OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

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  • #1,021
I agree. I think that it was well planned, and well thought through, and that night was chosen (full moon, that night), and someone had knowledge of when folks were in their homes, but that it was done relatively quickly. I've wondered if they killed KR first, and the cash strewn about, was where they emptied his pockets,looking for his keys.

It's almost a full moon tonight, it was full on 4/21/2016 too, which could have been a help.
I’ve always leaned towards the cash being from his pockets, after a family member stated he was known to keep pocket change cash in his pockets. I don’t remember if that has ever been quoted in an article, so until I can link it, it’s JMO.

And the full moon has always creeped me out. Full moons ALWAYS bring out the worst in people across the board. Just from working in healthcare, the things seen on an average day in the ER compared to situations that come in on full moons is insane.
 
  • #1,022
I agree, Mitten. I don't think it involved an incredibly detailed plan, or any kind of genius to pull this off. I think it took someone who was beyond angry with the R's and someone who knew the properties very well. I also think the dogs knew at least one of the killers. I think LE has circumstantial evidence, but they lack physical evidence and that is why there have been no arrests. I also think the explanation of why KR was killed may have been to get keys, or that he knew something that would identify the killers. Perhaps both.

I am of the opinion that LE's big show of searching the W properties and calling them out last year was done with the intention of trying to get one or more of them to crack and start talking. It didn't work and ever since then, there has been no news other than LE remains focused on the W's.

Junk said something to the effect that he could explain everything in short order. My interpretation of this is that the explanation for all of this is really quite simple. I think the responsible parties are hunters who are experienced in stalking and killing their prey. I also think the killers justified the murders as being part of a righteous cause.

I'm still with LE on this one.
 
  • #1,023
Back in the 70's when I was in my teens and early 20's my BIL raced what was called stock cars then. I am not sure what they are called now but they were cars they built and raced on dirt tracks. His dad and uncle had also raced them in the 40's and 50's through early 60's.

I remember my older sister dragging me to those things every weekend. For the life of me I could not see what the attraction was but she was ready to go every time, maybe just to be there if her husband was injured. IDK but I do remember the mad rush to get everything ready to go, getting the car ready and loaded in time. Then there was the long tedious trip to the race track sometimes through thunderstorms and tornadoes. Too many times we sat in the stands in the hot sun, with the noise from the cars and fans, the constant nausea from the fumes of gasoline and exhausts with no mufflers. I also remember the fights that broke out among the drivers and their pit crews with fists, clubs and even guns being pulled over some imagined or real bump out on the track. At times there were almost riots in the pits and stands because one driver hit another and knocked them out of the race.

I absolutely hated those races, but couldn't bring myself to hurt her feelings by telling her how stupid I thought they were.

It all ended for me one night when a driver was running across the track before a race started and a car that was stuck in the mud suddenly broke loose and hit the driver, killing him. Sitting in the stands looking down on a man with his legs cut off drawing his last breath was it for me. I pleaded homework or housework and stayed home and babysat the small children after that.

The point is I can see it being about derby races. My sister's entire circle of friends consisted of other drivers and their wives. When a fight would break out in the pits it was often one group of friends against another group. Sometimes it would be 20 guys against another group of 20 or 30. Feuds were born from nothing more than one driver cutting off another one in the race. Something akin to road rage now which we all know can lead to someone killing another driver. And those feuds lasted years sometimes.

So yes if the R's were as deeply involved as they are said to be, then I am sure they have been in more than a few of those race track fights and feuds.

One other thing to remember is that the W's were also involved in derby racing. Compounded with the custody dispute it is entirely possible an extreme hatred was born that led to the murder of an entire family.

JMO

Thanks for your insight Raisin. There is an element of danger in all of the motor sports. Motorcycle drags are my thing (As a spectator). At one meet, a motor blew out, killing the rider instantly. My friend drives in stock car, like your family did, that's what's most popular around here, and there are some pretty epic crashes at the track. We don't really get into round track racing though. We go to the derbies on occasion, but they aren't the BIG $$$ derbies.

I can see tempers flying, and, as we know, it is a familial thing. All of the Rs that were murdered, as well as HHG, were deeply into derby. The fight that erupted at the Gs was over derby. The guy had to superglue his teeth back together. The Rs actually went to that man's home, whipped up on his boy, and punched the father too. FR was given probation over that. If anyone were to get murdered, I would think it would be in some type of situation like that. Tempers flying, someone gets jumped, someone else maybe pulls a gun. Things go really bad.

I have not seen though that the Ws were into derbies. Did JW have his own car, or did he tag along with the Rs?
 
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  • #1,024
I’ve always leaned towards the cash being from his pockets, after a family member stated he was known to keep pocket change cash in his pockets. I don’t remember if that has ever been quoted in an article, so until I can link it, it’s JMO.

