, what difference would it make? It's just a sideline for many people who grow and sell MJ, a second product to sell. It seems like a side market in the drug world, more a unique product that most users make on their own, from what I've read.

Felony Possession of THC in Ohio | Attorney Boyd

With all the information LE was sharing publicly about this case in the beginning, it seems unlikely they would have kept this information secret. What would be the point? Just asking.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Agree.


I still find it odd that she made so many excuses about the BPVs, that the one she bought for Billy was too small, even though she claims he didn't wear it. There's something going on WRT the sizes of those vests and who wore them. I'm not sure what, but we'll probably find out.

And where did LE find the BPV's? They were photographed in a badly remodeled bathroom. Why would someone store BPVs in a bathroom? I still think they were in a hidden crawl space area. Whoever put them there didn't expect anyone to find them. JMO, she didn't even know the BPVs were hidden in her house.

For a few days, I have been thinking I read something in the original longer copy of the transcripts released by FW's attorney back in March, but I can't find what I'm looking for now to reference it.
Does anyone have a link to Owens filing that still has the multiple pages of FW's testimony or a screen grab of it? I can only find right now what looks to be summarized pieces of her testimony in the motions to dismiss.
Specifically, I'm trying to recall what few sentences there were about FW moving something inside from outside. It said something along the lines of she wanted to make sure whatever it was didn't end up stolen. I wonder if what she moved was the vests or something else.
If I remember correctly, a blue tote was also in the photo and I wonder if it's possible that the vests were in that tote and residue or something on the tote indicates it had been stored outside or elsewhere for a period of time.
Just an opinion/guess/curiosity

 

[Betty P]

For a few days, I have been thinking I read something in the original longer copy of the transcripts released by FW's attorney back in March, but I can't find what I'm looking for now to reference it.
Does anyone have a link to Owens filing that still has the multiple pages of FW's testimony or a screen grab of it? I can only find right now what looks to be summarized pieces of her testimony in the motions to dismiss.
Specifically, I'm trying to recall what few sentences there were about FW moving something inside from outside. It said something along the lines of she wanted to make sure whatever it was didn't end up stolen. I wonder if what she moved was the vests or something else.
I remember correctly, a blue tote was also in the photo and I wonder if it's possible that the vests were in that tote and residue or something on the tote indicates it had been stored outside or elsewhere for a period of time.
Just an opinion/guess/curiosity

Interesting. I don't think I've seen any of Owens filings yet. Was this a filing from recent weeks? TIA

ETA: Was this from his filings back in March in his motion to dismiss?


ETA: How about the doc linked here

Prosecution 'shocked' by defense attorney in Rhoden murder case
Part of the transcript is included, she mentions storing something outside.

 

[Antimony]

Many "Maglite Silencer" videos are available on You-Tube. You can search for "Maglite Silencer" or got to this page:

No machining needed, Really simple.
You do have to order s few things tho. The cups, as mentioned in the video, are specialty items. I do not know if they are available to local dealers. They are Aluminum and might carry that residue from silencer to wound. Freeze plug might be available at Wal*Mart.
Subsonic ammo might be something traceable.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Interesting. I don't think I've seen any of Owens filings yet. Was this a filing from recent weeks? TIA

I could be mistaken, but I thought this was something filed back in March the morning after FW's interview in her home was released. I was thinking it included the exact redacted testimony in multiple pages received from the state.

I haven't been following as closely so my memory could be getting jumbled. I just feel like I read something about her moving stuff inside. If I get a chance I will look more later.

Adding: I thought the 8 pages were originally attached to this:
Fredericka Wagner Motion to Dismiss Indictment

 

[Antimony]

One other thing:
Most of the homebuilt silencers depend upon the weapon barrel being threaded. Not a big deal but may involve an adaptor to fit the nut. Those adaptors are available on e-bay or Amazon.

