OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

[Bootsctr]

I just watched a report on how expensive it is to have indoor grows. The reporter said it is expensive to have them because of the lighting and the watering of the plants. The report has me thinking of how much CR1's electric bill could have run. If he was running a legitimate business on the property I suppose he could have deducted a portion of his utilities on his taxes. Then in one article I saw that LM was wanting access to DR's trailer to get her purse and checkbook. I think they were needing the money for the funerals. A shame the family hasn't been allowed to have such items, especially a family bible that was in HMR's possession. I wonder if any of that kind of stuff was tagged and bagged as evidence or if it is all still within those homes?

I think JM was arrested to shut LM up. LM was always pretty talkative and would seem to hint that he knew, but would never step beyond to say what he knew. LE wanted him to keep quiet and he refused until JM was arrested. Kind of a strong arm tactic if you ask me, but LE did it anyway because they could. It's horrible that we have seen nothing that looks like justice for these 8 young men and women. It's not right that this case is seemingly at a standstill. I don't know how LE could in good conscience sleep at night knowing a mass murderer is still on the loose!

 

[rsd1200]

I don't think LM went in DR's trailer. LE arrived very quickly, they would have seen him. Recall from the timeline, JM flagged down one of the cars that was responding to BJM's 911 call. As BJM was standing in the doorway of DR's house, he could probably hear the sirens of the cars coming up UHR.

LM probably came up there right away and was there when LE was searching the home. Since everyone else they had found that morning had been shot in their sleep (I'm pretty sure BJM called JM and told him what she found at CR1 & FR's trailers), LM (and everyone else) probably assumed the same about CR2. It was early morning, 4 other people have been found dead inside their trailers, one dead person is found inside DR's, its logical. When LE kept coming out saying they couldn't find him, I'm sure LM was frustrated and told them to keep looking. Where else would he be at 7 am? No inside knowledge, just logic and reasoning.

No doubt emotions were running high that morning among the family members and LM was very upset. He and others long had a mistrust of some LE in the community and for good reason. There was a pretty long history of corruption in the Pike County SD. And any time you have bad police, it's usually the poorest folks in the community who get picked on the most. As LM said to the news media "they've been covering stuff up here for years". He's been determined to make sure they don't cover up the death of his daughter and grandkids, I can understand why he gets emotional about that.

If family members were involved, LE has had 2 years to find enough evidence to arrest them. They're poor people with no power or money, LE has no reason to protect them. If they could have arrested them, the would have. They're young people, not criminal geniuses, experienced at killing 8 people.

Iirc, LM was irritated over not finding CR2 for so long, but, no one had called JM. BJM: "She said she can't remember many details after the discoveries, including how her older brother, JM, came to find their sister DR dead in her trailer, which is north of the other two trailers on Union Hill Road." (2)

If you think back, there's been some different stories. One was, that LM had stopped in at DR's to pay his car payment, saw her leg, when he opened the door, heard the baby , and retreated, again, telling his wife "He could hear the baby crying and he backed up out of there,'' said his wife, AM, in a separate interview describing what her husband told her. "He didn't want to find his niece like that." (1) If he had not seen DR's body, then why did he think he'd see his niece "like that"? How did he get in? They didn't lock DR's place back up?

Another, was that BJM, called LE, after finding CR2 and GR. Then went on to find FR and HHG. However, LM says that BJM found FR & HHG, first, then went on to find CR2 and GR. Then BJM comes out and gets LM, and he went out there, and he said that JM went by DR's house, where "they", he and his son, again, Iirc, found them. (2) Note: it's in video at link. This was video right after the murders, 4/25/2016. Note, LM never says that anyone called JM though. JM was supposedly up at 2 a.m. w/ AM, texting, worked the late shift, but was up paying a car payment at 7 a.m.? With his son in tow? His son who is a paramedic. If LM and BJM went past DR's home, back to CR1's why not stop at DR's? I think they knew something was stirring. In the video, LM says that he won't say that DR was never afraid there.

CR2's trailer was said to be nothing but a "shell" by LM, too (Iirc). It was also stated that both CR2 and GR were drug to a back bedroom, and that CR2 was covered. It's been stated that DR was left lying right there in the where she could be partially seen from the doorway. Why wasn't she drug out of sight?

Did someone have some type of reason for covering CR2? Laying GR over him? They knew that BJM would likely find them and she had a long time connection, and affection, for the Rhodens? They had some sort of sympathy for her being that person? Did they try to shield her but she pulled the cover back? Possibly didn't know about the 2nd key? Is that why they locked the doors at FR's and HHG's too? "She is making decorations for their grave sites and plans to visit those soon. Manley said she helped her sister Dana raise her children and was helping Frankie and Hanna raise their new families." (2)

This came almost one month to the day, after CR2 bought DR that trailer. It's been rumored that the, what I call, office trailer, was not used for anything much but an office like structure. It's also been rumored that CR1 was staying with FR & HHG, and planned to move in with DR. GR may have been staying there too, which would explain why little R, didn't have a bedroom fixed up yet, and slept on the den couch.