And the full moon has always creeped me out. Full moons ALWAYS bring out the worst in people across the board. Just from working in healthcare, the things seen on an average day in the ER compared to situations that come in on full moons is insane.

I think we read the same thing, but I've never seen it in MSM, either. I love full moons, but, my friend is an ER nurse, and my daughter works in a psych ward, and they both say the same it gets a bit more hectic when the moon is at its' fullest. We went out walking in the moonlight last night, and we didn't even need a flashlight.
 
  • #1,025
I agree. I’m also in belief that Jm was involved in some aspect . Lm,s statement on the news “ if you can live with it so can I “ was directed via news to the w,s letting them know that he was onboard with keeping their mouths shut . Thus protecting his son from a potential death sentence .
Lm was/is stuck between a rock and a hard place . Jm most likely confided in dad in what transpired . Lm doesn’t want to loose a son after just loosing his daughter and agrees to let the whole thing pass .

Lm,s odd statements never sat right with me . This scenario makes sense , and is my opinion on what transpired .

Jw was not the master mind , but believe he was heavily involved . Child custody , ego , and another unknown motive would be my guess .

I dont believe ive crossed any boundaries or rules , but if I have please let me know or delete post . Ty
 
  • #1,026
I enjoy full moons too. I’m a true lover of the moon all the time honestly. I should have clarified-I don’t get freaked out by full moons in general. The fact of these murders happening on a full moon is what gave me chills. IMO, I don’t believe the crime was planned around a full moon-that’s just how it happened and it conveniently provided better night time lighting.

Props to your daughter for working in a psych unit-that has to be draining. And sad.
 
  • #1,027
This is him. LW. He says he's the fall guy. I don't know. I'd heard another fella killed them, but, this guy, from what I gather, emailed his gf from prison, stating he was there and couldn't save them. (I think that was in my other link)

UPDATE: Man charged in connection with triple murder in Martin County, Ky.
This is interesting. Thanks for pointing out there’s a thread on this case, I just found it today. S/N, I feel like the Newsomes should have a thread.
 
  • #1,028
I enjoy full moons too. I’m a true lover of the moon all the time honestly. I should have clarified-I don’t get freaked out by full moons in general. The fact of these murders happening on a full moon is what gave me chills. IMO, I don’t believe the crime was planned around a full moon-that’s just how it happened and it conveniently provided better night time lighting.

Props to your daughter for working in a psych unit-that has to be draining. And sad.

Moon lover here too. All phases, but a beautiful full moon is calming to me. I've gone back and forth on whether they planned for the full moon, to give them some extra light.

I've also wondered, why, early on a Friday a.m.? Is it because most folks would not be missed early that next morning, allowing them to have more time? BJM had keys though... and found the dogs sitting on the porch, to be odd. So, she investigated. Fly in the ointment.
 
  • #1,029
Thanks for your insight Raisin. There is an element of danger in all of the motor sports. Motorcycle drags are my thing (As a spectator). At one meet, a motor blew out, killing the rider instantly. My friend drives in stock car, like your family did, that's what's most popular around here, and there are some pretty epic crashes at the track. We don't really get into round track racing though. We go to the derbies on occasion, but they aren't the BIG $$$ derbies.

I can see tempers flying, and, as we know, it is a familial thing. All of the Rs that were murdered, as well as HHG, were deeply into derby. The fight that erupted at the Gs was over derby. The guy had to superglue his teeth back together. The Rs actually went to that man's home, whipped up on his boy, and punched the father too. FR was given probation over that. If anyone were to get murdered, I would think it would be in some type of situation like that. Tempers flying, someone gets jumped, someone else maybe pulls a gun. Things go really bad.

I have not seen though that the Ws were into derbies. Did JW have his own car, or did he tag along with the Rs?


I am not sure but I do remember one of the articles saying that JW was a derby fan also. I am thinking it was the one about JM but I am not sure.
 
  • #1,030
I did a little experiment last night. The lights were out last night, not an uncommon thing here, so common, that we keep lanterns set out within easy access, but, last night, I decided to do the experiment. I left the lanterns off, in the house, and didn't use any artificial light, outdoors, so when we came back in, my eyes would be adjusted to the dark, and I'd be in a dark home. I've been here for YEARS, and I still made some noise getting around (which, of course, was amplified because the electric was off).

My dogs, who obviously know me, and I've had since pups, heard me opening the door, went plumb off, and, ran barking like maniacs, down the hall, only to find it was me. They stopped, and sheepishly wagged their tails, like, Oh, it's just you, sorry, we were sure it was a serial killer.

