OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#49

[Johnny B Bad]

With all the surveillance the Wagners had going on, they knew every little thing going on at the murder locations that night, so IMO, they planned accordingly.

Loomis24 have you been by the murder scenes?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Even still, the fact that the person is deceased makes him or her unavailable. And why would AW be fighting against this? JMO

And why would AW want the witness juvenile records?

 

[Fletcher73]

They live in a camper is what the podcast said (Rhodens Massacre Podcast) IMO

Do they (or did they) live in the camper on KR's property? There was another trailer or camper there, back further from the driveway, behind the camper KR was killed in.

 

[Fletcher73]

Is it possible we have the wrong person in mind? TY

What if the "unavailable person" was GW2? He was alive in April 2016, as a "bedfast man" at FWF, and may have heard or seen something - and provided testimony or an affidavit - after all, LE did remove something from a bedfast man, according to the LM interview in MSM.

What if the "unavailable person" is the toddler BR - the medical/forensic interview video done at the CAC is listed in AW's Discovery.

What if the "unavailable person" is SW or her cousin BW? Either child may have seen something, then if the children were with AW during the LE interviews, mentioned it. As far as we know, her grandchildren's whereabouts are unknown to AW. The state or their caregivers may not want them to be interviewed by AW's counsel.

Just speculating here, based on the ideas being asked tonight about who it might be - all my speculating above is jmo/moo.

 

[Cool Cats]

And why would AW want the witness juvenile records?

************It's a Standard Motion************

Party Information
WAGNER, ANGELA JO
#3) DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR DISCLOSURE OF THE JUVENILE RECORDS OF PLAINTIFF'S WITNESSES FILED

Defendant moves this Court to order the prosecuting attorney to disclose the juvenile records of the witnesses the State intends to call at trial.

"....Bias is demonstrated by a witness like, dislike, or fear of a party, or by the witness self-interest.
The juvenile records counsel seeks the State to disclose are necessary to show possible biases, prejudices, and ulterior motives on the part of the witnesses for the State.

Exceptions to Confidentiality of Juvenile Criminal Records
Juvenile criminal records are confidential in most circumstances, but the exceptions are significant.

Right to confront
The alleged privacy interest of any adult State witnesses with a juvenile record is vitiated (destroyed impaired) by the defendants confrontation rights if the State elects to call this witness.

Failure to provide this information to Defendant will deprive him of his rights under the State and Federal Constitutions to confrontation, effective assistance of counsel, due process of law, equal protection of law, and freedom from cruel and unusual punishment...."

 

[Dudly]

Special commission to review Pike County sheriff’s suspension from office

 

[rescuemom]

I don’t know but I found it on a pod cast about this person missing and read about what AW said also, this person is in all discovery and could be a witness just listen to Rhoden massacre podcast and you can hear the name, I don’t think the Mods would want it put on Websleuth, JMO

I think I know who the person is you are talking about but I haven't looked yet -- but any particular podcast?? a date??? ~~ thanks

 

[Johnny B Bad]

We won't know that. GJ hearings are secret.

Given the way the Motion is worded, it sounds like the witness is still alive.

Perhaps they're concerned the state won't allow the witness to testify in person or won't be available. All the defense is asking for is to not have the witness testimony admitted if they are unable to more fully cross examine the witness.

That may be a valid point or it may just be posturing in order to impugn the testimony of the witness before the trial, before the jury has a chance to hear what the witness had/has to say.

Do they (or did they) live in the camper on KR's property? There was another trailer or camper there, back further from the driveway, behind the camper KR was killed in.