What if they had gotten CR1 and GR to meet them at the old trailer, so as to better be able to handle two rather than three, or four, men? They may have taken care of KR first so he wouldn't show up at all, and I don't think that GR would be much difficulty b/c of the woman's statement, loosely quoted, "Hurting GR would be akin to kicking a dog." Maybe they just drug CR1 and GR to the back in case DR stopped after work, or a customer showed up, but why the cover over CR1? Speaks to familiarity.

I know that's as clear as mud. I've been thinking too much.

(1)https://www.10tv.com/article/pike-co-murder-victims-father-those-responsible-knew-family

(2) https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...unty-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/

 

[Betty P]

Iirc, LM was irritated over not finding CR2 for so long, but, no one had called JM. BJM: "She said she can't remember many details after the discoveries, including how her older brother, JM, came to find their sister DR dead in her trailer, which is north of the other two trailers on Union Hill Road." (2)

If you think back, there's been some different stories. One was, that LM had stopped in at DR's to pay his car payment, saw her leg, when he opened the door, heard the baby , and retreated, again, telling his wife "He could hear the baby crying and he backed up out of there,'' said his wife, AM, in a separate interview describing what her husband told her. "He didn't want to find his niece like that." (1) If he had not seen DR's body, then why did he think he'd see his niece "like that"? How did he get in? They didn't lock DR's place back up?

Another, was that BJM, called LE, after finding CR2 and GR. Then went on to find FR and HHG. However, LM says that BJM found FR & HHG, first, then went on to find CR2 and GR. Then BJM comes out and gets LM, and he went out there, and he said that JM went by DR's house, where "they", he and his son, again, Iirc, found them. (2) Note: it's in video at link. This was video right after the murders, 4/25/2016. Note, LM never says that anyone called JM though. JM was supposedly up at 2 a.m. w/ AM, texting, worked the late shift, but was up paying a car payment at 7 a.m.? With his son in tow? His son who is a paramedic. If LM and BJM went past DR's home, back to CR1's why not stop at DR's? I think they knew something was stirring. In the video, LM says that he won't say that DR was never afraid there.

CR2's trailer was said to be nothing but a "shell" by LM, too (Iirc). It was also stated that both CR2 and GR were drug to a back bedroom, and that CR2 was covered. It's been stated that DR was left lying right there in the where she could be partially seen from the doorway. Why wasn't she drug out of sight?

Did someone have some type of reason for covering CR2? Laying GR over him? They knew that BJM would likely find them and she had a long time connection, and affection, for the Rhodens? They had some sort of sympathy for her being that person? Did they try to shield her but she pulled the cover back? Possibly didn't know about the 2nd key? Is that why they locked the doors at FR's and HHG's too? "She is making decorations for their grave sites and plans to visit those soon. Manley said she helped her sister Dana raise her children and was helping Frankie and Hanna raise their new families." (2)

This came almost one month to the day, after CR2 bought DR that trailer. It's been rumored that the, what I call, office trailer, was not used for anything much but an office like structure. It's also been rumored that CR1 was staying with FR & HHG, and planned to move in with DR. GR may have been staying there too, which would explain why little R, didn't have a bedroom fixed up yet, and slept on the den couch.

What if they had gotten CR1 and GR to meet them at the old trailer, so as to better be able to handle two rather than three, or four, men? They may have taken care of KR first so he wouldn't show up at all, and I don't think that GR would be much difficulty b/c of the woman's statement, loosely quoted, "Hurting GR would be akin to kicking a dog." Maybe they just drug CR1 and GR to the back in case DR stopped after work, or a customer showed up, but why the cover over CR1? Speaks to familiarity.

I know that's as clear as mud. I've been thinking too much.

(1)https://www.10tv.com/article/pike-co-murder-victims-father-those-responsible-knew-family

(2) https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...unty-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/

BBM for emphasis

Good summary, I get what you're saying.

JMO, the theory that KR was killed first is possible. One of the killers' biggest priorities that night was to go from home to home and murder the victims without anyone raising the alarm. Killing KR first would have eliminated the threat of one of them calling him on a cell phone. He was either killed first or last.

As for BJM calling her dad or brother after finding CR1 & GR and FR&HG, that's how I interpret LM's quote in your (1) link

“She went in and found my grandson and his girlfriend dead [and] went down and found my brother-in-law and son-in-law and his cousin dead,” he said. “She came out and got me, then I went out there and my boy went to my daughter's house and they found them,” he said.

I took that to mean she came out of one of the homes and called LM. He "went out there", meaning he left for CR1's trailer after telling JM to go to DR's house. This interview with LM was not long after the murders and it was his first time talking to the news media, so he was still very shook up and not clear. BJM later said she couldn't recall exactly what happened and I pretty much believe her. The discovery of all the bodies was a traumatic, shocking event. The mind has a way of shutting down some in those situations. I doubt I would have remembered every minute detail.

JMO, Leonard's reaction seems logical to me. BLM had called 911, BCI & PCSD were on their way. Leonard would have gone to his son's home and told him to go to check on Dana while he went to CR1's to see what was going on. At this point, they didn't know if the killers were still in one of the homes or somewhere nearby. Assume that's why JM took his son along. You just react in those situations, you don't think a lot about what you're doing.