At least one of the assailants was probably somewhat familiar with the homes, even then, they'd need a pen light, or, quite possibly, a firearm with a tactical light, then they just spanned out, hit the room lights, and killed them before most had time to come fully awake. They'd have chanced hitting those babies otherwise, I would think. I've always thought that there were two going into each site, and a driver. I think the driver was probably in a truck, it's easy in, easy out, of a truck bed, lie down in the bed and no one sees you, and the wash down would be much simpler than car upholstery. The dogs, may have done like mine, barked momentarily, then recognized someone as familiar to the home, or, they didn't even have time to recognize them. The two dogs, at CR1's, were put outside not because they were a threat, but because they were in the way.
 
  • #1,031
Moon lover here too. All phases, but a beautiful full moon is calming to me. I've gone back and forth on whether they planned for the full moon, to give them some extra light.

I've also wondered, why, early on a Friday a.m.? Is it because most folks would not be missed early that next morning, allowing them to have more time? BJM had keys though... and found the dogs sitting on the porch, to be odd. So, she investigated. Fly in the ointment.
IMO, because SW was to be returned to HMR’s custody on Friday morning at 9 am. JMHO. I think it’s a strong possibility that these murders had to be carried out after the birth of K and before S was back home with HMR.

Has it ever been confirmed or denied anywhere if JW showed up to UHR to bring S home and came upon LE and the scenes? Or did he find out extremely quick between 8ish in the morning (when LE arrived) and 8;40/8:45 when he would’ve had to leave to take S home, that the R’s had been murdered? I’m not sure who would’ve called JW that early in the morning and that early after discovery. Or who would’ve known he was supposed to be bringing S home and to call him and tell him what happened? Everyone who had direct knowledge of the custody schedule with S, was dead or didn’t know the family was murdered yet (KR2 for example). JMO.
 
  • #1,032
IMO, because SW was to be returned to HMR’s custody on Friday morning at 9 am. JMHO. I think it’s a strong possibility that these murders had to be carried out after the birth of K and before S was back home with HMR.

Has it ever been confirmed or denied anywhere if JW showed up to UHR to bring S home and came upon LE and the scenes? Or did he find out extremely quick between 8ish in the morning (when LE arrived) and 8;40/8:45 when he would’ve had to leave to take S home, that the R’s had been murdered? I’m not sure who would’ve called JW that early in the morning and that early after discovery. Or who would’ve known he was supposed to be bringing S home and to call him and tell him what happened? Everyone who had direct knowledge of the custody schedule with S, was dead or didn’t know the family was murdered yet (KR2 for example). JMO.

KR2 knew that CR1 was deceased relatively early, and iirc, they all went to the church to wait. They couldn't get across the police line. She may have called JW.

One neighbor told about all of the sirens coming, one after one, and her father walked up the road, came back, and told his daughter, that all of them had been murdered, and then they both broke down. Once the neighbors knew, it's like it is here, I'm sure, it spread like wildfire around the area. (There was a stabbing the other night, and we already knew who it was, and who the familieswere, but I'd not seen names on t.v. )

A friend called HHG's mother, who had gotten in before they closed the road, and C, was called at 8:14 a.m. to come and get B, and was told that they were all deceased. BJM called LE at 7:49 so they knew pretty quick.
 
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  • #1,033
KR2 knew that CR1 was deceased relatively early, and iirc, they all went to the church to wait. They couldn't get across the police line. She may have called JW.

One neighbor told about all of the sirens coming, one after one, and her father walked up the road, came back, and told his daughter, that all of them had been murdered, and then they both broke down. Once the neighbors knew, it's like it is here, I'm sure, it spread like wildfire around the area. (There was a stabbing the other night, and we already knew who it was, and who the family's were, but I'd not seen names on t.v. )

A friend called HHG's mother, who had gotten in before they closed the road, and C, was called at 8:14 a.m. to come and get B, and was told that they were all deceased. BJM called LE at 7:49 so they knew pretty quick.
KR2 very well may have called him. I suppose that will all come out some day. Remember when we were talking about how he had said he missed the murder by hours? It was this article and Chris G never changed this one...

Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'
 
  • #1,034
I agree. I’m also in belief that Jm was involved in some aspect . Lm,s statement on the news “ if you can live with it so can I “ was directed via news to the w,s letting them know that he was onboard with keeping their mouths shut . Thus protecting his son from a potential death sentence .
Lm was/is stuck between a rock and a hard place . Jm most likely confided in dad in what transpired . Lm doesn’t want to loose a son after just loosing his daughter and agrees to let the whole thing pass .

Lm,s odd statements never sat right with me . This scenario makes sense , and is my opinion on what transpired .

Jw was not the master mind , but believe he was heavily involved . Child custody , ego , and another unknown motive would be my guess .

