UNSOLVED Oh - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #33

[MittenScarpetta]

BBM
I still find that odd because in the event of such a tragedy, I would’ve thought a call would’ve been made to KR’s employer to notify him of such a tragedy. And then the employer would’ve said, KR’s not present at work today.

Just so.

Seems we agree on this one

Also, didn’t BH and KR work together? Why didn’t he find it odd that KR wasn’t at work that morning?

Why didn't he tell a family member?

If you were at work and had no idea what had happened yet, would you think to call a family member and ask why their relative didn’t come to work that day? Honest question, no snarkiness meant.

Personally, if I was unaware of what had transpired and my friend / co worker didn’t come to work, I’d probably assume they were home sick or had the day off.

At the end of the day, LE must not find any of this suspicious

I don't agree. Reader and DeWine have stated over and over that they think some of the family members lied to them.

ETA: One of the nasty little thoughts that have been running through my head here lately is the reason no one went to any trouble to locate and tell KR about his brother is because they may have suspected he already knew i.e. that he did it or was involved in it someway.

JMO

I don’t believe the the family thought KR was involved or aware, but perhaps the family didn’t want to risk KR (who they thought was alive and working) getting in trouble for his grow op on his property.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I have heard nothing to substantiate anything close to that.

Here is a thorough explanation of adverse possession as defined by Cornell School of Law.

Adverse Possession

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I had to learn water issues like tables, strata and blow iuts when we replaced a water well at the homestead in Alaska.

If I remember right instead of using a mechanical tool to grab them and retrieve them the plumber tried to move the guns and clothing closer to the well with water pressure from a fire hose. Now this would not have been my choice but .........


The result is the pressure blew out one of the apparently thin seperating strata and all the evidence was pushed into another moving water table and it’s gone. There was consideration to drill another hole large enough to allow divers. But I think they’ve made enough crazy choices and the well head is niwcsealed. It can be reopened.

I haven't read the article yet. But if I find guns 70 feet down, my first thoughts would be a wench and a powerful magnet. Is there a reason they couldn't have tried that?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Gotcha. It would have been more effective to spend the money to send a “grabber” down before blowing the entire bottom out.

Hindsight is 20/20 but the percentages would have been better for recovery. Now either evidence is lost or it’s going to take tens of thousands to recover it using ground water maps and maybe other wells to simply determine which direction it may have moved. The idea was good but poorly executed.

It may not take all that. If the well is unsealed, there are many technologies as options. Consider that a fairly large percentage of the deepest ocean man has ever explored was recently searched remotely via a compact submarine equipped with a camera.

 

[rsd1200]

That is my point exactly RSD. Yes KR is young, but there were older people there. Why did not one tell her to call his company? Why did no one go by to tell him about his brothers death?

KR was working as a lineman at an electric company if my memory is correct (it's been known not to be, but I think that is what I read). Those linemen, like the people who work at the cable companies and gas companies are sent out on a particular job in a particular place. The company always knows exactly where they are and like a UPS or Postal worker, the company can always contact them. No company just turns an employee lose to go do a job on his own. Too much risk of the employee sitting in a cafe or in the car lounging the day away.

My niece works for an insurance company. She goes around to companies and inventories their assets so the insurance company knows the value of the assets they are insuring. She spends a lot of time traveling. The company gives her a cell phone but they also have a GPS tracker on the car she drives. Kind of like Lojack I think. Anyway if they need to tell her something they can get her within minutes because they always know where she or rather her car is.

JMO

I'd think they would have a satellite phone. Cell would not be reliable imo. If its' like the guys here, they go out to a local place and trade their vehicles for work vehicles. It may just be a lot they rent, idk, but from there, they'll go out to the work site. My friend used to do similar work. It's hard work. If KR didn't show, at his location, the workplace may have even been trying to track him down at other sites, thinking he somehow got moved. The main office probably searched quite a bit, found the guy he rode with, etc... After getting back to whoever called them, it probably struck them, then; What if he stayed home last night? They were also probably functioning in shock. Folks look normal on the outside, when functioning in shock, but on the inside they are just barely hanging on by the tiniest of threads. Losing eight family members at one time is just unimaginable and I could understand if they are still functioning in shock. Also, KR2 said they tried to reach family on their phones, and couldn't get anyone. I took that to mean that they tried to reach others and were having trouble getting them, too.

