OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #27

[Betty P]

They're dirt poor but land rich. They put up land.

I keep wondering, though. If JM and BJM are so guilty, why didn't they run the way the JW family did? Did the Manleys know that LE would chase them down and catch them, whereas JW's family knew LE would let them go?

At first I thought LE had messed up in letting the JW family escape, but the longer this drags on without pursuit, the more I think they had advance notice of the raids on their farms. They probably didn't have a lot of advance notice, hence the need to quickly pile everything into trailers and drop them at their friend's. They went from selling items on Ebay to dumping everything and running. :thinking:

Now they feel comfortable enough to post photos on FB at their new location. They knew LE would not follow them, and they haven't. That probably wouldn't have happened if Manley's had left town. IMO, someone inside law enforcement is helping JW & family and they've had that kind of help before. Since LE continues to hint that drugs are part of the investigation, it's possible some members of JW's family have been involved in that business in the past and had the cooperation of some members of local LE (or former LE) in those endeavors.

Not sure why, but it means a lot that the JW family ran and the Manley family stayed and JM turned himself in to LE on the property damage charge. . People guilty of mass murder don't usually turn themselves in, volunteer for polys or talk to LE without an attorney. :moo:

 

[Dudly]

I think that's an assumption based on JW responding to a FB post on his profile that his religion doesn't allow/approve the celebration of Halloween. I had done a search a long time ago when I first saw that and Jehovah Witnesses was what I remember coming up on the search.

Did he say his religion didn't allow it? I know from living in a rural area that many in those type areas don't do the trick or treat thing because there aren't enough neighbors close by to make it worth the effort.

 

[pamelado2]

I think that's an assumption based on JW responding to a FB post on his profile that his religion doesn't allow/approve the celebration of Halloween. I had done a search a long time ago when I first saw that and Jehovah Witnesses was what I remember coming up on the search.

I'm in the South and in my area a few different area churches (including Jehovah's Witnesses) don't celebrate Halloween because of it's origins. And I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses - a very easy tell, JW has Christmas posts on FB, and he wouldn't if he were a Witness. (We also don't celebrate that because of the origins)

 

[Betty P]

I am excited reading all these interesting theories and let me ad, if you saw
One of my favorite Burger King commercials, you will understand my quote.
Let me ask,"WHERE IS THE BEEF?" It seems like I am being led around
by a shadowy government in an attempt to direct my attention from the
Beef and concentrate on the lettuce and onions..The shadow government
is large and deceptive..All this briefing about raiding farms,GPS gadgets
and possible suspects leaving for Alaska just ads to my conviction that
the PIKE County courts or government officials are not worried about
the killing of the Rhoden family like we are led to believe..They have had
at least one custody hearing where it is reported that one child is placed in
the care of her reported father. The custody hearing I am anticipating to be
a shocker is the hearing involving HR's last baby. That baby might never
have a father identified because the shadowy government can't force the
bio father to be tested. He is protected by law...( from self inclinations)
The Beef is there, but invisiable...

Not sure about shadow government, but you make some good points. It's no secret that Pike and surrounding counties have a history of "conflicts of interest" among some of it's leaders and LE.

I also wonder about the custody of HR's youngest baby. It was in the news media recently that JW is not the bio father, but that he claimed he still wanted custody. That seems a little "authoritarian". As it appears he and/or his family may have been involved in the murders, it explains why LE decided to "hide" the child with a foster family. Explains a lot that I didn't understand before.

 

[pamelado2]

Halloween is All-Hallows'-Eve which is the night-before-All-Saints'- Day. However Jehovah Witnesses are not permitted to own guns. So, either JW was a very new convert to Jehovah Witness church or he ins't a practicing Jehovah Witness, or never has been a Jehovah Witness at all.
http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/all-hallow-s-eve.html

ETA: There are photos of guns on his SM.

Jehovah's Witnesses are "allowed" to own guns, I grew up in a rural area where hunting was a necessity for some people (my father included) if they wanted meat on the table during winter months when work was slow or non existent.

I have a Witness friend that owns a pistol because he likes going target practicing.

I realize it's easy to Google for "facts" but it's not always accurate. JW.org had a search feature if you ever want to check what you find.

