OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #30

[rsd1200]

I've been away from the forum for 5 weeks after I got a new cell phone and couldn't remember my WS password. I've gone half crazy not being able to check in here twice a day like always.

Its unbelievable how little new information there is. No leaks, nothing. This case has been on my mind every single day since the Rhodens and Miss Gilley were hunted down and murdered. It is good to see you guys are still here making sure their lives are not forgotten.

Same here evelezrn, I rarely miss a day at least checking in and these folks are on my mind every day. Spoke with an Ohio friend yesterday and they said it's just weird that there's NOTHING, and we talked about that there's something more to this, and the fact that the families just don't have any pull in the community, let alone the county, or the state of Ohio, to do much about it.

 

[samanthalawson69]

One thing that has been noticeably missing, at least to me, is any mention of the cousin BR any where. No mention he had been interviewed, that he lived in or nearby the crime scenes, nothing. No public comment or interview with him, either. Did he move because he was asked to? Did he fear what might happen?

As far as "cartel" involvement, they can have local members to monitor/police what is happening in the area. I just can not believe a couple local people did this and was able to leave no evidence to catch them unless, it did not happen as portrayed. Only accurate times of death would prove that it all happened in a few hours time. Those times are likely in the autopsy reports.

What about the cousin who called 911 saying he was being chased by a green Chrysler? It was on the Kentucky side so it would have been handled here. If it was true I'm sure he was scared to death. If not then that's a whole different issue.

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[Betty P]

Well while we wait and wait. Here's my summary of what I know so far, and this is JMO's.

We have/had a close family with 3 children, 4 adults, 2 "legal" adults, and one 16 year old. Parents were divorced, but seemed to be reconciling. It was "complicated". They seemed to be living in separate residences. Households also contained 3/4 grandchildren and ?many dogs for protection/pets? Mother and children had all been living together next door to father for how long? Eldest son's girlfriend/fiance also lived there with them.
A month prior to the murders, father purchased new property, down the road from his property. Cash down payment of 30,000 with 30.000 owed. In March 2016, mother, pregnant daughter, 1 grandchild and 16 yr. old move to new property. Eldest son, gf and 1 grandchild remain in the trailer, with cousin of son living with them? Cousin moves out about a week before murders? Father and his cousin remain in the other trailer on the property. Brother of Father and partner in "businesses" lives a few miles down from the rest of family.

Entire family has a reputation for strong, no-nonsense people, who take care of their own problems. But also "good hearted" and a "giving" family. Kept to themselves pretty much, and seemed to be "low-key" in the community of Piketon. Lived on a road that was "isolated" pretty much from the community.

Troubles we know the family was experenceing:

CRsr, KR, GR, FR and DR where all involved in "businesses" in some way. BR, and DS and other extended family members helped in some way? (cars, grow, etc) Manley family who lived very close by were also "helping" ? Some neighbors may have been "helping" also, and possibly "knew" what was going on. Some could have resented being "used".
,
CRjr was having trouble at school, fighting and getting into trouble. Fight with kids at Mc Donalds parking lot? He and FR involved with a neighbor, resulting in injuries?

Dana and CRjr involved in altercation with RCA, resulting in restraining order againest RCA . Her arrest for assault on CRjr.

Custody battle between JW and HR over Soph. Possible fight between CRsr and BW a couple of weeks prior to murders ? Maybe CRsr and BW had been business accosciates and best friends? But trouble between their children ended it?

A lot of jealousy in extended families over CRsr's supposed "wealth" ?

Grandfather CR arrested and convicted for "child molestation" supposedly to a minor family member. Anger toward CRSr and family for being involved in his early release from prison.

Drug cartel involvement, has it been ruled out by local LE who have stated " killers are local"?

Family on "alert" last couple of weeks, patroling properties and roads?

WRT family jealousy over CRSr's "wealth", that's only speculation on social media. Neither LE nor anyone in the news media has ever mentioned there was such a thing.

While CRSr and others had "businesses" all held down regular full time jobs to support their families. The other hobbies - derby cars, raising for fighting, alleged MJ grow op - would have been for extra money.

As for CRJr, it sounded to me like he was a typical 15-16 yo with temper problems - getting into an occasional fight. Another aspect of this family's life that seems to be blown out of proportion, JMO.

