UNSOLVED Oh - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #33

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  • #481
The human face has relatively small surface area, compared to other parts of the body. I'm no expert, but I assume people trained to kill aim for the area of the eyes or forehead. When quickly attacking someone with a gun, it seems the odds are high the victim will be shot in the eyes if you're aiming for the forehead.

JMO, this has always made me think the shooters had some sort of military, LE or similar formal training. The entire process of entering consecutive darkened homes late at night and shooting people in their beds has always indicated the killers had some kind of military or advanced LE training, similar to training in urban warfare.

Training teaches you to shoot at center mass to bring someone down. Not the limbs, not the head. They said these folks were shot, "execution style", execution style means they were shot, up close and personal, and under complete control of whoever was there that night. So, they were shot by cowards in the night. I do believe they had a reason for the eye shots, three are pretty odd, for it to be happenstance.
 
  • #482
What was done with the clothes and weapons?

At best if the killers were completely covered they had blood on themselves. And the weapons and silencers had to be disposed of. My guess is they had placed visqueen on the seats of their vehicles if they were local.

There were three of them that night. All dressed in dark clothes.

It all started hours before when just after dark they had slowly driven down union hill road. Just enough to attract the dogs attention, feeding them hamburger balls. Each one had enough to put them to sleep for hours but not to kill.

They were ready, the plan had been started, the waiting had begun.

After the three had done the unthinkable they met up to rid themselves of blood stained jeans, masks and t shirts. They had worn old shoes already destined for the trash. All of it went into black garbage bags, then tossed into the bed of a truck. The clothes would face the same fire as the master plan written on school notebook paper.

Once the decision had been made to kill, the killers met a few times to carefully plan. They had thought of everything and shied away from the tasks that had gotten other hills murderers caught. They all thought they’d either get caught right after the killings or standvto be free forever.

The law would be chasing motive for years. Never having enough to arrest anyone let alone the three that did the actual killing. The Rhodens and kin had a history of pudding people off. There would be to many to investigate. To many reasons to want them outta the way.


The plan went well, the dogs passed out and no kids harmed. That was the hard part, not shooting the babies. The three would go straight to hell for that, but not for killin uppity white trash who had crossed the line way to many times.Bad was bad and the Rhodens was the worst. They had done something bad enough they couldn’t come back from. And when the order came down the three who did the trigger pulling were glad for the money to do it. No harder than killing a deer they had agreed. But no babies and not the dogs.

The guns went into separate bags just before being hidden. When the bodies were found, probably later that day one of the killers would pick them up for the last time. Smashing them into bits and pieces with a heavy sledge or cut up with a special saw from the shed. The saw would go too. Tenant pieces of the killers guns were sprinkled into the cricks and rivers in the area. It would be the last thing before destroying the well thought out written list. That was burned just down the road from where the Rhoden family had been massacred. The guns would be destroyed and disposed of just after the bodies were discovered while the sheriff was most confused, and before the State boys were called in.

bbm

The problem I see is the dogs. CR1's dogs were kept inside at night. If they doped the dogs hours earlier CR1 would have noticed when his dogs wouldn't come inside.

Frankie's dogs were tied up behind his house. You couldn't get to them from a car. You would have to walk around to the back of his trailer.

DR's dogs were inside dogs also. We never heard if they were inside or outside when JM went to DR's trailer, but I am assuming they were inside since nothing was mentioned about her dogs being missing.

Brownie, KR's pitbull, was also an inside dog who was still inside when DS found KR the next day.

In all I think they said there were 26 dogs on all four properties. A lot of hamburger balls, assuming they could catch all 26 of them outside to give the hamburger to them.

That is why I believe it was someone who knew the dogs well. Like JW and BW, CR1's "best friend" until the recent falling out between them. It had to be someone really close to the R's to get past all those dogs.

JMO
 
  • #483
Training teaches you to shoot at center mass to bring someone down. Not the limbs, not the head. They said these folks were shot, "execution style", execution style means they were shot, up close and personal, and under complete control of whoever was there that night. So, they were shot by cowards in the night. I do believe they had a reason for the eye shots, three are pretty odd, for it to be happenstance.