As I've noted before, by the time LM got to DR's home and looked in the door to see her dead, he probably heard the sirens of the first responders coming up the road. Having learned the situation from LM about the other murdered adults up the road, he probably made the split second decision to flag down the police and let them go inside first to clear the house. I might have done the same, fearing the killers might still be there.

Another important detail is that LM, BJM and DS all said that the killers had to be someone familiar with the homes, family and dogs. "Those dogs would eat you up", LM said. Those could easily have been seen as self-incriminating statements. If any of them were involved in the murders, it seems this would NOT have been details they would repeat often to the media in the following days and weeks. They would have kept quiet about the dogs to direct attention away from themselves. JMO

Yes, I agree, they pulled CR1 and GR into the back bedroom to buy time to finish the murder spree and get out of the area in case someone came by. Maybe they went out the open bedroom windows or the back doors.

And, yes, CR1 and GR were in the "office" trailer to keep watch because they were already on alert to some threat, based on their activities and statements in previous days and weeks. The "insider" of the murder group may have set up a meeting with CR1, too.

As for JM going to Dana's early that morning to make a payment on his car, I've only ever seen that mentioned in social media. I haven't seen that in any official statement or news story. That's one of those things we should run down and see if it's just a rumor. Stuff people post on Facebook shouldn't be taken as fact.

Another thing: According to Ohio law re grand juries, once a decision is rendered by the GJ, even if it doesn't result in filing of charges, a notation is supposed to be made in court records. If the GJ for JM's charges last summer has been deliberating, they should have filed something by now. As far as I've been able to see, there is no mention of it in the Pike Co court records. It's coming up on a year now. Same situation with a lot of other cases down there where charges were dropped and case referred to GJ. Have you found anything? Just curious.

 

[amauet1]

I don't think LM went in DR's trailer. LE arrived very quickly, they would have seen him. Recall from the timeline, JM flagged down one of the cars that was responding to BJM's 911 call. As BJM was standing in the doorway of DR's house, he could probably hear the sirens of the cars coming up UHR.

LM probably came up there right away and was there when LE was searching the home. Since everyone else they had found that morning had been shot in their sleep (I'm pretty sure BJM called JM and told him what she found at CR1 & FR's trailers), LM (and everyone else) probably assumed the same about CR2. It was early morning, 4 other people have been found dead inside their trailers, one dead person is found inside DR's, its logical. When LE kept coming out saying they couldn't find him, I'm sure LM was frustrated and told them to keep looking. Where else would he be at 7 am? No inside knowledge, just logic and reasoning.

No doubt emotions were running high that morning among the family members and LM was very upset. He and others long had a mistrust of some LE in the community and for good reason. There was a pretty long history of corruption in the Pike County SD. And any time you have bad police, it's usually the poorest folks in the community who get picked on the most. As LM said to the news media "they've been covering stuff up here for years". He's been determined to make sure they don't cover up the death of his daughter and grandkids, I can understand why he gets emotional about that.

If family members were involved, LE has had 2 years to find enough evidence to arrest them. They're poor people with no power or money, LE has no reason to protect them. If they could have arrested them, the would have. They're young people, not criminal geniuses, experienced at killing 8 people.

I question them because I read or heard (who knows after 2 years), that LE/BCI kept questioning the Manleys because they thought they were there earlier than was said. Way before the 911 calls were made.

 

[amauet1]

I just watched a report on how expensive it is to have indoor grows. The reporter said it is expensive to have them because of the lighting and the watering of the plants. The report has me thinking of how much CR1's electric bill could have run. If he was running a legitimate business on the property I suppose he could have deducted a portion of his utilities on his taxes. Then in one article I saw that LM was wanting access to DR's trailer to get her purse and checkbook. I think they were needing the money for the funerals. A shame the family hasn't been allowed to have such items, especially a family bible that was in HMR's possession. I wonder if any of that kind of stuff was tagged and bagged as evidence or if it is all still within those homes?

I think JM was arrested to shut LM up. LM was always pretty talkative and would seem to hint that he knew, but would never step beyond to say what he knew. LE wanted him to keep quiet and he refused until JM was arrested. Kind of a strong arm tactic if you ask me, but LE did it anyway because they could. It's horrible that we have seen nothing that looks like justice for these 8 young men and women. It's not right that this case is seemingly at a standstill. I don't know how LE could in good conscience sleep at night knowing a mass murderer is still on the loose!

Maybe they "hid" the usage somehow. Remember KR and BH worked for the Columbus Utility Co.

 

[amauet1]

Iirc, LM was irritated over not finding CR2 for so long, but, no one had called JM. BJM: "She said she can't remember many details after the discoveries, including how her older brother, JM, came to find their sister DR dead in her trailer, which is north of the other two trailers on Union Hill Road." (2)

If you think back, there's been some different stories. One was, that LM had stopped in at DR's to pay his car payment, saw her leg, when he opened the door, heard the baby , and retreated, again, telling his wife "He could hear the baby crying and he backed up out of there,'' said his wife, AM, in a separate interview describing what her husband told her. "He didn't want to find his niece like that." (1) If he had not seen DR's body, then why did he think he'd see his niece "like that"? How did he get in? They didn't lock DR's place back up?

