OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[Becky Starkey]

An absolute documented fact is when Jake gave interviews (plural & every reporter could not have head him wrong!)
JW always stated the event as he picked up Sophie a day earlier.

It is not until the 2017 interview that AW gave the same event only she changed the dates the exchange took place on s different date. AW sounds like she runs the show and everyone in the Wagner family kowtows to her. I think AW was the trouble maker in the custody despute because she wanted JW to have sole custody.

This is my opinion only. I have not came to this conclusion lightly. Please feel free to disagree. But :bee: kind.



Here it is everyone the revisionist namely AW changing the date SW was picked up. It's obvious she wants to distant the Wagners from ground zero CS.

• [FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]​:cow:[/FONT]

She's the one with the military experience too. The other W son's girlfriend did sign over her rights to her child. In the Alaska picture of the W family, the mother has that child on her lap. I've always had a feeling that a group of people that had in for the Rhodens may have gotten together to do this. A small group though.

 

[Betty P]

An absolute documented fact is when Jake gave interviews (plural & every reporter could not have head him wrong!)
JW always stated the event as he picked up Sophie a day earlier.

It is not until the 2017 interview that AW gave the same event only she changed the dates the exchange took place on s different date. AW sounds like she runs the show and everyone in the Wagner family kowtows to her. I think AW was the trouble maker in the custody despute because she wanted JW to have sole custody.

This is my opinion only. I have not came to this conclusion lightly. Please feel free to disagree. But :bee: kind.



Here it is everyone the revisionist namely AW changing the date SW was picked up. It's obvious she wants to distant the Wagners from ground zero CS.

• [FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]​:cow:[/FONT]

JW's changing story and close relationship to the victims should have been enough for LE to make him submit to a poly exam. I wonder if they even brought him in for questioning back then?

Within hours of the murders, LE should have discovered JW's possible connection to the case. Within hours, they should have been going to a judge for a search warrant to check him and his clothing for gunshot residue, etc. They probably could have gotten a search warrant for his home/farm. I wonder if they did this or if they were too focused elsewhere?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Keep looking. There were some LLC's registered in the grandmother's name, IIRC. Health care related. I'll see if I can find my old post on it from back at the time the farms were raided. You may also want to cross check the people who entered land contract with Wagners on their properties.

ETA: Here we go:


Crystal Springs Home Inc

799 Mount Etna Road
Piketon, OH 45661
Phone: Show Number

Crystal Springs Home Inc is a privately held company in Piketon, OH and is a Unknown business.

Categorized under Mental Retardation Hospitals. Our records show it was established in 1986 and incorporated in Ohio. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of less than $500,000 and employs a staff of approximately 1 to 4.

https://www.manta.com/c/mmnj2hx/crystal-springs-home-inc

When you search the address under Google Maps, it brings up a photo of a room with church pews.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/C...efd741ef7b0c67!8m2!3d38.9932905!4d-83.1095214


Zoom in on Google Maps and it looks like a church, not a health care services facility.

ETA2: I wonder if this church/health care services business is related in any way to the churches the younger W's are a member?

Didn’t LM make a statement about LE searching a nursing home on Wagner farms and pulling a blanket off of someone in bed? I can’t be imagining this. Now I’m on the hunt for the interview.

 

[Betty P]

Didn’t LM make a statement about LE searching a nursing home on Wagner farms and pulling a blanket off of someone in bed? I can’t be imagining this. Now I’m on the hunt for the interview.

Yes, I recall that, though I wasn't sure if he mentioned Wagner's farms. I thought of it at the time, but it really looks like just a church, unless they've changed it since the last photos were taken. Why would someone have a health care business actually operating as a church? Maybe the type of business was changed and records weren't updated.

The elder W's real estate holdings are fairly extensive and the people and businesses linked to that real estate may or may not be important. IIRC, some of the drug raids done in the days after the raids on the W farms were on or near W family property. Land contracts.

Also refer back to my posts last summer (during the raids) about the past history of people involved in the horse breeding business and drugs dealing. There can be some shifty people involved in that world.

This probably wasn't involved here, but it fits in the category of "things that make you go hmmm...." The horse breeding community is unique and everyone gets to know everyone else, if they're raising and trading horses. The W family has been involved in this community for decades, a long, long time.


How a Mexican drug cartel hid millions behind a horse farm

https://www.cnbc.com/2014/06/12/how-a-mexican-drug-cartel-hid-millions-behind-a-horse-farm.html

https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Smuggler-horse-racing-is-part-of-drug-6667880.php

Then, there's the old "Bluegrass Conspiracy" drug dealing scandal in Kentucky years ago when the young scions of the horse breeding industry in Kentucky turned to trafficking drugs when the horse breeding business slowed down in the 70's. People in the horse breeding world in the US haven't always been the most honest and upright.

http://www.kentucky.com/entertainment/books/article44048643.html

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Yes, I recall that, though I wasn't sure if he mentioned Wagner's farms. I thought of it at the time, but it really looks like just a church, unless they've changed it since the last photos were taken. Why would someone have a health care business actually operating as a church? Maybe the type of business was changed and records weren't updated.