Yes, I think when you're shooting execution style, you're trained to do so at close range, aiming at the head. They had to do it this way in order to take advantage of the element of surprise and avoid a victim escaping, fighting back or calling someone on the cell phone.

When in close proximity (killing people inside their bedroom, while they're asleep) shooting someone in the chest, stomach, etc. isn't a quick death. They can still move around, possibly grab a gun and shoot back. Because they chose to shoot these people in their sleep, in their bedrooms, they had to go for quick shots to the head or face.

Sneaking into homes and going to where the victims are sleeping to shoot them is a specific tactic these killers chose. It was probably the only option for killing that many people in 4 separate locations in the space of an hour or so.

I'm still going with lots of practice and training. Background in LE or military. I know that goes against the theories of local hillbilly justice, but LE agreed. They called them cold, calculating professional killings.
 
  • #484
The problem with the familial theory is that there's no past history of intra-familial violence or even major disagreements. There's no real motive. No history of big disagreements over money, land, etc. No arrests, no court battles. The Rhodens were and are a pretty tight knit family. They take care of each other. Even looking back today, there's nothing in their past that reveals any issue they would be fighting about.

OTOH, there was a very big ongoing battle over custody of HR's children. JMO, LE is looking in the right direction when they have the W's in their laser focus. It's pretty obvious who had major conflicts with them - court battle, war of words, etc.

I agree with you on the W's but we don't know JM's feelings. And AM is family to AW so that put a familial slant on JM helping them.

JMO
 
  • #485
What was done with the clothes and weapons?

At best if the killers were completely covered they had blood on themselves. And the weapons and silencers had to be disposed of. My guess is they had placed visqueen on the seats of their vehicles if they were local.

There were three of them that night. All dressed in dark clothes.

It all started hours before when just after dark they had slowly driven down union hill road. Just enough to attract the dogs attention, feeding them hamburger balls. Each one had enough to put them to sleep for hours but not to kill.

They were ready, the plan had been started, the waiting had begun.

After the three had done the unthinkable they met up to rid themselves of blood stained jeans, masks and t shirts. They had worn old shoes already destined for the trash. All of it went into black garbage bags, then tossed into the bed of a truck. The clothes would face the same fire as the master plan written on school notebook paper.

Once the decision had been made to kill, the killers met a few times to carefully plan. They had thought of everything an

The guns went into separate bags just before being hidden. When the bodies were found, probably later that day one of the killers would pick them up for the last time. Smashing them into bits and pieces with a heavy sledge or cut up with a special saw from the shed. The saw would go too. Tenant pieces of the killers guns were sprinkled into the cricks and rivers in the area. It would be the last thing before destroying the well thought out written list. That was burned just down the road from where the Rhoden family had been massacred. The guns would be destroyed and disposed of just after the bodies were discovered while the sheriff was most confused, and before the State bits were called in.
I agree . Further thinking imo , their were 4 people involved.
One separate from the other 3 to do kr .
All done within 1/2 hour . The timing of all was done impeccably, with possible hiccups at CR .S and Dr .
I think they needed atleast 3 to accomplish this under 1/2 hour . Grab cameras , do the killings on union hill .

When I think of this case I often think of these 2 theories .

1) when you illuminate the impossible what’s left no matter how improbable must be the truth .

2)
Occam's razor (also Ockham's razor or Ocham's razor; Latin: lex parsimoniae "law of parsimony") is the problem-solving principle that, when presented with competing hypothetical answers to a problem, one should select the answer that makes the fewest assumptions. The idea is attributed to William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347), who was an English Franciscan friar, scholastic philosopher, and theologian.

In science, Occam's razor is used as a heuristic guide in the development of theoretical models, rather than as a rigorous arbiter between candidate models.[1][2] In the scientific method, Occam's razor is not considered an irrefutable principle of logic or a scientific result; the preference for simplicity in the scientific method is based on the falsifiabilitycriterion. For each accepted explanation of a phenomenon, there may be an extremely large, perhaps even incomprehensible, number of possible and more complex alternatives. Since one can always burden failing explanations with ad hoc hypotheses to prevent them from being falsified, simpler theories are preferable to more complex ones because they are more testable.[3][4

Both of these are fallible, but will more then likely get you closer to the truth rather then seeking a hundreds of motives . IF , in fact your seeking to either solve or make some logical scence of these murders . Jmo
 
  • #486
Training teaches you to shoot at center mass to bring someone down. Not the limbs, not the head. They said these folks were shot, "execution style", execution style means they were shot, up close and personal, and under complete control of whoever was there that night. So, they were shot by cowards in the night. I do believe they had a reason for the eye shots, three are pretty odd, for it to be happenstance.