Another, was that BJM, called LE, after finding CR2 and GR. Then went on to find FR and HHG. However, LM says that BJM found FR & HHG, first, then went on to find CR2 and GR. Then BJM comes out and gets LM, and he went out there, and he said that JM went by DR's house, where "they", he and his son, again, Iirc, found them. (2) Note: it's in video at link. This was video right after the murders, 4/25/2016. Note, LM never says that anyone called JM though. JM was supposedly up at 2 a.m. w/ AM, texting, worked the late shift, but was up paying a car payment at 7 a.m.? With his son in tow? His son who is a paramedic. If LM and BJM went past DR's home, back to CR1's why not stop at DR's? I think they knew something was stirring. In the video, LM says that he won't say that DR was never afraid there.

CR2's trailer was said to be nothing but a "shell" by LM, too (Iirc). It was also stated that both CR2 and GR were drug to a back bedroom, and that CR2 was covered. It's been stated that DR was left lying right there in the where she could be partially seen from the doorway. Why wasn't she drug out of sight?

Did someone have some type of reason for covering CR2? Laying GR over him? They knew that BJM would likely find them and she had a long time connection, and affection, for the Rhodens? They had some sort of sympathy for her being that person? Did they try to shield her but she pulled the cover back? Possibly didn't know about the 2nd key? Is that why they locked the doors at FR's and HHG's too? "She is making decorations for their grave sites and plans to visit those soon. Manley said she helped her sister Dana raise her children and was helping Frankie and Hanna raise their new families." (2)

This came almost one month to the day, after CR2 bought DR that trailer. It's been rumored that the, what I call, office trailer, was not used for anything much but an office like structure. It's also been rumored that CR1 was staying with FR & HHG, and planned to move in with DR. GR may have been staying there too, which would explain why little R, didn't have a bedroom fixed up yet, and slept on the den couch.

What if they had gotten CR1 and GR to meet them at the old trailer, so as to better be able to handle two rather than three, or four, men? They may have taken care of KR first so he wouldn't show up at all, and I don't think that GR would be much difficulty b/c of the woman's statement, loosely quoted, "Hurting GR would be akin to kicking a dog." Maybe they just drug CR1 and GR to the back in case DR stopped after work, or a customer showed up, but why the cover over CR1? Speaks to familiarity.

I know that's as clear as mud. I've been thinking too much.

(1)https://www.10tv.com/article/pike-co-murder-victims-father-those-responsible-knew-family

(2) https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...unty-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/

I agree with all of this. I didn't pay as much attention to reports that first came out, because silly me,I thought this investigation wouldn't take very long to be solved. I mean 8 people killed including young adults, I figured the community and LE/BCI would be so outraged as we were that they wouldn't stop until the people responisble where caught and put away. But going back and taking a second look has brought more info out for me.

 

[amauet1]

BBM for emphasis

Good summary, I get what you're saying.

JMO, the theory that KR was killed first is possible. One of the killers' biggest priorities that night was to go from home to home and murder the victims without anyone raising the alarm. Killing KR first would have eliminated the threat of one of them calling him on a cell phone. He was either killed first or last.

As for BJM calling her dad or brother after finding CR1 & GR and FR&HG, that's how I interpret LM's quote in your (1) link



I took that to mean she came out of one of the homes and called LM. He "went out there", meaning he left for CR1's trailer after telling JM to go to DR's house. This interview with LM was not long after the murders and it was his first time talking to the news media, so he was still very shook up and not clear. BJM later said she couldn't recall exactly what happened and I pretty much believe her. The discovery of all the bodies was a traumatic, shocking event. The mind has a way of shutting down some in those situations. I doubt I would have remembered every minute detail.

JMO, Leonard's reaction seems logical to me. BLM had called 911, BCI & PCSD were on their way. Leonard would have gone to his son's home and told him to go to check on Dana while he went to CR1's to see what was going on. At this point, they didn't know if the killers were still in one of the homes or somewhere nearby. Assume that's why JM took his son along. You just react in those situations, you don't think a lot about what you're doing.

As I've noted before, by the time LM got to DR's home and looked in the door to see her dead, he probably heard the sirens of the first responders coming up the road. Having learned the situation from LM about the other murdered adults up the road, he probably made the split second decision to flag down the police and let them go inside first to clear the house. I might have done the same, fearing the killers might still be there.

Another important detail is that LM, BJM and DS all said that the killers had to be someone familiar with the homes, family and dogs. "Those dogs would eat you up", LM said. Those could easily have been seen as self-incriminating statements. If any of them were involved in the murders, it seems this would NOT have been details they would repeat often to the media in the following days and weeks. They would have kept quiet about the dogs to direct attention away from themselves. JMO

Yes, I agree, they pulled CR1 and GR into the back bedroom to buy time to finish the murder spree and get out of the area in case someone came by. Maybe they went out the open bedroom windows or the back doors.

And, yes, CR1 and GR were in the "office" trailer to keep watch because they were already on alert to some threat, based on their activities and statements in previous days and weeks. The "insider" of the murder group may have set up a meeting with CR1, too.