I think that maybe they may have sensed it, too, but were still holding out for the call from KR, at lunch time.

Like you Raisin, I do think that something is known, by some people, and they don't want to tell. They're afraid, most likely. People will kill you over their family, pride, greed, and/or lust, just to name a few. Family or not. Just look at all the cases that come through here where parents have murdered their children. It speaks for itself.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I think she took a plea today.

And the Hamilton County Clerk of Courts has now "implemented a new zero tolerance policy." Ummmm, what exactly was their previous policy?!?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Wow! That's quite impressive, but, with that power comes great responsibility.

I could see a terrible situation in which a criminal with few family ties or concern for family offs them to keep their DNA out of some of these DNA databases.

 

[Betty P]

Has anyone heard anything new about Johnny Kerns?

Man named as suspect in 2 deaths including Rhoden cousin shooting

 

[iridized]

"This is the first time Sheriff Reader has mentioned the family, friends and neighbors of the Rhoden family as possibly obstructing the investigation."

Are friends, family of Pike County victims obstructing investigation?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

"This is the first time Sheriff Reader has mentioned the family, friends and neighbors of the Rhoden family as possibly obstructing the investigation."

Are friends, family of Pike County victims obstructing investigation?

Thank you so much iridized. I was going to look for that this morning but you saved me the trouble. You are a sweetheart.

Ok Betty here is the link in which Reader said that family was with holding information.

Are friends, family of Pike County victims obstructing investigation? - WCPO Cincinnati, OH


Sheriff Charles Reader sent the following statement Monday to I-Team reporter Hillary Lake after a request for an update in the case:

"I will say that I have met with the attorney general, his staff, my staff assigned to the investigation, and the family in the past weeks. I feel strongly that the case is going in the right direction. I would like to urge anyone withholding any information to come forward. I have made it clear that anyone who has lied to investigators or has purposefully mislead them in any manner in this case will be arrested and charged accordingly. The search for killers is my top priority. We are not investigating any one for criminal activity that they feel may incriminate themselves on in speaking with them to solve 8 murders. Come forward, be truthful, or we will be coming to arrest and charge anyone that are obstructing any officials investigating this horrific crime."

A few minutes later, Sheriff Reader sent the I-Team another message asking her to make this addition to his initial statement:

"Including family, friends and neighbors of the victims, if necessary. This case will be solved, we are working for the 8 victims of murder. Anyone that has or attempts, to delay, hamper, or mislead authorities in any fashion will be charged and arrested. Period."

 

[RAISINISBACK]

How is any of that relevant? We rehash this same discussion regularly here. There's nothing we can see that is out of whack with the timeline of Manley family members tragically discovering their murdered siblings, nieces, nephews, etc.

Please remember to post a link if you think you have a discrepancy.

Apologies in advance for my cynicism. This always feels like victim bashing, to me. Just finding ways to pick apart the scarce information provided to the public from distraught family members who found their kin horribly murdered that morning. Sorry, but I find it offensive. I can't believe those family members have had their lives turned upside down and still have to live with thise kinds of accusations from strangers every day for years and years.

BBM

I do realize you are having a problem with us discussing the lives of the victims and the actions of the family. I am not trying to offend you.

But please think about this. There is good and bad in everyone. While I think that overall the R's have a lot of good (hard working, cared about family, helped family and friends ect) they also had some bad ( fighting, aggressiveness, growing and selling an illegal drug ect). This just isn't the R's, everyone has good and bad in them, me, you, everyone. It is called being human.

But I also want you to consider this. Investigators of crimes and in particular murders must pick apart every single aspect of a victims life and they also must pick apart every single aspect of the lives of the victim's family, friends, business associates, everyone they knew, everyone they ever came in contact with in order to catch the killer. Stranger killing stranger is extremely rare.

Investigators in a murder must distance themselves from the victim and they must suspect everyone including family. They start with the assumption that everyone is a suspect (including family members) until that person can be conclusively ruled out as the killer.