To me that eye thing could mean an eye for an eye. Or they saw something they weren't suppose to see and told about it.

JMO
 
  • #487
bbm

The problem I see is the dogs. CR1's dogs were kept inside at night. If they doped the dogs hours earlier CR1 would have noticed when his dogs wouldn't come inside.

Frankie's dogs were tied up behind his house. You couldn't get to them from a car. You would have to walk around to the back of his trailer.

DR's dogs were inside dogs also. We never heard if they were inside or outside when JM went to DR's trailer, but I am assuming they were inside since nothing was mentioned about her dogs being missing.

Brownie, KR's pitbull, was also an inside dog who was still inside when DS found KR the next day.

In all I think they said there were 26 dogs on all four properties. A lot of hamburger balls, assuming they could catch all 26 of them outside to give the hamburger to them.

That is why I believe it was someone who knew the dogs well. Like JW and BW, CR1's "best friend" until the recent falling out between them. It had to be someone really close to the R's to get past all those dogs.

JMO

Agree. The person who knew the dogs would have been in charge of handling them at the scene. They wouldn't have been able to do that while going into dark bedrooms to execute the victims. JMO, one person controlled the dogs where needed, the others did the shooting.
 
  • #488
I meant to say 1 for kr , and 3 for union hill . My apoligizes .
 
  • #489
Training teaches you to shoot at center mass to bring someone down. Not the limbs, not the head. They said these folks were shot, "execution style", execution style means they were shot, up close and personal, and under complete control of whoever was there that night. So, they were shot by cowards in the night. I do believe they had a reason for the eye shots, three are pretty odd, for it to be happenstance.

A shot through the eye makes it very certain it will enter the brain and likely cause fatal injuries. Bullets have been known to ricochet off a skull when hit at certain angles. I knew a person that was shot in the upper forehead with a .22 pistol and it did not penetrate the skull. It could also be symbolic.
 
  • #490
Yes, I think when you're shooting execution style, you're trained to do so at close range, aiming at the head. They had to do it this way in order to take advantage of the element of surprise and avoid a victim escaping, fighting back or calling someone on the cell phone.

When in close proximity (killing people inside their bedroom, while they're asleep) shooting someone in the chest, stomach, etc. isn't a quick death. They can still move around, possibly grab a gun and shoot back. Because they chose to shoot these people in their sleep, in their bedrooms, they had to go for quick shots to the head or face.

Sneaking into homes and going to where the victims are sleeping to shoot them is a specific tactic these killers chose. It was probably the only option for killing that many people in 4 separate locations in the space of an hour or so.

I'm still going with lots of practice and training. Background in LE or military. I know that goes against the theories of local hillbilly justice, but LE agreed. They called them cold, calculating professional killings.

BBM

I didn't see where they ever called them professional. I believe DeWine said well planned executions. But he never said the killers were professional. Him and Reader has often said the killers were local. As an aside don't forget AW's military experience.
 
  • #491
bbm

The problem I see is the dogs. CR1's dogs were kept inside at night. If they doped the dogs hours earlier CR1 would have noticed when his dogs wouldn't come inside.

Frankie's dogs were tied up behind his house. You couldn't get to them from a car. You would have to walk around to the back of his trailer.

DR's dogs were inside dogs also. We never heard if they were inside or outside when JM went to DR's trailer, but I am assuming they were inside since nothing was mentioned about her dogs being missing.

Brownie, KR's pitbull, was also an inside dog who was still inside when DS found KR the next day.

In all I think they said there were 26 dogs on all four properties. A lot of hamburger balls, assuming they could catch all 26 of them outside to give the hamburger to them.

That is why I believe it was someone who knew the dogs well. Like JW and BW, CR1's "best friend" until the recent falling out between them. It had to be someone really close to the R's to get past all those dogs.