The elder W's real estate holdings are fairly extensive and the people and businesses linked to that real estate may or may not be important. IIRC, some of the drug raids done in the days after the raids on the W farms were on or near W family property. Land contracts.

Aren’t Church’s exempt from taxes?

Churches and religious organizations are generally exempt from income tax and receive other favorable treatment under the tax law; however, certain income of a church or religious organization may be subject to tax, such as income from an unrelated business.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

 

[MizStery]

To all my Websleuths buddies! :bud:Hallelujah I think we're getting somewhere on the timeline leading up to the evil slaughter of the Rhoden's.

Justice :judge: I'm praying we're closing in on indictments.
:cow:

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Just putting this here while it’s fresh on my brain. The reporter says “because they(investigators) told him(LM) that they (investigators) found a text message that James had sent Wagner at 2am”

There’s been a lot of speculation that LM learned of the text from JM. It appears that LM learned of the text from LE, not JM.

https://youtu.be/CWy3QSE9K_g

 

[Betty P]

Aren’t Church’s exempt from taxes?



https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

Yes, they are. I wonder if some people use them as a means for laundering money? Who knows? It's worth looking into. It could be just a business change the W's made at that property, but never updated. Somewhere there's a listing with one of the grandparents names and a church.

 

[Betty P]

Just putting this here while it’s fresh on my brain. The reporter says “because they(investigators) told him(LM) that they (investigators) found a text message that James had sent Wagner at 2am”

There’s been a lot of speculation that LM learned of the text from JM. It appears that LM learned of the text from LE, not JM.

https://youtu.be/CWy3QSE9K_g

Didn't LM also say later that the text was sent around 8:30 pm, but not received until 2 am, indicating it was possible JM sent the text, but JW had his phone turned off and didn't retrieve the message until then. Either way, LE would have all this information. If they thought JM was the killer, he would have been arrested and tried by now. Guy doesn't have the resources or skill to avoid prosecution.

 

[Betty P]

To all my Websleuths buddies! :bud:Hallelujah I think we're getting somewhere on the timeline leading up to the evil slaughter of the Rhoden's.

Justice :judge: I'm praying we're closing in on indictments.
:cow:

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but we've discussed this discrepancy before. Please do a favor for all and update the information with links into the timeline in the Media & Timelines thread so everyone remembers this information. It's a long and complicated case, so it helps to keep refreshing our memories so we don't repeat ourselves anymore than necessary. TIA. Reminder: Always include links in timelines.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Didn't LM also say later that the text was sent around 8:30 pm, but not received until 2 am, indicating it was possible JM sent the text, but JW had his phone turned off and didn't retrieve the message until then. Either way, LE would have all this information. If they thought JM was the killer, he would have been arrested and tried by now. Guy doesn't have the resources or skill to avoid prosecution.

He did say that. Unfortunately for his statement, that’s not how texts work-lol. UNLESS, there’s no cell tower service. I could pick his statement apart to the fullest, but it will only make my head hurt.

All I know is, where there’s smoke, there’s fire. I’ve seen a lot of smoke over the past two years from a lot of locations.

 

[Betty P]

He did say that. Unfortunately for his statement, that’s not how texts work-lol. UNLESS, there’s no cell tower service. I could pick his statement apart to the fullest, but it will only make my head hurt.

All I know is, where there’s smoke, there’s fire. I’ve seen a lot of smoke over the past two years from a lot of locations.

Yes, but JM is low-hanging fruit. A poor working class guy without any connections to help him evade arrest and prosecution. Same with BJM. If they were the killers, they would have been arrested and tried by now. I wonder if LE's early focus on them prevented them from looking more closely at JW in the early days after the murders. By the time they realized they couldn't make a case against the M family, it was too late to do much investigating of the W family. They had enough time to get rid of evidence, concoct alibis, etc.


JMO, the LE jurisdiction issues (Pike, Adams, Scioto counties) played a role in how this case may have been mishandled early on. Yes, BCI was involved, but they may not have been aware of the problems.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Yes, I recall that, though I wasn't sure if he mentioned Wagner's farms. I thought of it at the time, but it really looks like just a church, unless they've changed it since the last photos were taken. Why would someone have a health care business actually operating as a church? Maybe the type of business was changed and records weren't updated.

The elder W's real estate holdings are fairly extensive and the people and businesses linked to that real estate may or may not be important. IIRC, some of the drug raids done in the days after the raids on the W farms were on or near W family property. Land contracts.

Also refer back to my posts last summer (during the raids) about the past history of people involved in the horse breeding business and drugs dealing. There can be some shifty people involved in that world.

This probably wasn't involved here, but it fits in the category of "things that make you go hmmm...." The horse breeding community is unique and everyone gets to know everyone else, if they're raising and trading horses. The W family has been involved in this community for decades, a long, long time.