People have mulled over the revenge theory based on Clarence Rhoden serving time in prison for alleged molestation charges, but that happened many, many years ago. JMO, not relevant. People don't hold onto anger or rage over a dead person for a decade, especially the kind of rage necessary to kill 8 fellow family members.

Ohio LE has backed away from the drug cartel theory, but it's significant to note that the retired head of the DEA in Cincinnati thought from the beginning that it looked like the kind of mass killing done by a drug cartel. He would know, certainly more than PCSO, BCI or DeWine. I sure wish someone would do a follow up interview with him.

Re: signs that the Rhoden family was upset about something in the weeks before the murders seems relevant. Leonard Manley mentioned a previous incident on UHR with PCSO coming out. He said the sheriff's officers behaved badly. He lamented that it would be covered up, "they've been covering this stuff up for years".

https://www.facebook.com/GlobalNews/videos/1020725427975222/

LM says the W family tried to get Hanna to sign away parental rights to her daughter SR, just 2-3 weeks before the murders

http://local12.com/news/local/quest...unty-massacre-investigators-search-properties

 

[IceIce9]

3 people murdered and a child is missing roughly 40 miles from where the Rhoden murders occurred:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/12/ohio-killings-3-people-shot-dead-1-stabbed-missing-child-alert-canceled.amp.html

 

[Cryptic]

I dunno, local first time killers in a major killing spree with lots of people to talk would seem LE could solve it by now.

I agree. The magnitude of the crime and successful implementation seems way out of the league of any local backwoods crime clan types as well as any locals with honor grudges. Then factor in, as you mentioned, locals would likely not tell anybody- except their current girlfriend and the "cool" ex con at the bar. Both of these people can keep secrets (not).

My guess is that local attackers would have generated the following headline: 1 dead, 1 wounded after gunshots fired into two rural homes or "Local man Killed in Tavern Parking Lot".

 

[bighairdontcare]

3 people murdered and a child is missing roughly 40 miles from where the Rhoden murders occurred:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/1...stabbed-missing-child-alert-canceled.amp.html

Look here - multiple victims in different locations found dead- suspect or person of interest already named and being sought!
I doubt these case are linked but this just goes to confirm how unbelievable and unacceptable it is that the Rhoden Family Massacre has pretty much gone cold.


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[Jennifer17]

I can't believe that any cartel hit squads would have left the babies alive.

 

[amauet1]

Thanks for the response, just trying to keep the thread and conversations open. I also try (but it is very hard) to keep my emotions out of it of my posts. I guess what I was getting at is I myself, really don't know anything about why these murders happened after a year and a half. The things I listed are what I've gathered in my notes from here and other websites, media, etc. I am still not any farther than the beginning of this case. I know more about the family, the community and surrounding areas. Some about neighbors and a whole lot of rumors.
IMO, everything I do know has come from media, (trying to get a sensational story out), opinions from devastated family members and carefully guarded LE, AG, and BCI. Why all the secret's? What are "they" trying to keep from us the public and supposed suspects?
We all have at least a couple of theories by now, but I'd like to introduce another.
One of the reason's I can think of is this has something to do with crooked officials in this region. It wouldn't be the first or last time this has happened. I don't know if it is past or present officials, but with all the secrecy it would implicate present. Do we have a bunch of "good ole boys" in high places? What does everyone else think of this possiblity? All this is JMO

 

[samanthalawson69]

I can't believe that any cartel hit squads would have left the babies alive.

Exactly. They sure wouldn't have left a 3 year old alive who could talk. There's something else that's bothering me. Why the big difference in the first 3 crime scenes and the last. Could you see a cartel waiting so long to kill their last victim?