JMO

Or possibly someone who was there often to do business of some kind or maybe party....
 
  • #492
Yes, I think when you're shooting execution style, you're trained to do so at close range, aiming at the head. They had to do it this way in order to take advantage of the element of surprise and avoid a victim escaping, fighting back or calling someone on the cell phone.

When in close proximity (killing people inside their bedroom, while they're asleep) shooting someone in the chest, stomach, etc. isn't a quick death. They can still move around, possibly grab a gun and shoot back. Because they chose to shoot these people in their sleep, in their bedrooms, they had to go for quick shots to the head or face.

Sneaking into homes and going to where the victims are sleeping to shoot them is a specific tactic these killers chose. It was probably the only option for killing that many people in 4 separate locations in the space of an hour or so.

I'm still going with lots of practice and training. Background in LE or military. I know that goes against the theories of local hillbilly justice, but LE agreed. They called them cold, calculating professional killings.

You don't have to be LE or military, to do what was done there. It was very sloppy, inside, imo. I'd not take the folks in this region so lightly. I may be wrong and it is an ex-LE, but, I'd not doubt at all that it wasn't some good ole boys, and maybe a gal, too. I've not heard the term "professional" used though, by DeWine nor Reader. Maybe I missed it though.

"This was an old-fashioned, calculated massacre of eight human beings," DeWine said.
Ohio AG: Executions were "old-fashioned, calculated massacre" - CBS News

Attorney General Mike DeWine said the murders were “well planned” and executed by more than one person. He said at least one person involved was familiar with the properties where the bodies were found.

WATCH: A year in Pike County, from murders to community grief to rebuilding
 
  • #493
BBM

I didn't see where they ever called them professional. I believe DeWine said well planned executions. But he never said the killers were professional. Him and Reader has often said the killers were local. As an aside don't forget AW's military experience.

You are correct. Those specific words weren't used. If semantics are an issue for some, how about we compromise on saying "experienced". It's a logical assumption that they had some sort of prior experience and, probably, training, JMO.

As for AW, I can't get on board that train yet. Her military experience, IIRC, was non-combat and 20+ years ago. I don't think the Air Force was training everyone in urban warfare back then. I could be wrong.

Why is it difficult for some to accept, especially considering the extent of heavy drug trafficking in the region and links between local bigwigs and other drug trafficking organizations in the region, that someone wouldn't have some experienced hit teams available for this kind of work? Sadly, hit teams are common in other areas, especially nearby urban areas, why would Pike County be an exception? What makes Pike County different?
 
  • #494
Or possibly someone who was there often to do business of some kind or maybe party....

That brings us back to someone really close to the R's.
 
  • #495
Or possibly someone who was there often to do business of some kind or maybe party....

BBM
This.

We've gone over the dogs a billion times, but even if the dogs knew them, they still might bark. My dogs have known some of my friends and relatives since puppyhood and bark to high Heaven when they pull in. My s/o tells me, that mine start barking, excitedly, before I even reach our drive, they are that attuned to my vehicle. Also, folks who know dogs, in the sense that they are good with them, usually don't have much problem with them. One last thing, sometimes you can have such barky dogs, that you forget to pay attention to them...
 
  • #496
You are correct. Those specific words weren't used. If semantics are an issue for some, how about we compromise on saying "experienced". It's a logical assumption that they had some sort of prior experience and, probably, training, JMO.

As for AW, I can't get on board that train yet. Her military experience, IIRC, was non-combat and 20+ years ago. I don't think the Air Force was training everyone in urban warfare back then. I could be wrong.

Why is it difficult for some to accept, especially considering the extent of heavy drug trafficking in the region and links between local bigwigs and other drug trafficking organizations in the region, that someone wouldn't have some experienced hit teams available for this kind of work? Sadly, hit teams are common in other areas, especially nearby urban areas, why would Pike County be an exception? What makes Pike County different?

Because there's enough Catfish Billy's out in those mountains who take care of their own work. I don't know why folks underestimate the danger of crossing locals in the drug trade.
 
  • #497
bbm

The problem I see is the dogs. CR1's dogs were kept inside at night. If they doped the dogs hours earlier CR1 would have noticed when his dogs wouldn't come inside.