The podcast said on Big Chris’ Property

 

[Johnny B Bad]

T

I think I know who the person is you are talking about but I haven't looked yet -- but any particular podcast?? a date??? Deleted

 

[Nanasteele]

That person was a good friend to Big Chris and rented of of Big Chris, and there is a chance they saw someone, JMO

Exactly, may have saw one of the W's poking around the property one night and the W's didn't see the person that rented from CSR or know they were around. JMO

 

[Berrybell]

JMO, but there are several pages of names in that document, and I am beginning to wonder if the one we are assuming is the witness is indeed "the real witness." Local folks might know, but I don't. I do know he was discussed and accused early on by PP on the site that sailed off into the sunset. Long before arrests were made, I had decided to myself that we had really been taken by PP. I suspect now that poster was AW. She outright accused him of the murders after the Cartel theory passed on. I believe the evidence will prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Wagners committed these murders and they will be found guilty. All my opinion only.

Could it be Jake's wife? She claimed on SM that she was in hiding and left Ohio after her life being threatened last July.

 

[Cool Cats]

Could it be Jake's wife? She claimed on SM that she was in hiding and left Ohio after her life being threatened last July.

Perhaps the witness is in jail? I know one of them was, I saw the mug shot, but not sure of current status.

When is a Witness Unavailable?
State and federal laws guide judges as they decide whether a witness is likely to be unavailable to testify at trial. The issues that judges consider include:

• the witness’s health (is the witness sick or infirm?)
• the witness’s age (is the witness 65 years of age or older?)
• the witness’s residency (is the witness about to leave the state or country?)
• the witness’s safety (has the witness’s life or well-being been threatened?), and
• the witness’s custody status (is the witness about to be imprisoned, released from custody or deported?)

What Are Criminal Depositions? When Are Depositions Allowed? - Lawyers.com
In criminal cases, depositions are normally taken to preserve testimony from a witness.
A deposition isn't meant as a discovery device in a criminal case.

 

[Berrybell]

Perhaps the witness is in jail? I know one of them was, I saw the mug shot, but not sure of current status.

When is a Witness Unavailable?
State and federal laws guide judges as they decide whether a witness is likely to be unavailable to testify at trial. The issues that judges consider include:

• the witness’s health (is the witness sick or infirm?)
• the witness’s age (is the witness 65 years of age or older?)
• the witness’s residency (is the witness about to leave the state or country?)
• the witness’s safety (has the witness’s life or well-being been threatened?), and
• the witness’s custody status (is the witness about to be imprisoned, released from custody or deported?)

What Are Criminal Depositions? When Are Depositions Allowed? - Lawyers.com
In criminal cases, depositions are normally taken to preserve testimony from a witness.
A deposition isn't meant as a discovery device in a criminal case.

Thank you CC that is good information. I wonder why AW wants their juvenile records?

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you CC that is good information. I wonder why AW wants their juvenile records?

I'll repost this for you it's the information I found yesterday:

#3) DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR DISCLOSURE OF THE JUVENILE RECORDS OF PLAINTIFF'S WITNESSES FILED

Defendant moves this Court to order the prosecuting attorney to disclose the juvenile records of the witnesses the State intends to call at trial.

"....Bias is demonstrated by a witness like, dislike, or fear of a party, or by the witness self-interest.
The juvenile records counsel seeks the State to disclose are necessary to show possible biases, prejudices, and ulterior motives on the part of the witnesses for the State.

Exceptions to Confidentiality of Juvenile Criminal Records
Juvenile criminal records are confidential in most circumstances, but the exceptions are significant.

Right to confront
The alleged privacy interest of any adult State witnesses with a juvenile record is vitiated (destroyed impaired) by the defendants confrontation rights if the State elects to call this witness.

Failure to provide this information to Defendant will deprive him of his rights under the State and Federal Constitutions to confrontation, effective assistance of counsel, due process of law, equal protection of law, and freedom from cruel and unusual punishment...."

 

[Betty P]

I'll repost this for you it's the information I found yesterday:

#3) DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR DISCLOSURE OF THE JUVENILE RECORDS OF PLAINTIFF'S WITNESSES FILED

Defendant moves this Court to order the prosecuting attorney to disclose the juvenile records of the witnesses the State intends to call at trial.