As for JM going to Dana's early that morning to make a payment on his car, I've only ever seen that mentioned in social media. I haven't seen that in any official statement or news story. That's one of those things we should run down and see if it's just a rumor. Stuff people post on Facebook shouldn't be taken as fact.

Another thing: According to Ohio law re grand juries, once a decision is rendered by the GJ, even if it doesn't result in filing of charges, a notation is supposed to be made in court records. If the GJ for JM's charges last summer has been deliberating, they should have filed something by now. As far as I've been able to see, there is no mention of it in the Pike Co court records. It's coming up on a year now. Same situation with a lot of other cases down there where charges were dropped and case referred to GJ. Have you found anything? Just curious.

Totally agree with most of your theory, but I can't get over that the Manleys were all over the scenes before the 911 calls were made js. Oh and we can't forget the 2 friends with her (BJM) that morning. Now anyone can take that as they will, but the crime scenes were already compromised by all those people before officials got there.

 

[Satchie]

The speedy discovery of the small children stands out to me. Their lives were spared AND they were discovered very early in the morning, rather than, like KR, later in the afternoon. Imagine if those children had been locked in the trailers with the bodies until almost 2 pm. Was it just good luck BJM came by so early, setting off the chain of quickly removing the children?

ETA: Not to point the finger at her, perhaps someone knew she'd come by.

 

[Betty P]

Totally agree with most of your theory, but I can't get over that the Manleys were all over the scenes before the 911 calls were made js. Oh and we can't forget the 2 friends with her (BJM) that morning. Now anyone can take that as they will, but the crime scenes were already compromised by all those people before officials got there.

Only BJM was at a crime scene before LE was called. JMO, it seems natural she would have called her dad and he would have JM check on Dana. If he hadn't been there to flag down an officer, everyone would be saying "why didn't they get to the crime scenes right away?".

They were there quickly because they lived in very close proximity to the crime scenes and the victims were their family members.

I'd venture to say the Manleys have been investigated more than anyone else. They've been interviewed countless times, prints and DNA taken, multiple poly exams, grand jury testimony (where they must answer questions and cannot have an attorney present) etc. They've shown genuine grief and frustration many times in public. For rural, kind of backwoods folks, I don't think they could kill 8 relatives in 4 different homes and fool LE for 2 yrs after all that.

JMO, we need to take them off the list of suspects for now. If amateur sleuths keep trying to find ways to make the Manleys guilty, this case will never be solved.

 

[Betty P]

The speedy discovery of the small children stands out to me. Their lives were spared AND they were discovered very early in the morning, rather than, like KR, later in the afternoon. Imagine if those children had been locked in the trailers with the bodies until almost 2 pm. Was it just good luck BJM came by so early, setting off the chain of quickly removing the children?

ETA: Not to point the finger at her, perhaps someone knew she'd come by.

They were quickly discovered because BJM went to CR1's trailer that morning as she usually did. JMO, it was pretty brave of her to go inside FR's trailer and rescue his two children. As for Hanna R's infant daughter, LE rescued her.

Again, they were family who lived close to each other and who interacted with each other as part of their daily routine. If KR's daughter had been in the habit of going to her dad's place every morning, she would have discovered him quickly, too. I do find DS's delay in discovering KR to be a bit suspicious, though.

ETA: Who would have known BJM went to CR1's every morning to feed the roosters (assume she may have also been watering the plants in the grow op, too). Someone who had been observing their daily routines? LE said that from the very first day or so after the murders - whomever killed them had been watching them, asking questions, had inside information about their daily routines.

ETA2: Whomever did this had to have gotten very bloody, possibly injured themselves. They would have clothing covered in blood, it would have been transferred into their car interiors. They would have left some kind of evidence. They would have had gunpowder residue on their hands and clothing, etc. How did Manleys manage to destroy and clean up all that evidence without leaving any trace. LE searched their homes and cars with a fine tooth comb. They would have found evidence of a clean up. Manleys wouldn't have been pros, experienced at this.

Someone would have been banged up from fighting it out with CR1, yet no one appeared to have any injuries. LE would have been looking for that.

 

[rsd1200]

BBM for emphasis

Good summary, I get what you're saying.

JMO, the theory that KR was killed first is possible. One of the killers' biggest priorities that night was to go from home to home and murder the victims without anyone raising the alarm. Killing KR first would have eliminated the threat of one of them calling him on a cell phone. He was either killed first or last.

As for BJM calling her dad or brother after finding CR1 & GR and FR&HG, that's how I interpret LM's quote in your (1) link



I took that to mean she came out of one of the homes and called LM. He "went out there", meaning he left for CR1's trailer after telling JM to go to DR's house. This interview with LM was not long after the murders and it was his first time talking to the news media, so he was still very shook up and not clear. BJM later said she couldn't recall exactly what happened and I pretty much believe her. The discovery of all the bodies was a traumatic, shocking event. The mind has a way of shutting down some in those situations. I doubt I would have remembered every minute detail.

JMO, Leonard's reaction seems logical to me. BLM had called 911, BCI & PCSD were on their way. Leonard would have gone to his son's home and told him to go to check on Dana while he went to CR1's to see what was going on. At this point, they didn't know if the killers were still in one of the homes or somewhere nearby. Assume that's why JM took his son along. You just react in those situations, you don't think a lot about what you're doing.