We here at WS are attempting to be investigators. We are attempting to solve this crime and find the killers. We are all hoping that we can find that one clue that we can take to LE and say here, you should investigate this. To do that we must distance ourselves from the victims and the families left behind.

Can we have sympathy for the lives that are taken and the family left behind to suffer? Yes we can but we must not let it cloud our thought process. After all we are all here for a common purpose. To see the killers of these 8 people brought to justice. And if we are not here for that reason then why are we here day after day posting on this forum? The very fact that we are shows we care about both the victims and bringing justice to the family.

To constantly accuse the posters on here of victim bashing and not being sympathetic to the families is to place constraints on our thinking and on whatever investigative skills we may have (not that I am saying I or anyone else on here is a bona fide investigator). But we must have the freedom to explore our ideas and theories to the extent that we can rule out a person to our own satisfaction. If we do not have the freedom to do that then we are all wasting our time in coming here.

I do hope you understand what I am saying. And I am truly sorry if you have been offended by anything I post, but I think that putting the killers of 8 people behind bars should be our first priority.

JMO

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I haven't read the article yet. But if I find guns 70 feet down, my first thoughts would be a wench and a powerful magnet. Is there a reason they couldn't have tried that?

I agree. But I think it was more fun to use the fire truck.

 

[Betty P]

Thank you so much iridized. I was going to look for that this morning but you saved me the trouble. You are a sweetheart.

Ok Betty here is the link in which Reader said that family was with holding information.

Are friends, family of Pike County victims obstructing investigation? - WCPO Cincinnati, OH


Sheriff Charles Reader sent the following statement Monday to I-Team reporter Hillary Lake after a request for an update in the case:

"I will say that I have met with the attorney general, his staff, my staff assigned to the investigation, and the family in the past weeks. I feel strongly that the case is going in the right direction. I would like to urge anyone withholding any information to come forward. I have made it clear that anyone who has lied to investigators or has purposefully mislead them in any manner in this case will be arrested and charged accordingly. The search for killers is my top priority. We are not investigating any one for criminal activity that they feel may incriminate themselves on in speaking with them to solve 8 murders. Come forward, be truthful, or we will be coming to arrest and charge anyone that are obstructing any officials investigating this horrific crime."

A few minutes later, Sheriff Reader sent the I-Team another message asking her to make this addition to his initial statement:

"Including family, friends and neighbors of the victims, if necessary. This case will be solved, we are working for the 8 victims of murder. Anyone that has or attempts, to delay, hamper, or mislead authorities in any fashion will be charged and arrested. Period."

Thanks for the link. The article was early in the investigation and refers to family knowing something. Since the W's are the laser focus, it's logical to assume that, in 2016, Reader felt some family members had information, not that they were participants in the murders.

Reader's quote also alludes to the fact that some people might be afraid to come forward because they're involved in other illegal activities (assume something related to the grow ops of CR1 and KR). Reader's remarks indicated there would be no protection for any possible witnesses if they were involved in such activities. So here are the options that anyone who knows something faces if they tell Reader something they may know or suspect about the murders:

• getting busted by Reader for participation in trafficking MJ
• getting killed by the Rhoden murderers when someone in LE snitches to the suspects (see the Gone: Forgotten Women of Ohio documentry & possibly Violet Rhoden Taylor)
  
• having someone in your family killed for the same reasons above
• losing custody of your minor children (see Gone, etc. documentary, possibly VRT above)
• having rogue LE or their associates use information you share to implicate you as the killer (see James Manley)

Now the alternative would be to actually, you know, conduct an honest investigation, not leak information to killers or offer some kind of real protection to witnesses.

As I mentioned earlier, you should watch the Gone: Forgotten Women of Ohio documentary. It explains very clearly why people in that are are terrified of talking to LE. People who do that end up dead, often.

ETA: To expand on the child custody issue, the Gone documentary reveals that some people are forced to become informants to LE with threats of losing custody or actual removal of their minor children. Some women who took LE up on their offer ended up dead anyway when someone in LE leaked to killers the identity of those informants. Some judges and social workers have been involved in this travesty. So, yeah, if its the same situation in Pike County, a lot of people may stand to lose their careers if the Rhoden murderers are ever arrested. This corrupt system was in place before the murders.