IMHO

 

[goofyone]

Thanks for the response, just trying to keep the thread and conversations open. I also try (but it is very hard) to keep my emotions out of it of my posts. I guess what I was getting at is I myself, really don't know anything about why these murders happened after a year and a half. The things I listed are what I've gathered in my notes from here and other websites, media, etc. I am still not any farther than the beginning of this case. I know more about the family, the community and surrounding areas. Some about neighbors and a whole lot of rumors.
IMO, everything I do know has come from media, (trying to get a sensational story out), opinions from devastated family members and carefully guarded LE, AG, and BCI. Why all the secret's? What are "they" trying to keep from us the public and supposed suspects?
We all have at least a couple of theories by now, but I'd like to introduce another.
One of the reason's I can think of is this has something to do with crooked officials in this region. It wouldn't be the first or last time this has happened. I don't know if it is past or present officials, but with all the secrecy it would implicate present. Do we have a bunch of "good ole boys" in high places? What does everyone else think of this possiblity? All this is JMO

I completely agree... there's a reason nobody seems to care if this gets solved..somebody has a lot to lose by it getting solved

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[samanthalawson69]

Thanks for the response, just trying to keep the thread and conversations open. I also try (but it is very hard) to keep my emotions out of it of my posts. I guess what I was getting at is I myself, really don't know anything about why these murders happened after a year and a half. The things I listed are what I've gathered in my notes from here and other websites, media, etc. I am still not any farther than the beginning of this case. I know more about the family, the community and surrounding areas. Some about neighbors and a whole lot of rumors.
IMO, everything I do know has come from media, (trying to get a sensational story out), opinions from devastated family members and carefully guarded LE, AG, and BCI. Why all the secret's? What are "they" trying to keep from us the public and supposed suspects?
We all have at least a couple of theories by now, but I'd like to introduce another.
One of the reason's I can think of is this has something to do with crooked officials in this region. It wouldn't be the first or last time this has happened. I don't know if it is past or present officials, but with all the secrecy it would implicate present. Do we have a bunch of "good ole boys" in high places? What does everyone else think of this possiblity? All this is JMO

I think it very well could be cops involved. I would believe that before I would believe outside people did it.

IMHO

 

[rsd1200]

Thanks for the response, just trying to keep the thread and conversations open. I also try (but it is very hard) to keep my emotions out of it of my posts. I guess what I was getting at is I myself, really don't know anything about why these murders happened after a year and a half. The things I listed are what I've gathered in my notes from here and other websites, media, etc. I am still not any farther than the beginning of this case. I know more about the family, the community and surrounding areas. Some about neighbors and a whole lot of rumors.
IMO, everything I do know has come from media, (trying to get a sensational story out), opinions from devastated family members and carefully guarded LE, AG, and BCI. Why all the secret's? What are "they" trying to keep from us the public and supposed suspects?
We all have at least a couple of theories by now, but I'd like to introduce another.
One of the reason's I can think of is this has something to do with crooked officials in this region. It wouldn't be the first or last time this has happened. I don't know if it is past or present officials, but with all the secrecy it would implicate present. Do we have a bunch of "good ole boys" in high places? What does everyone else think of this possiblity? All this is JMO

BBM
I've thought about that on more than one occasion. They could come in and out, they'd know how to try and stage a scene, they'd know how to get past dogs, and they'd know the people and the area. No one mentioned the dogs acted freaked out that day except for KR's. CR1's pits were sitting in the recliner on the front porch, definitely out of place, per BJM, but not aggressive, and no one mentioned DR's dogs acting out. I think that KR's dog must have known KR's murderer because of DS having to restrain her that day. She didn't know them. Was there a person in an official position, who dropped by those places every now and then, that the family got entangled with? Idk, but, I'd think it possible.

One of the reasons that I think it wasn't about a Mexican Cartel, or pot, is because of this interview:

It wasn't a Mexican drug cartel. The killers weren't from another country.
The people who wiped out eight members of a family in Pike County last April are likely locals.

Tim Reagan, head of Cincinnati’s Drug Enforcement Administration office, said he's confident that's not the case.
"I think if there was a strong Mexican cartel connection I'd feel more comfortable with telling you,” he said. “I don't see it."

And Dana's father, Leonard Manley, agrees with that theory.
"Whoever did this had to know the dog, had to know where the security system was," he said, referring to Gary's house.

[FONT=&quot]"It wasn't because they had a couple of little indoor grows. It wasn't because there was just a couple of cars on the property that may have been stolen," Reader said. "It's much bigger than that."[/FONT]

http://www.wcpo.com/longform/pike-c...lers-in-rhoden-family-homicides-may-be-locals

I don't know if they are still looking at them or not, but, early on they interviewed individuals from Chillicothe. Those may still be on the radar, but they just don't have enough to connect the dots for a slam dunk case yet.

