UNSOLVED Oh - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #33

[RAISINISBACK]

That’s possible. How do the Wagner’s become a laser focus though? Would VRT and J.R. possibility have helped in the name of drugs or unknowingly?

I can’t figure out if JK is a kingpin OR if he’s a desperate addict who turned squirrel to save his own tail. And once his tail was saved, he turned rogue squirrel unknowingly to the pack leader. I’m not suggesting widespread corruption or any type of conspiracy. I’m wondering if he’s dirtier and extremely calculated compared to all the other squirrels.

I was thinking that it's possible the W's and JK were in business together. Or perhaps all of them were in business together.

Somehow I think that CR1 paying 30k in cash down on DR's home figures into this. That money came from somewhere. I do not think he had a 401k or other retirement plan he could have cashed in although I have clients that are self employed who contribute the maximum amount to an IRA every year. But those clients make well over six figures in their business and I just don't think CR1 was making that.

Also I think somewhere along the line that it was posted on here that was cash money. Of course it could have been in a checking or savings account which is normal, but if it indeed was cash as in 100.00 bills, then that would be extremely unusual to have lying around and could have only been from some illegal source. Or it could have been money fronted to him to buy drugs to sell or proceeds from drugs someone fronted to him to sell. At any rate I think it is important.

I too have not figured out how Kerns fits into this, but him being present and a suspect at VRT's murder, kind of makes me think he may have been present at the other R's murders. If there is a link between him and the W's be it business or personal they could have paid him to kill the R's. It seems he has no qualms about killing people.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

It's been said that federal agents are involved in the Chillicothe investigation. They likely know of at least some of the "unusual behavior" of local LE. It's possible they're "tolerating" a certain amount of unethical behavior in support of the larger goal of nailing high level drug traffickers. Most of this activity seems to be centered around the recruitment and management of confidential informants. JMO, that situation isn't being handled well. But, yeah, these kinds of things have happened in the past during other mob activity when informants commit crimes with LE knowledge and protection. Mafia, Whitey Bulger, etc.

As for the theory about JK using JR and VRT to help kill the Rhodens, I seriously doubt they participated in the actual murders. From her social media and comments from friends, VRT doesn't seem like the murdering type, especially close relatives. Nor would opiate addicts be useful in the mass execution of 8 family members. As for providing inside information about the schedules of the family, layout of homes, etc., it's possible. But JK may have acquired that information on his own. I'm guessing he was acquainted with some of the deceased Rhodens and may have visited KR and/or CR1's trailers in the past.

If JK and others did commit the murders and JR or VRT knew that, it most definitely put their lives in danger. Further, it's possible some in LE know whether JK was one of the killers, considering he may be one of their informants. As Mittens points out, he seems to be involved in a few murders, but never seems to be held accountable - similar to Dollar Bill in Chilli. If that's the case, it's easy to understand why JR or VRT or anyone else who knew the Rhodens would fear talking to LE about what they know. If she knew, VRT obviously had no protection. She may have been killed by JK, who may also work for LE.

 

[rsd1200]

Agree, it seems possible Josh uses, too. Even if CR1 wasn't dealing hard drugs, he may have been very close to people who were through his own business. He likely knew who was selling what and possibly who was supplying it.

One part of the documentary GFWOO (just an abbreviation) that caught my attention was one of the missing women from the Chilli area told her mother that she and another young woman had been taken on a "weekend shopping trip" to Detroit by a woman officer from the Chilli or Ross County PD. That really struck me as odd. She said they went to buy clothes, etc. Why would a LEO take young women addicts/users on a weekend getaway to Detroit? It's not like its a major destination for shopping and tourism (no offense to Detroiters here at WS). Why does Detroit keep popping up? I'm thinking of some old references to some of the Rhodens going to Detroit for salvage car buying trips. May be nothing, or something. Detroit is a major part of the drug pipeline that runs through Ohio.

Detroit is at the head of a pipeline. It's where I-75 starts. So, the pipeline starts there and heads south through Oh, Ky, Tn... They're filtering stuff down south, and likely bringing stuff back up when they return. Possibly human trafficking, firearms, and, of course, cash.

I've seen officers do very kind things to prisoners or folks on parole. It could have been just that, trying to help them out. I've seen other LEOs treat folks as less than human too. When you've seen folks pack their whole life in garbage bags, from place to place, for so long, you tend to want to try and help them. Not that it works, but it doesn't hurt to try. Maybe she was just trying.