I dont believe ive crossed any boundaries or rules , but if I have please let me know or delete post . Ty
LM has stated in another video though when he was talking about BJM and I’m loosely quoting this, something along the lines of if it was family who did murdered Dana, he’d kill them himself jo matter who did it. Again, loosely quoting. I’ll find the video.
 
  • #1,035
KR2 very well may have called him. I suppose that will all come out some day. Remember when we were talking about how he had said he missed the murder by hours? It was this article and Chris G never changed this one...

Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'

Wasn't he bringing her home a day early too? I kinda took his comment to mean that, after the correction was made, in the paper, that he'd missed walking upon the scene, with S, because he was due to bring her home, in just a few hours. That's just how I took it, but, as you say, we won't know for sure until all of this blows open.
 
  • #1,036
Wasn't he bringing her home a day early too? I kinda took his comment to mean that, after the correction was made, in the paper, that he'd missed walking upon the scene, with S, because he was due to bring her home, in just a few hours. That's just how I took it, but, as you say, we won't know for sure until all of this blows open.
From the article I share above

“Hanna Rhoden and Wagner shared custody of Sophia, who was supposed to be with her mom that fateful Friday evening, he said. But Wagner picked her up a day earlier than normal: "I reckon we missed it by just hours." Published 7/29/16

Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'

Then the statement changed to:

Correction: An earlier version of this article incorrectly reported when Hanna Rhoden's daughter went to stay with her father, Jake Wagner. Rhoden dropped her daughter off on Friday, April 15, 2016. Edited on 10/25/16

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/91496698

IIRC, KR2 shares the 9am return time in one of the many articles BUT I have yet to track it down.

Anyways, there’s zero doubt in my mind that he changed his story and back tracked a week to saying he got S 4/15 and I’m sure he did get S on 4/15. I don’t know why the story changed but the first statement, he clearly stated “I reckon we missed it by hours” . IMO, no matter which way the story is spun of pick up/drop off, I reckon he missed the murder by hours. For some reason, his first statement puts him in direct contact with HMR in the hours before her and her family being murdered. The second, corrected statement has him not being around the R’s the night before the murders.

ETA-another part of his story, shared in an email June, 2017.

“Neighbors and some family members have said that Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden were involved in a contentious custody dispute related to Sophia at the time of the killings. Both Wagners denied that.

Rather, Angela Wagner said the couple wanted to legally formalize their agreed-upon shared custody arrangement. After they split up, each parent had custody of Sophia for one week, usually alternating each Saturday.

However the week before the killings, Rhoden dropped Sophia off on Friday, April 15, Wagner said. He was to return the towheaded toddler to her mom the following Friday, which was April 22 – the day the bodies were discovered.”

Why were properties searched in mass-killing probe? Owners say they don't know
 
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  • #1,037
I have not seen though that the Ws were into derbies. Did JW have his own car, or did he tag along with the Rs?
One other thing to remember is that the W's were also involved in derby racing. Compounded with the custody dispute it is entirely possible an extreme hatred was born that led to the murder of an entire family.

JMO

RSBM/BBM
Its this video, at the top of the article. Near the 4 minute mark, a reporter asked LM IF JM & JW were friends. LM replies-no, well I mean went to derbies and stuff together-paraphrasing.

Rhoden relative on lack of arrests: Investigators 'couldn't catch a cold'
 
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  • #1,038
RSBM/BBM
Its this video, at the top of the article. Near the 4 minute mark, a reporter asked LM IF JM & JW were friends. LM replies-no, well I mean went to derbies and stuff together-paraphrasing.

Rhoden relative on lack of arrests: Investigators 'couldn't catch a cold'

Oh, I'd not doubted that he likely went to derbies, being as he dated HMR. I'd not thought much about JM going though, but I'm not surprised. I just haven't ever seen where the W family, nor JW, were into it, like the Rs. I've never seen where JW had a car, himself, and participated, or if any of the other Ws had derby cars.
 
  • #1,039
Oh, I'd not doubted that he likely went to derbies, being as he dated HMR. I'd not thought much about JM going though, but I'm not surprised. I just haven't ever seen where the W family, nor JW, were into it, like the Rs. I've never seen where JW had a car, himself, and participated, or if any of the other Ws had derby cars.
Good point. I’ve never seen that either. I do wonder if JW was more specifically involved in derbies versus the whole W family.
 
  • #1,040
Good point. I’ve never seen that either. I do wonder if JW was more specifically involved in derbies versus the whole W family.

I've never seen anything, before the pages closed, on the W family's pages, re; derbies., but I'd not be surprised to find he may have taken to going to derbies, with JM, and the R's, and hanging out while they were fixing up derby cars, at the garage too.
 
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