As I've noted before, by the time LM got to DR's home and looked in the door to see her dead, he probably heard the sirens of the first responders coming up the road. Having learned the situation from LM about the other murdered adults up the road, he probably made the split second decision to flag down the police and let them go inside first to clear the house. I might have done the same, fearing the killers might still be there.

Another important detail is that LM, BJM and DS all said that the killers had to be someone familiar with the homes, family and dogs. "Those dogs would eat you up", LM said. Those could easily have been seen as self-incriminating statements. If any of them were involved in the murders, it seems this would NOT have been details they would repeat often to the media in the following days and weeks. They would have kept quiet about the dogs to direct attention away from themselves. JMO

Yes, I agree, they pulled CR1 and GR into the back bedroom to buy time to finish the murder spree and get out of the area in case someone came by. Maybe they went out the open bedroom windows or the back doors.

And, yes, CR1 and GR were in the "office" trailer to keep watch because they were already on alert to some threat, based on their activities and statements in previous days and weeks. The "insider" of the murder group may have set up a meeting with CR1, too.

As for JM going to Dana's early that morning to make a payment on his car, I've only ever seen that mentioned in social media. I haven't seen that in any official statement or news story. That's one of those things we should run down and see if it's just a rumor. Stuff people post on Facebook shouldn't be taken as fact.

Another thing: According to Ohio law re grand juries, once a decision is rendered by the GJ, even if it doesn't result in filing of charges, a notation is supposed to be made in court records. If the GJ for JM's charges last summer has been deliberating, they should have filed something by now. As far as I've been able to see, there is no mention of it in the Pike Co court records. It's coming up on a year now. Same situation with a lot of other cases down there where charges were dropped and case referred to GJ. Have you found anything? Just curious.

I have not found anything on the GJ. I'm not exactly saying that JM killed his family, nor did BJM, nor LM. I do think that JM and BJM, and others, know more than they are saying out loud, to the press. Maybe even LE. LE can't protect folks around here in the foothills, let alone further up, in more secluded areas. Where the Rs and Ms live, they'd just have to hope for the best, if LE didn't pick up the guy they finger, and get them, and everyone, or anyone involved, off the street, and convicted. I am wondering if the three who were just killed in Martin County, Ky., was some sort of payback for running their mouths. Just thinking that this could still be someone who knows the family and the dogs, but wasn't besties with them. Folks meet a lot of different people just growing weed, or, laundering money. If you're in illegal activities, like that, you will rub elbows with some folks who could be dangerous. I don't take much stock in the dogs though. If someone is good with dogs they can get around them. I'm a dog person and have never really had a problem. A lot of folks will tell you that their dogs will eat you up too, but the dogs just won't, when it comes down to brass tacks. They may be the size of a tank and be very noisy but that is about it. Now, KR's dog may not have liked the uniforms. UPS drivers, LEOs, and mailmen have trouble because of the uniforms many times. LEOs will flat shoot a dog if it gets too barky, too. The one thing about LM stating what he said on 4/25 is that it was fresh on his mind. I think she found FR and HHG first. I swear I hear a child, in the background, on the 911 call, and have, from the git go.

 

[rsd1200]

I question them because I read or heard (who knows after 2 years), that LE/BCI kept questioning the Manleys because they thought they were there earlier than was said. Way before the 911 calls were made.

I agree, I don't have what LE has, and I can't make the timeline add up either.

 

[Betty P]

I have not found anything on the GJ. I'm not exactly saying that JM killed his family, nor did BJM, nor LM. I do think that JM and BJM, and others, know more than they are saying out loud, to the press. Maybe even LE. LE can't protect folks around here in the foothills, let alone further up, in more secluded areas. Where the Rs and Ms live, they'd just have to hope for the best, if LE didn't pick up the guy they finger, and get them, and everyone, or anyone involved, off the street, and convicted. I am wondering if the three who were just killed in Martin County, Ky., was some sort of payback for running their mouths. Just thinking that this could still be someone who knows the family and the dogs, but wasn't besties with them. Folks meet a lot of different people just growing weed, or, laundering money. If you're in illegal activities, like that, you will rub elbows with some folks who could be dangerous. I don't take much stock in the dogs though. If someone is good with dogs they can get around them. I'm a dog person and have never really had a problem. A lot of folks will tell you that their dogs will eat you up too, but the dogs just won't, when it comes down to brass tacks. They may be the size of a tank and be very noisy but that is about it. Now, KR's dog may not have liked the uniforms. UPS drivers, LEOs, and mailmen have trouble because of the uniforms many times. LEOs will flat shoot a dog if it gets too barky, too. The one thing about LM stating what he said on 4/25 is that it was fresh on his mind. I think she found FR and HHG first. I swear I hear a child, in the background, on the 911 call, and have, from the git go.