There was a used car dealership around here, and they were going to Detroit to get their cars, for the lot. When they'd get back to the dealership they'd take the drugs out of the car door panels, and move the drugs, and put the cars up for sale. No telling how much they were raking in before they got caught.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

It's been said that federal agents are involved in the Chillicothe investigation. They likely know of at least some of the "unusual behavior" of local LE. It's possible they're "tolerating" a certain amount of unethical behavior in support of the larger goal of nailing high level drug traffickers. Most of this activity seems to be centered around the recruitment and management of confidential informants. JMO, that situation isn't being handled well. But, yeah, these kinds of things have happened in the past during other mob activity when informants commit crimes with LE knowledge and protection. Mafia, Whitey Bulger, etc.

As for the theory about JK using JR and VRT to help kill the Rhodens, I seriously doubt they participated in the actual murders. From her social media and comments from friends, VRT doesn't seem like the murdering type, especially close relatives. Nor would opiate addicts be useful in the mass execution of 8 family members. As for providing inside information about the schedules of the family, layout of homes, etc., it's possible. But JK may have acquired that information on his own. I'm guessing he was acquainted with some of the deceased Rhodens and may have visited KR and/or CR1's trailers in the past.

If JK and others did commit the murders and JR or VRT knew that, it most definitely put their lives in danger. Further, it's possible some in LE know whether JK was one of the killers, considering he may be one of their informants. As Mittens points out, he seems to be involved in a few murders, but never seems to be held accountable - similar to Dollar Bill in Chilli. If that's the case, it's easy to understand why JR or VRT or anyone else who knew the Rhodens would fear talking to LE about what they know. If she knew, VRT obviously had no protection. She may have been killed by JK, who may also work for LE.

BBM

That would not be the DOJ. The DOJ simply oversees taxpayer money spent by LE departments and it also investigates the conduct of a LE department.

They do other things in relation to laws and the violation of them, but nothing that would be relevant in this murder case or any other murder case. Most of their work involves fraud by government agencies/employees or fraud of a government agency by a citizen.

They are not in the habit of tolerating any unethical behavior or sanctioning it.

This is from Wikipedia and might explain it better than I can.

The United States Department of Justice (DOJ), also known as the Justice Department, is a federal executive department of the U.S. government, responsible for the enforcement of the law and administration of justice in the United States, equivalent to the justice or interior ministries of other countries. The department was formed in 1870 during the Ulysses S. Grant administration.
The Department of Justice administers several federal law enforcement agencies including the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), and the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA). The department is responsible for investigating instances of financial fraud, representing the United States government in legal matters (such as in cases before the Supreme Court), and running the federal prison system.[3][4] The department is also responsible for reviewing the conduct of local law enforcement as directed by the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994.[5]
The department is headed by the United States Attorney General, who is nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate and is a member of the Cabinet. The current Attorney General is Jeff Sessions.


The only federal department I can think of that might sanction unethical behavior from an informant in relation to drugs would be the DEA. The ATF also has informants.

 

[RichP]

Somewhat off topic, but anyway, the culture of the Pike County area has been eyeopening for me. I just finished reading Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis which helps explain the mindset that creates premature pregnancies, massive drug use, lack of education, the living off the dole doing odd jobs here and there while pocketing a check from Uncle Sam, etc. It is a good read and I highly recommend it.

It is a GREAT read. I went to school in Cincy and my best friend was from the Hamilton/Middletown are. He went to school on the GI bill and worked at ARMCO steel at night. I also had a family living next door to me who were from the hills of eastern Kentucky. They'd have given me the shirt off their back. It's a tragedy that an entire culture is being wiped out.

For another great read of that culture read: Night Comes to the Cumberlands by Harry Caudill. It goes much deeper into the reasons, causes and effects of why the Hill People are like they are than Hillbilly Elegy.

 

[rsd1200]

It is a GREAT read. I went to school in Cincy and my best friend was from the Hamilton/Middletown are. He went to school on the GI bill and worked at ARMCO steel at night. I also had a family living next door to me who were from the hills of eastern Kentucky. They'd have given me the shirt off their back. It's a tragedy that an entire culture is being wiped out.

For another great read of that culture read: Night Comes to the Cumberlands by Harry Caudill. It goes much deeper into the reasons, causes and effects of why the Hill People are like they are than Hillbilly Elegy.

BBM
Not sure what that means. Elaborate? I'm from a long line of Appalachian Hill People.

 

[Betty P]

BBM

That would not be the DOJ. The DOJ simply oversees taxpayer money spent by LE departments and it also investigates the conduct of a LE department.

They do other things in relation to laws and the violation of them, but nothing that would be relevant in this murder case or any other murder case. Most of their work involves fraud by government agencies/employees or fraud of a government agency by a citizen.

They are not in the habit of tolerating any unethical behavior or sanctioning it.