 

[rsd1200]

How far back do you go? Do you kill all of them?

They managed to kill an uncle, a cousin, and a girlfriend and they didn't mind going down to Left Fork to kill the uncle. After killing six people on Union Hill, what's two more? It's obvious they're wiping out an entire family. LM is right there next to DR, they had to drive about ten miles to get KR.

 

[Dudly]

Under which circumstances, a 40y father texts a 23y old kid and a mother texts another mother at 1 or 2am during the night on a Thursday evening, in the school year.

Think about it. Do not sleuth anybody. We don't know what is in the text

JM is the great uncle to JW's daughter. They likely have many shared interests like hunting, fishing, offroading, sports teams, working on trucks, etc..
I'm part of a group that gets together occasionally to socialize. About half are over 60 and half under 50.We talk about pro and college sports, jobs, kids, grand kids, and life in general.

AM is Dr's sister in law. She is aunt and great aunt to DR's children and grand children. AM might be a night owl like me. I seldom go to bed before 12:00 to 1:00 am. She may have seen DR posting on social media and texted her to ask why she was still up or to ask about the baby. She may have asked how HR is doing. She might have asked about work. Who knows?

If LM is correct and JM sent that text 8:00 pm or 9:00 pm or what ever, it makes things even less suspicious to me. I hear people talk about not getting texts or not getting them till the next day. So, to me, that part is quite plausible, too... Now if the text was sent at 2:00 am and it said, "Everything is a go", that would be different. But we do not know that...

 

[rsd1200]

Jehovah's Witnesses are "allowed" to own guns, I grew up in a rural area where hunting was a necessity for some people (my father included) if they wanted meat on the table during winter months when work was slow or non existent.

I have a Witness friend that owns a pistol because he likes going target practicing.

I realize it's easy to Google for "facts" but it's not always accurate. JW.org had a search feature if you ever want to check what you find.

We had a few Jehovah Witnesses in our family. It was my understanding that they were pacifists and only had firearms for hunting (and even then it was not encouraged). The guns I saw were not what I'd think of as used for "hunting". I don't know a lot about the religion but a few things I remembered some of the family telling me. I've been very clear that idk if he's a Jehovah Witness or not. Just b/c he doesn't allow his child to trick or treat doesn't make him a Jehovah Witness. Many churches around here provide "Trunk or Treat" for the community. The kids dress up and go to the church, and the church members even dress up, and pass out candy from the trunks of their cars. eta: Some folks though, don't do the trick or treat thing and they aren't Jehovah Witnesses.

 

[rsd1200]

]I keep wondering, though. If JM and BJM are so guilty, why didn't they run the way the JW family did?[/B] Did the Manleys know that LE would chase them down and catch them, whereas JW's family knew LE would let them go?

At first I thought LE had messed up in letting the JW family escape, but the longer this drags on without pursuit, the more I think they had advance notice of the raids on their farms. They probably didn't have a lot of advance notice, hence the need to quickly pile everything into trailers and drop them at their friend's. They went from selling items on Ebay to dumping everything and running. :thinking:

Now they feel comfortable enough to post photos on FB at their new location. They knew LE would not follow them, and they haven't. That probably wouldn't have happened if Manley's had left town. IMO, someone inside law enforcement is helping JW & family and they've had that kind of help before. Since LE continues to hint that drugs are part of the investigation, it's possible some members of JW's family have been involved in that business in the past and had the cooperation of some members of local LE (or former LE) in those endeavors.

Not sure why, but it means a lot that the JW family ran and the Manley family stayed and JM turned himself in to LE on the property damage charge. . People guilty of mass murder don't usually turn themselves in, volunteer for polys or talk to LE without an attorney. :moo:

BBM

If they wanted to run, I don't think that they'd have the means to run. I can't see JM putting AM and his kid(s) into a car and just taking off. Their home is on LM's stretch of property so they couldn't sell out like the Ws. Money put things in a different perspective for the Ws.