What if CR1 was being threatened with HR losing custody of her children unless CR1 cooperated with LE as a snitch? What if someone in LE then leaked that CR1 was going to work as an informant?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Seems we agree on this one



If you were at work and had no idea what had happened yet, would you think to call a family member and ask why their relative didn’t come to work that day? Honest question, no snarkiness meant.

Personally, if I was unaware of what had transpired and my friend / co worker didn’t come to work, I’d probably assume they were home sick or had the day off.



I don’t believe the the family thought KR was involved or aware, but perhaps the family didn’t want to risk KR (who they thought was alive and working) getting in trouble for his grow op on his property.

BBM

As I understand it, both KR and BH were working as linemen for an electric company. That means they have to travel to and from jobs in vehicles that have radios. These guys often listen to radios while they are working on the job (or so I have been told by people who work at a cable company). The news about the R's was national. It was all over every TV and radio station within an hour of the discovery of the bodies. I do not see how BH could have possibly been unaware of the deaths of his good friend's family. And even if he himself did not hear the news I am very sure that his friends and family were ringing his phone off the hook and that his co workers made sure he knew.

JMO

 

[iridized]

We already know that a Rhoden "victim" has been arrested for drugs other than cannabis. BTW, that is Violet Rhoden Taylor's brother, but you know that already Betty. "Search warrants were served on both suspects’ homes on Grassy Fork Road in Peebles where more than $8,000 in cash was seized, along with an estimated $7,700 in prescription pills, nine guns, and a small amount of marijuana."
Two people, Josh Rhoden and John McJunkin arrested on drug charges - Portsmouth Daily Times

 

[Betty P]

We already know that a Rhoden "victim" has been arrested for drugs other than cannabis. BTW, that is Violet Rhoden Taylor's brother, but you know that already Betty. "Search warrants were served on both suspects’ homes on Grassy Fork Road in Peebles where more than $8,000 in cash was seized, along with an estimated $7,700 in prescription pills, nine guns, and a small amount of marijuana."
Two people, Josh Rhoden and John McJunkin arrested on drug charges - Portsmouth Daily Times

And Violet Rhoden ended up dead, too. I wonder if she was threatened with loss of custody of her son if she didn't snitch to LE. Then someone in LE leaked the info to the killers. Then LE tries to call it a "suicide". That exact scenario has already played out a couple of times in Ross & Scioto counties. It might explain the dispassionate dialogue from the caller who reported Violet's "suicide" to 911 - it was a script they were given for the call.

Anyone want to take a wager that JR is next? I hope not. I do hope this corruption is exposed and rooted out before anyone else "commits suicide" or "overdoses".

ETA: I wonder if Candy Newsome was also threatened with loss of custody of her daughter unless she cooperated with LE, only to find herself ratted out and killed?

UPDATE: Reward in unsolved Scioto County double murder case to be withdrawn soon

 

[Dudly]

BBM.
IIRC, they only said the red truck was used during the commission of A murder, not necessarily the Rhoden murders. Wasn't the truck in the possession of a couple of other people before the M's bought it? And wasn't a murder committed by one of those previous owners some years prior? Semantics, I know...

I understand they did put a GPS tracker on the truck after the Rhoden murders so LE obviously had good reason to do so.

IMO, LM nor BJM participated in the murders, but I strongly believe they know who committed this heinous crime and are keeping quiet due to fear or not wanting to send their loved ones to prison.

IMO

I agree. As I understood it, that truck was used in the commission of A murder not necessarily the Rhoden murders. It may have been used in the Rhoden murders but no one has specifically said that it was that I recall...

 

[Betty P]

I agree. As I understood it, that truck was used in the commission of A murder not necessarily the Rhoden murders. It may have been used in the Rhoden murders but no one has specifically said that it was that I recall...

I wondered about the same thing. If PCSO and BCI had gotten what they wanted, at some point they would have to reveal to the courts which murder the truck was involved in. Had they shaded the truth and the truck was involved in a different murder or crime not related to the Rhoden Massacre, their case against JM would have fallen apart. Tainted fruit or somesuch (IANAL). If they really, honestly thought JM was involved in the murders and wanted to bring him to justice, would they have risked lying on the search and arrest warrant about their key piece of evidence - the red truck?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thanks for the link. The article was early in the investigation and refers to family knowing something. Since the W's are the laser focus, it's logical to assume that, in 2016, Reader felt some family members had information, not that they were participants in the murders.