Frankie's dogs were tied up behind his house. You couldn't get to them from a car. You would have to walk around to the back of his trailer.

DR's dogs were inside dogs also. We never heard if they were inside or outside when JM went to DR's trailer, but I am assuming they were inside since nothing was mentioned about her dogs being missing.

Brownie, KR's pitbull, was also an inside dog who was still inside when DS found KR the next day.

In all I think they said there were 26 dogs on all four properties. A lot of hamburger balls, assuming they could catch all 26 of them outside to give the hamburger to them.

That is why I believe it was someone who knew the dogs well. Like JW and BW, CR1's "best friend" until the recent falling out between them. It had to be someone really close to the R's to get past all those dogs.

JMO

The dogs and the babies are such an important piece to solving this.

Who would want the babies and dogs left unharmed?

The hamburger ball theory: this would take a lot of effort to plan and carry out successfully. More than 20 dogs in four different locations, and if only one dog wasn’t tranquilized it would bark and ruin their plan.

Surely the victims would have noticed if none of their dogs came to greet them when they came home because they were passed out from tranquilizers.
 
  • #498
You don't have to be LE or military, to do what was done there. It was very sloppy, imo. I'd not take the folks in this region so lightly. I may be wrong and it is an ex-LE, but, I'd not doubt at all that it wasn't some good ole boys, and maybe a gal, too. I've not heard the term "professional" used though, by DeWine nor Reader. Maybe I missed it though.

"This was an old-fashioned, calculated massacre of eight human beings," DeWine said.
Ohio AG: Executions were "old-fashioned, calculated massacre" - CBS News

Attorney General Mike DeWine said the murders were “well planned” and executed by more than one person. He said at least one person involved was familiar with the properties where the bodies were found.

WATCH: A year in Pike County, from murders to community grief to rebuilding

No, its not like military or LE experience is in the job description, in this case its possible.

Sometimes it's easy to get tunnel vision, where we get an idea of who the suspects are and try to make the evidence fit the persons we suspect. Part of being a good websleuth is second-guessing ourselves.

JMO, the past history of ongoing corruption in LE and the criminal justice system in the area WRT drug trafficking, officer involved shootings and associated crimes, the possibility is there.

Four Pike County deputies run afoul of the law in recent years

Four Pike County deputies run afoul of the law in recent years

Police, prosecutor refute rumors in Spike show

Police, prosecutor refute rumors in Spike show

I'm still keeping an open mind about the killers being all local hill folk who just did some target practice to get ready for the murders, but I'm still leaning towards people who had some experience and had done this before.

ETA: I would also say that anyone who is experienced in killing people in exchange for drugs and/or money is a professional. Since it seems likely someone stole something from CR1 and possibly KR that night, I consider them professional, especially if they've done this before.
 
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  • #499
You are correct. Those specific words weren't used. If semantics are an issue for some, how about we compromise on saying "experienced". It's a logical assumption that they had some sort of prior experience and, probably, training, JMO.

As for AW, I can't get on board that train yet. Her military experience, IIRC, was non-combat and 20+ years ago. I don't think the Air Force was training everyone in urban warfare back then. I could be wrong.

Why is it difficult for some to accept, especially considering the extent of heavy drug trafficking in the region and links between local bigwigs and other drug trafficking organizations in the region, that someone wouldn't have some experienced hit teams available for this kind of work? Sadly, hit teams are common in other areas, especially nearby urban areas, why would Pike County be an exception? What makes Pike County different?

Would hit team members care about sparing the children and dogs? Care enough to take extraordinary measures to ensure no dogs or children were injured or killed during this crime?
 
  • #500
The dogs and the babies are such an important piece to solving this.

Who would want the babies and dogs left unharmed?

The hamburger ball theory: this would take a lot of effort to plan and carry out successfully. More than 20 dogs in four different locations, and if only one dog wasn’t tranquilized it would bark and ruin their plan.

Surely the victims would have noticed if none of their dogs came to greet them when they came home because they were passed out from tranquilizers.

JMO, dogs were left unharmed because they were dogs who stayed inside the home at night. Killing them would have awakened the victims and ruined some of the element of surprise.
 
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