 

[Fletcher73]

The notion of there being ‘sensitive information’ that could be used by the W defense, and the fear FW might share is mistaken. Any information or evidence held by the prosecutor has to be turned over to the defendant.
Also it is stated that the defense turned over ‘favorable’ information. This means favorable to the defense. No defense attorney is going to turn over information favorable to the prosecution. Case dismissed due to lack of evidence to convict IMO

With respect, I disagree:
1. the prosecution is not required to turn over information pertaining to the W4 cases to FW's defense; I interpreted the special prosecutor's choice to not turn it over as keeping this information from FW.

2. I also interpreted that documentation provided by FW's defense to the prosecution was favorable to the prosecution, and that was a mistake or lack of foresight on FW and/or Owen's part.

I do see what you think was meant, and want to be clear that my understanding was different; we cannot know, without the actual evidence in front of us, what had occurred.

 

[Betty P]

I could be mistaken, but I thought this was something filed back in March the morning after FW's interview in her home was released. I was thinking it included the exact redacted testimony in multiple pages received from the state.

I haven't been following as closely so my memory could be getting jumbled. I just feel like I read something about her moving stuff inside. If I get a chance I will look more later.

Adding: I thought the 8 pages were originally attached to this:
Fredericka Wagner Motion to Dismiss Indictment

Some of the info you mentioned is in the ScribD doc at this link:

Prosecution 'shocked' by defense attorney in Rhoden murder case

 

[Tiff23fr]

Some of the info you mentioned is in the ScribD doc at this link:

Prosecution 'shocked' by defense attorney in Rhoden murder case

Thanks Betty- it is on page 3 of the transcript. I have just been wondering if that's the blue tub, a vest, or something else.

Exhibit 1 Wagner, Fredericka

 

[Betty P]

Many "Maglite Silencer" videos are available on You-Tube. You can search for "Maglite Silencer" or got to this page:

No machining needed, Really simple.
You do have to order s few things tho. The cups, as mentioned in the video, are specialty items. I do not know if they are available to local dealers. They are Aluminum and might carry that residue from silencer to wound. Freeze plug might be available at Wal*Mart.
Subsonic ammo might be something traceable.

It's possible some of those parts might have been ordered on someone's Amazon or Ebay account. JMO

 

[Tiff23fr]

Thanks Betty- it is on page 3 of the transcript. I have just been wondering if that's the blue tub, a vest, or something else.

Exhibit 1 Wagner, Fredericka

I'm starting to think these BPV's are more about the retaliation on LE mentioned. A few on here have said the same.

In my opinion, the vests and body armor were stored in the blue tub/tote outside somewhere. Maybe the W's recognized things were heating up so the tub was moved indoors for easy access. Somehow, I feel LE knew the blue tub had moved inside. If they were in the tub with a lid on it and she claims to have moved it, a follow up question asking if she had seen the vests makes sense.
If my speculation or opinion is anywhere near close, moving only that specific tote would be questionable.
All just my opinion/a hypothesis

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I agree.
One article was published about Chris Jr. and Frankie getting into a fight. The person they fought with made it sound like they fight all the time but it's just hearsay from that one person. That person classified them as violent and the journalist used the term "Violent Rhoden Brothers" in the headline.

There is no proof in MSM that the Rhodens were violent. In fact, 99% of the articles posted say different, very different:

Slain Pike County teenager remembered by friends as 'amazing, loving'

Rhoden family remembered for their love | AOL.com

'Ain't got no revenge in our hearts,' Ohio family says after killings

NOT BBM it's just the way the links and print came out for some reason

Pike County shooting victims shared social media posts about faith, family, work (slideshow) - cleveland.com

Pike County massacre: Who are the victims?

Ohio Massacre's Youngest Victim Had 'Goofy' Laugh

Friend of Piketon massacre victim: ‘I still don’t want to believe it’

Town of Piketon comes together in tragedy that took eight of its own

"....The violent crimes were particularly shocking for residents of Rural Pike County, where the crime rate is well below that of the state and country.

"The community is heartbroken -- shocked -- wondering 'how could this possibly happen to us?'" Fulton, the pastor, said.

Those who knew the victims had only good things to tell reporters.