"....Bias is demonstrated by a witness like, dislike, or fear of a party, or by the witness self-interest.
The juvenile records counsel seeks the State to disclose are necessary to show possible biases, prejudices, and ulterior motives on the part of the witnesses for the State.

Exceptions to Confidentiality of Juvenile Criminal Records
Juvenile criminal records are confidential in most circumstances, but the exceptions are significant.

Right to confront
The alleged privacy interest of any adult State witnesses with a juvenile record is vitiated (destroyed impaired) by the defendants confrontation rights if the State elects to call this witness.

Failure to provide this information to Defendant will deprive him of his rights under the State and Federal Constitutions to confrontation, effective assistance of counsel, due process of law, equal protection of law, and freedom from cruel and unusual punishment...."

Well, apparently the defendants are really worried about what this witness told LE and prosecution. That's good.

IANAL, but this seems like its meant to apply when the witness is still a juvenile and the crime was committed when he was a juvenile. If this witness is no longer a juvenile and the crimes he witnessed happened when he was an adult, this wouldn't apply.

Maybe I read this wrong, but I assumed the defense wants to reveal something about the witness and a crime he committed when he was a juvenile, which really wouldn't be relevant to this case. JMO, the judge isn't going to rule in their favor on this one.

 

[Betty P]

Thank you CC that is good information. I wonder why AW wants their juvenile records?

To smear the witness's reputation and convince the jury to ignore their testimony about what they may have seen or heard in relation to the R/G murders.

Hypothetically speaking, the defense argument might be something like "AW caught the witness stealing hubcaps 30 years ago when he was 13 and reported him to LE, so you have to ignore his testimony because he doesn't like AW for turning him in."

JMO and just speculating.

 

[Cool Cats]

Well, apparently the defendants are really worried about what this witness told LE and prosecution. That's good.

IANAL, but this seems like its meant to apply when the witness is still a juvenile and the crime was committed when he was a juvenile. If this witness is no longer a juvenile and the crimes he witnessed happened when he was an adult, this wouldn't apply.

Maybe I read this wrong, but I assumed the defense wants to reveal something about the witness and a crime he committed when he was a juvenile, which really wouldn't be relevant to this case. JMO, the judge isn't going to rule in their favor on this one.

BBM

Perhaps this is a very young witness so juvenile records are much more relevant?

Thankx good point to keep in mind, that the judge may rule that the defense is "overreaching" and the juvenile records simply are not relevant to Angela's Case.

 

[Cool Cats]

To smear the witness's reputation and convince the jury to ignore their testimony about what they may have seen or heard in relation to the R/G murders.

Hypothetically speaking, the defense argument might be something like "AW caught the witness stealing hubcaps 30 years ago when he was 13 and reported him to LE, so you have to ignore his testimony because he doesn't like AW for turning him in."

JMO and just speculating.

BBM

The Motion itself "represents disclosing the juvenile records so Angie gets a fair trial!"
However, I agree with you on the deeper motive to impugn the witness's reputation, thus casting doubt on witness Testimony. I "hear" a lot of Objections going on from the defense, with the defense pursuing Objections to get the Judge to say "Sustained! The Jury will disregard this Testimony."

 

[Betty P]

BBM

The Motion itself "represents disclosing the juvenile records so Angie gets a fair trial!"
However, I agree with you on the deeper motive to impugn the witness's reputation, thus casting doubt on witness Testimony. I "hear" a lot of Objections going on from the defense, with the defense pursuing Objections to get the Judge to say "Sustained! The Jury will disregard this Testimony."

Yes, some of these trials could be lengthy, depending on the defense team and defendant. You can tell by looking at the number of motions filed for each defendant, it varies quite a bit. Yet they're all charged the same and were (likely) equally involved in the planning, stalking and killing. How much different can their defense strategies be? Depends on the lawyers. JMO

 

[Chelly]

Is the witness one of the defendants?