 

[Dudly]

I'm leaning toward your two theories on KR. What messes me up the most now that all of this has broke loose, with the JW and JM stuff, is that if they thought that KR would talk, they had to know that LM was going to talk. It was one of the first things out of his mouth "this road rage thing and child custody thing". You know that LE had those texts within days after the murders (weeks at the latest) and has grilled everyone over the custody and road rage things. Why is LM alive? He's very vocal and knew enough about the situation to point LE in a specific direction. He and his wife were within spittin distance of DM but they left someone alive with knowledge of a custody fight, a custody payoff attempt, and a physical fight over custody, and he's been talking since day one. Him being alive puts a kink in the JW, JM, theory for me. Did someone else who had an interest in JW getting the baby, do this, and forget about the M side? If it was JM and JW did they make a deal that L&J were off limits? Or is custody the wrong track? Or is that why the Ms are on a vacation? Had to toss that out there. it's bugging me.

When and where was a custody payoff attempt and physical fight over custody mentioned?

 

[Dudly]

That's why LE and the family both say the dogs knew the killers, they would have attacked strangers.
I always wondered if BJM had to lock up or chain the dogs for LE to come on the property.

Some where it was mentioned one dog was in a chair on the porch at CRsr's house. Nothing I recall has ever been mentioned that the dogs at CRsr's house had to be restrained. DS said he had to restrain KR's dog.

 

[rsd1200]

JM is the great uncle to JW's daughter. They likely have many shared interests like hunting, fishing, offroading, sports teams, working on trucks, etc..
I'm part of a group that gets together occasionally to socialize. About half are over 60 and half under 50.We talk about pro and college sports, jobs, kids, grand kids, and life in general.

AM is Dr's sister in law. She is aunt and great aunt to DR's children and grand children. AM might be a night owl like me. I seldom go to bed before 12:00 to 1:00 am. She may have seen DR posting on social media and texted her to ask why she was still up or to ask about the baby. She may have asked how HR is doing. She might have asked about work. Who knows?

If LM is correct and JM sent that text 8:00 pm or 9:00 pm or what ever, it makes things even less suspicious to me. I hear people talk about not getting texts or not getting them till the next day. So, to me, that part is quite plausible, too... Now if the text was sent at 2:00 am and it said, "Everything is a go", that would be different. But we do not know that...

BBM
Happens between my brother and me all of the time. If I text him I can guarantee he won't see it til at least 24 hours later, sometimes even longer. Neither of us check our phones. I had five calls from my parents the other day. My spouse had two from them. By the time we noticed they'd called, they thought I was in the e.r. (or dead).

 

[Tiff23fr]

BBM
Happens between my brother and me all of the time. If I text him I can guarantee he won't see it til at least 24 hours later, sometimes even longer. Neither of us check our phones. I had five calls from my parents the other day. My spouse had two from them. By the time we noticed they'd called, they thought I was in the e.r. (or dead).

If there is a discrepancy wouldn't LE have two records to verify from? The outgoing time on JM's phone records and the incoming time on JW's records.

 

[Dudly]

If LE are right about the direction they are heading, they really dropped the ball.

Why did it take them a year to act when they must have had a long time ago, most, if not all, the evidence they have now? If BJM is ruled in, they aren't saying, they have publicly brought all the suspicion on the W family and JM.
Why didn't they name JW as a POI or suspect and forbid him from leaving, if that's what he is? Surely they were watching him since they had suspicious texts from the night of the murder and saw him selling his house, packing up and talking about Alaska. They let him go and now they're searching his stuff, I guess they took it where all the other confiscated trailers are sitting. It's crazy.

I hope this doesn't tie into some corrupt Ohio LE, it would be a lot easier for someone to pull it off if they had some training in killing and forensics.

Maybe the LE searching JW's property and household items was to finalize ruling them out. That said, if they were guilty, I can't see them leaving evidence in a trailer on someone else's property.

 

[rsd1200]

If there is a discrepancy wouldn't LE have two records to verify from? The outgoing time on JM's phone records and the incoming time on JW's records.

That they would. I would think they would have pulled the records at their respective phone companies too.

ETA: I don't know how that would work w/ knowing what time he actually saw the text. It would have the time/date sent from one phone and the time/date received on the other, though.

 

[Dudly]

I keep wondering, though. If JM and BJM are so guilty, why didn't they run the way the JW family did? Did the Manleys know that LE would chase them down and catch them, whereas JW's family knew LE would let them go?