"Dana was a very hardworking lady -- loved her kids, loved her family," Fulton said. "Very outgoing -- just happy-go-lucky, it seems like."

Johnny Gamble is married to Dana's cousin. He called the family "just good people."

The night of the murders Dana worked a double shift taking care of patients, at her nursing home job, to help out a co-worker.
Her co-workers remember how much she cared about both the residents and staff.

"She would bring in gifts for those she cared for and food and treats for the staff, even bringing in bags of cheeseburgers......"

Out of all those people who spoke up not one person came forward to say they think Billy and co is innocent other than Fred. Now she isn't even saying it. Yet. She is saying "I am innocent" and heavily stressing that "I".

Only Fred has come forward to say they think Billy and co is innocent. No other family, no friends, no neighbors and no acquaintances. No one but Fred.

I find that really strange. Where are all those shocked people with their "but they were such a nice quiet family" and their "I just can't believe such nice people would do that". You know the ones. They are there in every single crime. "he was such a nice man" But she was such a nice woman" "he was such a quiet boy" "They were such a quiet family" " great neighbors" "never had a seconds trouble with them" ect, ect, ect.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I possibly have a clue as to what the business may have been and I have a link from MSM (WCPO) but it’s on YouTube. Not sure if I should post it. It may imply speaking ill of the dead and I don’t want to be banned from Websleuths. The link specifically gives reference to the R’s murders and shows scenes from what I believe to be CRsr’s and FR’s murder sites.

Ask the mods if you can post it.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

If LE has the silencer they just take it and drop it down the well. As easy as 1 2 3

Did they also sneak in the W's house and take the silencer? There is going to be forensics on that silencer.

JMO

 

[rescuemom]

a thought and question I have always had was that very early on, possibly the day after murders, iirc, Reader said that one detective "knew" which way to go with the investigation or words similar to that. Thoughts on what he/they saw at the scene to make him say that or make the detective go in a certain direction??? TIA

 

[Puzzles8]

I don't think they took the silencer/s up to AK with them. Silencers are illegal in Canada. IIRC, there was a 12 hour search of their vehicles at the Canadian border on the way up.

The W4 would have to have hidden or destroyed the silencer before they left for AK (either May or June 2017). What better place to dump evidence than a property (Peterson) you are intimately familiar with, oh, and a property had already been searched by LE?

Who would think to re-search a property after the W4 had left for AK?

Canada's Silencer Laws

 

[TrueTracer]

AG Yost: Pike Co. Sheriff Charlie Reader should step down

 

[Betty P]

AG Yost: Pike Co. Sheriff Charlie Reader should step down

TrueTracer, I forgot to say "Welcome!" to Websleuths! Hope you enjoy visiting here!

Welcome also to you, rescuemom! Hope we're not missing any other new members here. Let us know if we overlooked welcoming you!

 

[Cool Cats]

Out of all those people who spoke up not one person came forward to say they think Billy and co is innocent other than Fred. Now she isn't even saying it. Yet. She is saying "I am innocent" and heavily stressing that "I".

Only Fred has come forward to say they think Billy and co is innocent. No other family, no friends, no neighbors and no acquaintances. No one but Fred.

I find that really strange. Where are all those shocked people with their "but they were such a nice quiet family" and their "I just can't believe such nice people would do that". You know the ones. They are there in every single crime. "he was such a nice man" But she was such a nice woman" "he was such a quiet boy" "They were such a quiet family" " great neighbors" "never had a seconds trouble with them" ect, ect, ect.

JMO

BBM : "They are there in every single crime"

It's one of the strangest things, yes. No one seems to know them. Not normal. No one says they went to church with them, school with them, hung out hunting and fishing with them, worked with them, were friends with them, used to date them, socialized with them, knew them for years, were neighbors with them, and no relatives, other family members have come forward to say they knew them, etc... Totally almost "creepy."

Dozens of people have talked about the Rhodens----family (aunts-uncles-cousins-grand parents etc...) lots of friends, ex-girlfrieds/boyfriends, neighbors, co-workers, school friends, pastor Phil, etc....

Am I missing something? Just Opinion.