This is from Wikipedia and might explain it better than I can.

The United States Department of Justice (DOJ), also known as the Justice Department, is a federal executive department of the U.S. government, responsible for the enforcement of the law and administration of justice in the United States, equivalent to the justice or interior ministries of other countries. The department was formed in 1870 during the Ulysses S. Grant administration.
The Department of Justice administers several federal law enforcement agencies including the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), and the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA). The department is responsible for investigating instances of financial fraud, representing the United States government in legal matters (such as in cases before the Supreme Court), and running the federal prison system.[3][4] The department is also responsible for reviewing the conduct of local law enforcement as directed by the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994.[5]
The department is headed by the United States Attorney General, who is nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate and is a member of the Cabinet. The current Attorney General is Jeff Sessions.


The only federal department I can think of that might sanction unethical behavior from an informant in relation to drugs would be the DEA. The ATF also has informants.

Members of the FBI have sanctioned unethical behavior in the past, though not officially. Same with the Mafia. They're part of DOJ. It's not an issue in this situation so far. No one even knows whether the FBI or any other federal agents are involved in assisting in the Rhoden murder investigation.

Informants May Get a Pass on Murder

ETA: Just adding that in the GMWOO documentary, the informants, innocent victims and bad apples, appeared to be recruited and managed by local LE. FBI is allegedly involved in trying to solve these cases, but it's unknown if they also are working with the informants.

Also of note to those of you who haven't yet watched the above documentary, one member of the the documentary's investigative team is a retired FBI agent. He was working with them as a consultant. Very professional and expert, especially at interviewing people, talking to LE. He appeared to be concerned about what he was seeing and hearing. That's one reason why the docu and what it reveals is very credible, JMO.

 

[Dudly]

JMO, LE would have needed a separate search warrant as it was probably a legally owned/registered/taxed piece of real estate, as opposed to just one of CR1's outbuildings or sheds. Wasn't the house still jointly owned by some of the Rhoden brothers? Agree, it probably just had personal possessions inside. Isn't that where TR said they still kept the old family Bible?

He looked for that Bible in that yellow house during an interview....

 

[Harmony 2]

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Tricia

 

[MittenScarpetta]

JMO, LE would have needed a separate search warrant as it was probably a legally owned/registered/taxed piece of real estate, as opposed to just one of CR1's outbuildings or sheds. Wasn't the house still jointly owned by some of the Rhoden brothers? Agree, it probably just had personal possessions inside. Isn't that where TR said they still kept the old family Bible?

Yes, that’s where TR said they kept the family Bible. KR2 spoke about a Bible too.

He looked for that Bible in that yellow house during an interview....

HMR has a photo of a Bible on one of her social media pages. Unless I’m blind, it’s no longer there but was a couple weeks ago. I’m gonna look again cause maybe I just missed it but I’ve seen it. It’s a snapshot of her and her grandfather I believe and the photo is sitting on top of the Holy Bible

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, that’s where TR said they kept the family Bible. KR2 spoke about a Bible too.



HMR has a photo of a Bible on one of her social media pages. Unless I’m blind, it’s no longer there but was a couple weeks ago. I’m gonna look again cause maybe I just missed it but I’ve seen it. It’s a snapshot of her and her grandfather I believe and the photo is sitting on top of the Holy Bible

I think they are speaking of two different Bibles. It seems that HMR had one that she'd started, or KR2 would have said, it's written in the family bible that KR2 kept in her room, not just "a bible". The one that TR was looking for, I feel, was one that an older family member would have likely had, passed to an adult child, for instance, then passed down to their child, or cousins.

HMR had named Kendra the godmother of her newborn, KR2 said. The proof, according to KR2, is written inside the cover of a bible HMR kept in her bedroom.

Kendra Rhoden: I could have been the ninth victim in Pike Co. family massacre

Tony steeled himself as he stood outside that little yellow house back in the summer. He hadn’t stepped foot inside since his dad Clarence died eight years before.

He went in search of a piece of his family’s heritage, for something to hold onto.

He inhaled deeply and walked up to the house, its paint peeling more than he remembered. He looked at the particle board.

Patient and strong and alone, he methodically worked the nails out of the board and lifted it just enough to slip inside.

He walked across the threshold.

Not much had changed. There were Kenneth’s things, left after he moved out and into his own place on Left Folk Road. A few of his dad’s were there, too.

But he couldn’t find that one thing he came seeking: The white leather-bound family Bible, with photos of happier times stuffed between its pages; and maybe family birthdates and other notes scribbled just inside its cover.

It didn’t take him long to check the rooms before he knew it wasn’t there. It’s most likely in one of those trailers the authorities towed away.