I think the Manleys want the killers found even more than the rest of us do. As for BJM, I think she had already found bodies in both trailers when she called 911. It's a quibble that doesn't really matter much one way or the other. Why would she lie about that? What would she gain by lying about which trailer she went to first? What is the point? Chris Graves and Jody Barr are probably the outsiders who got closest to people and details about this case. Neither of them accused the Manleys or other close family members, nor did they seem to suspect them. JMO that counts for something.

I realize people get frustrated trying to solve this case with almost no information and zero knowledge of evidence. But it's too easy to circle back around to blaming the victims and their surviving family members when you run out of ideas.

JMO, the people who have behaved in the most suspicious manner thus far are LE, prosecutors, AG and a few of the locals.

I hadn't read the Hazlit article in quite a long time and just began re-reading it. Interesting quote from when they talked to Leonoard Manley:

He told us we’d be surprised by how much had been covered up in Pike County. Only one incident report had been filed on the case. It described the scene at Chris Rhoden Sr.’s trailer, and the bodies found there, but said nothing of the three other crime scenes. (When asked, a representative from the attorney general’s office said that the other crime scenes were so similar that filing additional reports seemed unnecessary.) The whole thing was “screwy,” Leonard said, emphasizing to me that cartel had nothing to do with this, but the organized nature of the crime pointed to someone smart. “If you get digging here in Pike County, you’d be surprised how much has been covered up,” he continued.

“Cops is really stupid,” he added, “When it comes down to common sense, they ain’t got none.”

This quote from Sheriff Reader:

“You got all these people(BCI) that are very well educated and they’re sitting there, telling the Sheriff of the county, ‘Hey, it’s our first time too … we’ve never handled anything like this!’”

This is accurate. Recall the BCI agent they put in charge of the investigation had come to work at BCi only in the previous few years from a job working campus security at Ohio State University. Reader probably has more experience. Why would inexperienced people in charge of such a major investigation? Because they're easy to manipulate?

 

[rsd1200]

I think the Manleys want the killers found even more than the rest of us do. As for BJM, I think she had already found bodies in both trailers when she called 911. It's a quibble that doesn't really matter much one way or the other. Why would she lie about that? What would she gain by lying about which trailer she went to first? What is the point? Chris Graves and Jody Barr are probably the outsiders who got closest to people and details about this case. Neither of them accused the Manleys or other close family members, nor did they seem to suspect them. JMO that counts for something.

I realize people get frustrated trying to solve this case with almost no information and zero knowledge of evidence. But it's too easy to circle back around to blaming the victims and their surviving family members when you run out of ideas.

JMO, the people who have behaved in the most suspicious manner thus far are LE, prosecutors, AG and a few of the locals.

I hadn't read the Hazlit article in quite a long time and just began re-reading it. Interesting quote from when they talked to Leonoard Manley:



This quote from Sheriff Reader:



This is accurate. Recall the BCI agent they put in charge of the investigation had come to work at BCi only in the previous few years from a job working campus security at Ohio State University. Reader probably has more experience. Why would inexperienced people in charge of such a major investigation? Because they're easy to manipulate?

I don't think they killed their family, but do they want themselves, or, anymore of their family deceased? If LE can't protect them, obviously four men, who were used to brawling, couldn't protect themselves, or their family. The discrepancies are just that. It's why LE focuses on them. If I told two completely different stories about how I found my deceased family, LE would be all over me. They don't much care for differing story lines. Not so much, I think, because they think they killed them, but b/c they think they know more. I think there may be several folks who know more. BJM ran in and grabbed those babies, up, and out of there. That's one Hell of a woman. I'd hope that I'd do that and I'd hope that my sibling would have gone in to get the crying infant at my other sibs home. How did he know that she was "like that"? How did he know that she and CR2 were deceased? He never even said a word about not wanting to see his nephew "like that". Was CR2 not supposed to be there that night? Is that why LE didn't really look for him at first? How hard is it to look in the child's room, in a closet, or behind a bed? The most obvious places a child would hide. That makes no sense either.

 

[amauet1]

Only BJM was at a crime scene before LE was called. JMO, it seems natural she would have called her dad and he would have JM check on Dana. If he hadn't been there to flag down an officer, everyone would be saying "why didn't they get to the crime scenes right away?".

They were there quickly because they lived in very close proximity to the crime scenes and the victims were their family members.

I'd venture to say the Manleys have been investigated more than anyone else. They've been interviewed countless times, prints and DNA taken, multiple poly exams, grand jury testimony (where they must answer questions and cannot have an attorney present) etc. They've shown genuine grief and frustration many times in public. For rural, kind of backwoods folks, I don't think they could kill 8 relatives in 4 different homes and fool LE for 2 yrs after all that.

JMO, we need to take them off the list of suspects for now. If amateur sleuths keep trying to find ways to make the Manleys guilty, this case will never be solved.

First Betty, I never implied that the Manleys killed their family. I feel some of them knew what happened and have hindered the investigation by lying about what they know. I have a problem with them living so close by, there just about everyday, telling media they didn't know anything about the mj grows, hardly knew or hung out with his son in law (LM). I just don't see a mother of a 15 year old girl and pregnant needing to be put on a school bus. BJM saying she helped raise DR's children and the children's children (FR). IMO, JM, LM. and BJM and maybe more Manley's and Rhoden's have a much poorer life now, than they did with the Rhoden's alive. The Manley's by their own talking have made themselves part of this. It seemed to me they were very much into the Rhoden's business both personal and finances. Maybe that was usual for them and accepted by the families, I don't know.