Reader's quote also alludes to the fact that some people might be afraid to come forward because they're involved in other illegal activities (assume something related to the grow ops of CR1 and KR). Reader's remarks indicated there would be no protection for any possible witnesses if they were involved in such activities. So here are the options that anyone who knows something faces if they tell Reader something they may know or suspect about the murders:

• getting busted by Reader for participation in trafficking MJ
• getting killed by the Rhoden murderers when someone in LE snitches to the suspects (see the Gone: Forgotten Women of Ohio documentry & possibly Violet Rhoden Taylor)
  
• having someone in your family killed for the same reasons above
• losing custody of your minor children (see Gone, etc. documentary, possibly VRT above)
• having rogue LE or their associates use information you share to implicate you as the killer (see James Manley)

Now the alternative would be to actually, you know, conduct an honest investigation, not leak information to killers or offer some kind of real protection to witnesses.

As I mentioned earlier, you should watch the Gone: Forgotten Women of Ohio documentary. It explains very clearly why people in that are are terrified of talking to LE. People who do that end up dead, often.

ETA: To expand on the child custody issue, the Gone documentary reveals that some people are forced to become informants to LE with threats of losing custody or actual removal of their minor children. Some women who took LE up on their offer ended up dead anyway when someone in LE leaked to killers the identity of those informants. Some judges and social workers have been involved in this travesty. So, yeah, if its the same situation in Pike County, a lot of people may stand to lose their careers if the Rhoden murderers are ever arrested. This corrupt system was in place before the murders.

What if CR1 was being threatened with HR losing custody of her children unless CR1 cooperated with LE as a snitch? What if someone in LE then leaked that CR1 was going to work as an informant?

BBM

Now the alternative would be to actually, you know, conduct an honest investigation, not leak information to killers or offer some kind of real protection to witnesses.

Would you please provide me a link that says that Reader is not conducting an honest investigation or any proof you have that he is not?

Would you also provide me a link that says he or any other LE working these murders are leaking information to the killers or any proof you have that they are?

Would you also provide me with the link that the murders of the women in the Gone documentary have any connection to the murders of the R's or any proof you have that they are connected in any way?

What if CR1 was being threatened with HR losing custody of her children unless CR1 cooperated with LE as a snitch? What if someone in LE then leaked that CR1 was going to work as an informant?

Would you please provide me with a link or any proof you have that CR1 was a snitch or that he was threatened with HR losing her children if he did not become one?

All of this is speculation based on your own interpretation of a documentary and I suspect your own life experience with some members of LE.

While you are free, as we all on here are, to have your own theory or theories and you have every right to post those theories, please take a step back and try to be objective about all this. If any of us get tunnel vision on this we are never going to get anywhere.

As an aside, I enjoy reading everyone's posts on here. I come here day after day because I enjoy reading the theories of everyone. I might not agree with them. But I do enjoy them and I do consider the posters on here to be very pleasant acquaintances of mine who come up with some interesting theories.

JMO

 

[iridized]

And Violet Rhoden ended up dead, too. I wonder if she was threatened with loss of custody of her son if she didn't snitch to LE. Then someone in LE leaked the info to the killers. Then LE tries to call it a "suicide". That exact scenario has already played out a couple of times in Ross & Scioto counties. It might explain the dispassionate dialogue from the caller who reported Violet's "suicide" to 911 - it was a script they were given for the call.

Anyone want to take a wager that JR is next? I hope not. I do hope this corruption is exposed and rooted out before anyone else "commits suicide" or "overdoses".

ETA: I wonder if Candy Newsome was also threatened with loss of custody of her daughter unless she cooperated with LE, only to find herself ratted out and killed?

UPDATE: Reward in unsolved Scioto County double murder case to be withdrawn soon

Or Violet could have had a relapse. Her brother had recently been busted for a LARGE amount of pills. The "dispassionate dialogue from the caller" could be attributed to drug use as well. Active drug users hang with other active drug users. And we know that there has been talk about HR's "baby daddy" CG being an active drug user...