At least he hopes it is.

Pike County: Death in the foothills

 

[GoBuckeyes]

BBM

I think the point I am getting at here RSD is that we don't know KR. We don't know what kind of personality he had or what kind of temper.

I guess what I am trying to figure out is if the reason the family did not try too hard to notify him of his brothers murder, is because they may have suspected he was either the killer or was involved in some way in the killings and had packed up and took off for parts unknown.

Let me say before I get pounded on this that it is pure speculation on my part and I have absolutely zero proof this is what was going on in the minds of family members at the time. I am just wondering if anyone else thinks it is possible.

JMO

If he does have a temper, which I have no proof that he does, might they have been worried about him taking the law into his own hands?

A magnet would stick to the well casing if it was steel. If it was in the center of nonmagnetic material to get it down the well, it might pick up the gun, but then the gun would be magnetized by contact and try to stick to the well casing.

Thanks, Dudly. I was picturing concrete for the well...especially since it gave way quickly under water pressure being introduced??

 

[Betty P]

Not linked to this case, but what a mess in Ohio's drug epidemic. Kirkersville is about an hour north of Pike County.
The police chief overdosed on fentanyl that was taken from the evidence room. Found a syringe with fentanyl and a ziploc bag with traces of cocaine.

Ohio police chief overdosed on drugs taken from evidence room, investigators say

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Detroit is at the head of a pipeline. It's where I-75 starts. So, the pipeline starts there and heads south through Oh, Ky, Tn... They're filtering stuff down south, and likely bringing stuff back up when they return. Possibly human trafficking, firearms, and, of course, cash.

I've seen officers do very kind things to prisoners or folks on parole. It could have been just that, trying to help them out. I've seen other LEOs treat folks as less than human too. When you've seen folks pack their whole life in garbage bags, from place to place, for so long, you tend to want to try and help them. Not that it works, but it doesn't hurt to try. Maybe she was just trying.

There was a used car dealership around here, and they were going to Detroit to get their cars, for the lot. When they'd get back to the dealership they'd take the drugs out of the car door panels, and move the drugs, and put the cars up for sale. No telling how much they were raking in before they got caught.

Not linked to this case, but a doctor in the upscale suburbs of Detroit was sentenced this week. His pill mill spanned through Michigan and Ohio, down to Tennesssee and over to WV. I found the statement about “runners” interesting.

Pill dealer gets 12 years; physician 6

 

[RAISINISBACK]

If he does have a temper, which I have no proof that he does, might they have been worried about him taking the law into his own hands?


Thanks, Dudly. I was picturing concrete for the well...especially since it gave way quickly under water pressure being introduced??

Absolutely. That could be true, especially if the family suspected he knew who the killers were.

JMO

 

[Dudly]

If he does have a temper, which I have no proof that he does, might they have been worried about him taking the law into his own hands?


Thanks, Dudly. I was picturing concrete for the well...especially since it gave way quickly under water pressure being introduced??

Old hand dug wells were large tile, brick lined or stone lined and about 24" in diameter. Then they went to steel casing and now most are plastic casing. Wells are usually deeper than the casing in limestone and that may have given away or even the casing itself if it was a very old well....

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Not linked to this case, but what a mess in Ohio's drug epidemic. Kirkersville is about an hour north of Pike County.
The police chief overdosed on fentanyl that was taken from the evidence room. Found a syringe with fentanyl and a ziploc bag with traces of cocaine.

Ohio police chief overdosed on drugs taken from evidence room, investigators say

I agree Betty. Chief Hughes had just been the subject of an investigation of the local paper. They found he lied in his job appand had been let go at several positions. There was something about an assault and several internal investigations. Imo not le material. Left 3 kids And a wife. No life insurance. Those drugs are bad.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Not linked to this case, but a doctor in the upscale suburbs of Detroit was sentenced this week. His pill mill spanned through Michigan and Ohio, down to Tennesssee and over to WV. I found the statement about “runners” interesting.

Pill dealer gets 12 years; physician 6

They got 2 mirecfrom detrout as well I’ll look up link.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

They got 2 mirecfrom detrout as well I’ll look up link.

Sorry. Hands bad when above posted.

TOMORROWS A BRAND NEW DAY!!!!

 

[rsd1200]

Kind of off topic, but, interesting article.

I looked down on it too before I was here. It’s a lack of understanding. No one made you stick a needle in your arm or put a straw in your nose. But at the same time, when you’re so looked down upon, you don’t want to ask for help when it gets to that point. And it’s too late anyway sometimes. —Ken*, 28

Juggalos Tell Us How They’ve Been Affected by the Opioid Crisis