Video from WCPO (@5:00 minute mark)

[video=youtube;ot87Gmm0s2c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot87Gmm0s2c[/video]

 

[rsd1200]

Exactly. They sure wouldn't have left a 3 year old alive who could talk. There's something else that's bothering me. Why the big difference in the first 3 crime scenes and the last. Could you see a cartel waiting so long to kill their last victim?

IMHO

With KR, he could very well have been first. We only know that he was found last. That may have been part of the attempted staging too. Maybe make it look like KR had committed murder/suicide. That's harder to stage than folks realize.

 

[samanthalawson69]

With KR, he could very well have been first. We only know that he was found last. That may have been part of the attempted staging too. Maybe make it look like KR had committed murder/suicide. That's harder to stage than folks realize.

Makes since really. It also points to something more sinister than a cartel.

IMHO

 

[Betty P]

Exactly. They sure wouldn't have left a 3 year old alive who could talk. There's something else that's bothering me. Why the big difference in the first 3 crime scenes and the last. Could you see a cartel waiting so long to kill their last victim?

IMHO

We don't really know that KR wasn't killed shortly after or even before the others. No information made public. Some of the information I read on the redacted AR's indicates he may have been killed around the same time as CRSr and others. Hard to say for sure, depending on other environmental factors affecting decomp. JMO

 

[Betty P]

Thanks for the response, just trying to keep the thread and conversations open. I also try (but it is very hard) to keep my emotions out of it of my posts. I guess what I was getting at is I myself, really don't know anything about why these murders happened after a year and a half. The things I listed are what I've gathered in my notes from here and other websites, media, etc. I am still not any farther than the beginning of this case. I know more about the family, the community and surrounding areas. Some about neighbors and a whole lot of rumors.
IMO, everything I do know has come from media, (trying to get a sensational story out), opinions from devastated family members and carefully guarded LE, AG, and BCI. Why all the secret's? What are "they" trying to keep from us the public and supposed suspects?
We all have at least a couple of theories by now, but I'd like to introduce another.
One of the reason's I can think of is this has something to do with crooked officials in this region. It wouldn't be the first or last time this has happened. I don't know if it is past or present officials, but with all the secrecy it would implicate present. Do we have a bunch of "good ole boys" in high places? What does everyone else think of this possiblity? All this is JMO

Over the last few months, this theory has become higher on my list.

At first I thought perhaps the delay in solving the case was due to some other big ongoing investigation that would be compromised. Also thought it was going slow to protect federal agents working undercover on drug trafficking, etc. But it's been going on too long, now to justify those theories. The way LE went out of their way to stage the raids last summer with no participation from federal agents was very odd. Also the way they refused to question anyone from the W family, even though their home had been raided.

The growing problem of addiction and drug use in the region, yet relatively few busts for drug trafficking also raises a red flag.

In one of the last interviews DeWine gave, he let slip that there was only one person from BCI working full time on the case.

The way DeWine's attorney fought so hard during depositions of the county coroner to prevent him from revealing that the AG & BCI did the redactions on the autopsy report. In the same deposition, the coroner said he didn't believe (nor did LE) that family had anything to do with the murders.

Seems the investigation isn't very active. Took them over a year to raid, arrest and question the local gentry in the drug trafficking circles. Crickets since then. No press conferences for months. The grand jury process has silenced all family members and friends. A cold case with no one allowed to talk.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Well while we wait and wait. Here's my summary of what I know so far, and this is JMO's.

We have/had a close family with 3 children, 4 adults, 2 "legal" adults, and one 16 year old. Parents were divorced, but seemed to be reconciling. It was "complicated". They seemed to be living in separate residences. Households also contained 3/4 grandchildren and ?many dogs for protection/pets? Mother and children had all been living together next door to father for how long? Eldest son's girlfriend/fiance also lived there with them.
A month prior to the murders, father purchased new property, down the road from his property. Cash down payment of 30,000 with 30.000 owed. In March 2016, mother, pregnant daughter, 1 grandchild and 16 yr. old move to new property. Eldest son, gf and 1 grandchild remain in the trailer, with cousin of son living with them? Cousin moves out about a week before murders? Father and his cousin remain in the other trailer on the property. Brother of Father and partner in "businesses" lives a few miles down from the rest of family.