At first I thought LE had messed up in letting the JW family escape, but the longer this drags on without pursuit, the more I think they had advance notice of the raids on their farms. They probably didn't have a lot of advance notice, hence the need to quickly pile everything into trailers and drop them at their friend's. They went from selling items on Ebay to dumping everything and running. :thinking:

Now they feel comfortable enough to post photos on FB at their new location. They knew LE would not follow them, and they haven't. That probably wouldn't have happened if Manley's had left town. IMO, someone inside law enforcement is helping JW & family and they've had that kind of help before. Since LE continues to hint that drugs are part of the investigation, it's possible some members of JW's family have been involved in that business in the past and had the cooperation of some members of local LE (or former LE) in those endeavors.

Not sure why, but it means a lot that the JW family ran and the Manley family stayed and JM turned himself in to LE on the property damage charge. . People guilty of mass murder don't usually turn themselves in, volunteer for polys or talk to LE without an attorney. :moo:

Maybe it all means the W's got an offer on the property that was for sale a long time and took it. Part of the sale agreement was immediate possession. Maybe LE let them move because they are excluded from the list of possible perps. Or, they don't have enough on them to prevent them from moving away. We do not know that JW ran. He moved an apparently was allowed to do that.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Under which circumstances, a 40y father texts a 23y old kid and a mother texts another mother at 1 or 2am during the night on a Thursday evening, in the school year.

Think about it. Do not sleuth anybody. We don't know what is in the text

That 40y father has 2 sons who live with him that are about the age of that 23y. Who knows who had access to those two phones?

 

[Dudly]

I'm in the South and in my area a few different area churches (including Jehovah's Witnesses) don't celebrate Halloween because of it's origins. And I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses - a very easy tell, JW has Christmas posts on FB, and he wouldn't if he were a Witness. (We also don't celebrate that because of the origins)

You are right about Christmas. A member of Jehovah Witnesses bought a company I worked for. He did not allow Christmas decorations and unfortunately no longer allowed Christmas bonuses.

 

[Dudly]

Not sure about shadow government, but you make some good points. It's no secret that Pike and surrounding counties have a history of "conflicts of interest" among some of it's leaders and LE.

I also wonder about the custody of HR's youngest baby. It was in the news media recently that JW is not the bio father, but that he claimed he still wanted custody. That seems a little "authoritarian". As it appears he and/or his family may have been involved in the murders, it explains why LE decided to "hide" the child with a foster family. Explains a lot that I didn't understand before.

Where in the news media was it said JW is not the father of HR's baby? I don't recall seeing that...

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think one of the reasons I've been more fascinated with this case than others (aside from the fact that an entire family was murdered in their sleep at 4 separate locations in the dead of the night; and not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse) is in large part because there are so many outside factors that MAY OR MAY NOT be related.

We're dealing with a commercial drug grow operation, custody disputes, family disagreements, road rage incidents, possible fighting and/or gambling rings, FB threats, unusual dog behavior, the buying/selling/trading/dismantling of an insane number of vehicles (remember allll those cars they had towed away...) and TBH, who knows what else.

On top of all that, there's the mother and daughter who were killed in a similar fashion in a nearby town. It's like a scattershot... none of it (or all of it) seems to connect.

We know DeWine LOVES using the jigsaw puzzle analogy (Lord knows, I've heard him use it one too many times in reference to this case), but I'm having a difficult time connecting this 1000-piece puzzle.

Granted, they probably have a better box picture to compare the puzzle pieces to... but I don't understand their timing with these latest developments.

Why would they wait an entire year to track JM, if they suspect he knows something or was withholding information? And, why would LE search land that wasn't even owned by the Ws at the time of the murders?

And I still wonder why they just HAD to move and guard those trailers. This case is so crazy that it's frustrating.


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bbm

I am starting to believe all this is designed to put pressure on people to talk.

LE is pretty good at judging the temperament of people and predicting their actions. It is possible LE put that device on JM's truck knowing he would find it and destroy it. Then arrest him and put some pressure on him. They may have known he or someone in his household would tell JW when he found it also.

In my opinion there are too many coincidences. Granted the W's apparently had their home up for sale for a while, but this hurried move right after the tracker was installed and then found looks like running.