How a Mexican drug cartel hid millions behind a horse farm

https://www.cnbc.com/2014/06/12/how-a-mexican-drug-cartel-hid-millions-behind-a-horse-farm.html

https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Smuggler-horse-racing-is-part-of-drug-6667880.php

Then, there's the old "Bluegrass Conspiracy" drug dealing scandal in Kentucky years ago when the young scions of the horse breeding industry in Kentucky turned to trafficking drugs when the horse breeding business slowed down in the 70's. People in the horse breeding world in the US haven't always been the most honest and upright.

http://www.kentucky.com/entertainment/books/article44048643.html

http://m.fox19.com/story/35453014/r...of-arrests-investigators-couldnt-catch-a-cold

It’s in this video he speaks of a blanket being pulled off a man at bedpast(?). Starts at the 2:35 mark.

 

[MizStery]

Didn't LM also say later that the text was sent around 8:30 pm, but not received until 2 am, indicating it was possible JM sent the text, but JW had his phone turned off and didn't retrieve the message until then. Either way, LE would have all this information. If they thought JM was the killer, he would have been arrested and tried by now. Guy doesn't have the resources or skill to avoid prosecution.

If this was conducted like a military strike (& I bet there was a trial run to work out all the minute details)then JW could have taken the battery out of his phone and strategically waited to put it back in at 2am.

I do not have a link handy so just say this is me theorizing. I'm sure that I read AW sold ammunition online.LE mentioned part of the search during the raid on their property was for ammunition casings.

Gotcha on the Timeline Betty!
:cow:

 

[Betty P]

http://m.fox19.com/story/35453014/r...of-arrests-investigators-couldnt-catch-a-cold

It’s in this video he speaks of a blanket being pulled off a man at bedpast(?). Starts at the 2:35 mark.

Yes, LM knows of or has heard about something. I wonder if DR said something to him about something that happened in the nursing home where she worked? I wonder if she did any work for the business owned by the W family? Wasn't it said that she also did nursing work in people's homes? I wonder if anyone in the W family was a partner in other nursing businesses, like a nursing home?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Yes, but JM is low-hanging fruit. A poor working class guy without any connections to help him evade arrest and prosecution. Same with BJM. If they were the killers, they would have been arrested and tried by now. I wonder if LE's early focus on them prevented them from looking more closely at JW in the early days after the murders. JMO, the LE jurisdiction issues (Pike, Adams, Scioto counties) played a role in how this case may have been mishandled early on. Yes, BCI was involved, but they may not have been aware of the problems.

I agree. I don’t think those two are involved. I should have been more specific. I believe LM is also a victim and he’s now the victim of having certain people pull the wool over his eyes. He’s just a broken hearted man and it’s sad.

In regards to the tri county area, I hope that didn’t play a role. There should’ve been zero reason that Pike Co didn’t reach out to the neighboring counties, considering the close proximity of the three. I won’t be surprised to learn that you’re correct though and that’s why W’s weren’t looked at sooner.

 

[molly1255]

I am thinking this would perfectly explain why the W's weren't looked at much sooner.

 

[Betty P]

A little light reading for the weekend: DEA 2017 Threat Assessment

https://www.dea.gov/docs/DIR-040-17_2017-NDTA.pdf

 

[Betty P]

http://m.fox19.com/story/35453014/r...of-arrests-investigators-couldnt-catch-a-cold

It’s in this video he speaks of a blanket being pulled off a man at bedpast(?). Starts at the 2:35 mark.

Wonder what this is?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Crystal-Springs-Home/198118713864624

Some of these photos are from January of this year

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...sAF1QipOXJiiuKJjhCZMbdL3s_dIMnlXBJBpQLxJtpAJ-

More information from Guide Star, it must be listed as a non-profit organization.

https://www.guidestar.org/profile/31-1173920

Perhaps the caregiving facility is in the house located down the drive from the church-looking building.

Here's another view from Google Maps

https://www.google.com/maps/place/C...efd741ef7b0c67!8m2!3d38.9932905!4d-83.1095214

As you go due south from the 799 Mt Etna Rd address, the big group of buildings you see with red roofs is the elder Wagner's Flying W Farm. The own pretty much all the property around here, along with many other large parcels in the general area. Another business that shows up on the W property is Survival Foods. I can't find any listing for that one. It sounds like one of those places where people pay to store or buy emergency food - you know, end times survivalists. Were the younger W's involved in that? Is there some kind of underground food storage facility there?

Notice also how close this location is to KR's camper on Left Fork Rd.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Wonder what this is?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Crystal-Springs-Home/198118713864624

Some of these photos are from January of this year

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...sAF1QipOXJiiuKJjhCZMbdL3s_dIMnlXBJBpQLxJtpAJ-

More information from Guide Star, it must be listed as a non-profit organization.

https://www.guidestar.org/profile/31-1173920

Perhaps the caregiving facility is in the house located down the drive from the church-looking building.

I’ve never seen something so bizarre in my life. It’s all just WEIRD. The poster of those pics lists themselves as a “gardener” on fb and also lists a military career.