Entire family has a reputation for strong, no-nonsense people, who take care of their own problems. But also "good hearted" and a "giving" family. Kept to themselves pretty much, and seemed to be "low-key" in the community of Piketon. Lived on a road that was "isolated" pretty much from the community.

Troubles we know the family was experenceing:

CRsr, KR, GR, FR and DR where all involved in "businesses" in some way. BR, and DS and other extended family members helped in some way? (cars, grow, etc) Manley family who lived very close by were also "helping" ? Some neighbors may have been "helping" also, and possibly "knew" what was going on. Some could have resented being "used".
,
CRjr was having trouble at school, fighting and getting into trouble. Fight with kids at Mc Donalds parking lot? He and FR involved with a neighbor, resulting in injuries?

Dana and CRjr involved in altercation with RCA, resulting in restraining order againest RCA . Her arrest for assault on CRjr.

Custody battle between JW and HR over Soph. Possible fight between CRsr and BW a couple of weeks prior to murders ? Maybe CRsr and BW had been business accosciates and best friends? But trouble between their children ended it?

A lot of jealousy in extended families over CRsr's supposed "wealth" ?

Grandfather CR arrested and convicted for "child molestation" supposedly to a minor family member. Anger toward CRSr and family for being involved in his early release from prison.

Drug cartel involvement, has it been ruled out by local LE who have stated " killers are local"?

Family on "alert" last couple of weeks, patroling properties and roads?

Great summary of what we know so far. Good job!!!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

WRT family jealousy over CRSr's "wealth", that's only speculation on social media. Neither LE nor anyone in the news media has ever mentioned there was such a thing.

While CRSr and others had "businesses" all held down regular full time jobs to support their families. The other hobbies - derby cars, raising for fighting, alleged MJ grow op - would have been for extra money.

As for CRJr, it sounded to me like he was a typical 15-16 yo with temper problems - getting into an occasional fight. Another aspect of this family's life that seems to be blown out of proportion, JMO.

People have mulled over the revenge theory based on Clarence Rhoden serving time in prison for alleged molestation charges, but that happened many, many years ago. JMO, not relevant. People don't hold onto anger or rage over a dead person for a decade, especially the kind of rage necessary to kill 8 fellow family members.

Ohio LE has backed away from the drug cartel theory, but it's significant to note that the retired head of the DEA in Cincinnati thought from the beginning that it looked like the kind of mass killing done by a drug cartel. He would know, certainly more than PCSO, BCI or DeWine. I sure wish someone would do a follow up interview with him.

Re: signs that the Rhoden family was upset about something in the weeks before the murders seems relevant. Leonard Manley mentioned a previous incident on UHR with PCSO coming out. He said the sheriff's officers behaved badly. He lamented that it would be covered up, "they've been covering this stuff up for years".

https://www.facebook.com/GlobalNews/videos/1020725427975222/

LM says the W family tried to get Hanna to sign away parental rights to her daughter SR, just 2-3 weeks before the murders

http://local12.com/news/local/quest...unty-massacre-investigators-search-properties

Isn't the Lashee nursing home owned by the W'S?

 

[Betty P]

Going back to Leonard Manley's interview shortly after the murders, he mentions the altercation the weekend before. Didn't he say the sheriff was up there or deputies? That they behaved like "snots", meaning they were very mean to the family. Was it related to the custody fight with Hanna's daughter that he referred to earlier in the interview?

The Wagner family lived in Adams County. The grandparents lived in Scioto County. I wonder which LE was called to the scene of the altercation? If the W family had any pull with local law enforcement to help harass the Rhoden's wouldn't it be from officials in Adams Co? Recall, the W's were allowed to move to AK without their property being searched?

Just food for thought.

 

[rsd1200]

We don't really know that KR wasn't killed shortly after or even before the others. No information made public. Some of the information I read on the redacted AR's indicates he may have been killed around the same time as CRSr and others. Hard to say for sure, depending on other environmental factors affecting decomp. JMO

Are you referring to stomach contents? I did a whole research thing on stomach contents and t.o.d. and I cannot locate it! I guess I deleted off the far recesses of my hard drive. I've not had the get up and go to redo it.