 

[amauet1]

Only BJM was at a crime scene before LE was called. JMO, it seems natural she would have called her dad and he would have JM check on Dana. If he hadn't been there to flag down an officer, everyone would be saying "why didn't they get to the crime scenes right away?".

They were there quickly because they lived in very close proximity to the crime scenes and the victims were their family members.

I'd venture to say the Manleys have been investigated more than anyone else. They've been interviewed countless times, prints and DNA taken, multiple poly exams, grand jury testimony (where they must answer questions and cannot have an attorney present) etc. They've shown genuine grief and frustration many times in public. For rural, kind of backwoods folks, I don't think they could kill 8 relatives in 4 different homes and fool LE for 2 yrs after all that.

JMO, we need to take them off the list of suspects for now. If amateur sleuths keep trying to find ways to make the Manleys guilty, this case will never be solved.

BJM and her 2 friends.

 

[Betty P]

BJM and her 2 friends.

Yes.

If you're on the "Manleys killed their family" bandwagon, how do you think they've managed to fool LE for 2 years? How does this woman, who is not of the highest intellect, manage to be a criminal mastermind capable of killing 8 people and stumping LE?

Are you saying she's that deceptively brilliant or PCSD, BCI and DeWine are just that incompetent they could be fooled by a woman who has difficulty speaking in full sentences?

Are the "Manleys killed their family" group saying that LE is protecting them? Why would they do that?

These are legitimate questions that people should answer if they're going to continue promoting this theory. Sorry, but I get a little frustrated when we make some progress in trying to organize information and do some sleuthing to learn more about this case and it gets derailed by the "Manleys did it" promoters. It's frustrating and really keeps us from making progress here.

Sorry, but Manleys are off the suspect list for me.

 

[amauet1]

I think the Manleys want the killers found even more than the rest of us do. As for BJM, I think she had already found bodies in both trailers when she called 911. It's a quibble that doesn't really matter much one way or the other. Why would she lie about that? What would she gain by lying about which trailer she went to first? What is the point? Chris Graves and Jody Barr are probably the outsiders who got closest to people and details about this case. Neither of them accused the Manleys or other close family members, nor did they seem to suspect them. JMO that counts for something.

I realize people get frustrated trying to solve this case with almost no information and zero knowledge of evidence. But it's too easy to circle back around to blaming the victims and their surviving family members when you run out of ideas.

JMO, the people who have behaved in the most suspicious manner thus far are LE, prosecutors, AG and a few of the locals.

I hadn't read the Hazlit article in quite a long time and just began re-reading it. Interesting quote from when they talked to Leonoard Manley:



This quote from Sheriff Reader:



This is accurate. Recall the BCI agent they put in charge of the investigation had come to work at BCi only in the previous few years from a job working campus security at Ohio State University. Reader probably has more experience. Why would inexperienced people in charge of such a major investigation? Because they're easy to manipulate?

Betty, I can't speak for anyone but me, but I'm not accusing people of something because I've ran out of idea's. Respectively, I am giving my opinions and thoughts, just like you are. I guess where the Manley's are concerned we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[amauet1]

I don't think they killed their family, but do they want themselves, or, anymore of their family deceased? If LE can't protect them, obviously four men, who were used to brawling, couldn't protect themselves, or their family. The discrepancies are just that. It's why LE focuses on them. If I told two completely different stories about how I found my deceased family, LE would be all over me. They don't much care for differing story lines. Not so much, I think, because they think they killed them, but b/c they think they know more. I think there may be several folks who know more. BJM ran in and grabbed those babies, up, and out of there. That's one Hell of a woman. I'd hope that I'd do that and I'd hope that my sibling would have gone in to get the crying infant at my other sibs home. How did he know that she was "like that"? How did he know that she and CR2 were deceased? He never even said a word about not wanting to see his nephew "like that". Was CR2 not supposed to be there that night? Is that why LE didn't really look for him at first? How hard is it to look in the child's room, in a closet, or behind a bed? The most obvious places a child would hide. That makes no sense either.

I think at first LE may have thought that since they couldn't find CRjr at first, that maybe he had killed everyone and was hiding. That was a rumor, I heard in the being. And it kinda made since, because they had the schools on lock down at first. Either that, or they thought "kids" were involved in the murders. JMO

 

[Betty P]

Betty, I can't speak for anyone but me, but I'm not accusing people of something because I've ran out of idea's. Respectively, I am giving my opinions and thoughts, just like you are. I guess where the Manley's are concerned we will just have to agree to disagree.

I understand where you're coming from. The only connection I'm seeing is JM and his wife possibly being set up by members of the JW family to take the blame for some kind of involvement.

Perhaps it makes more sense to explore the Wagner's activities. How were they possibly involved in any kind of illegal activity that resulted in the murders? Who were their connections? What were they involved in? What was up with JW's job as a driver? Is that connected?

Let's see if we can find some more clues and add them to the timeline, start trying to fill in blanks.