OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #34 *Arrests*

[Cryptic]

I would think the grow op would have provided them with some significant cash and an easier lifestyle.

Twenty years ago, a "successful" mid level commercial high grade marijuana operation may of yielded some relatively significant cash.

My impression, however, is that it is a very different market today. High grade marijuana is far more readily available as it is legal in a growing number of states and know how about producing it is no longer a "black art" obtainable only through word of mouth. Rather, detailed instruction are well, "a click away". Thus, the stuff no longer commands truly premium prices.

Then factor in that the operating costs of hi grade marijuana operations (expensive fertilizers, electricity for copious quantities of grow lights, heating, purchasing expensive lighting systems etc) can add up.

In addition, there is probably a big profit difference between being one of several mid level commercial wholesalers of an illegal substance and say, being the only wholesaler in an area after rivals have been uhmm...."eliminated" / intimidated and also controlling sales of the drug at the street level in the same area.

 

[rsd1200]

Twenty years ago, a "successful" mid level commercial high grade marijuana operation may of yielded some relatively significant cash.

My impression, however, is that it is a very different market today. High grade marijuana is far more readily available as it is legal in a growing number of states and producing it is no longer a "black art" obtainable only through word of mouth. Rather, detailed instruction are well, "a click away". Thus, the stuff no longer commands truly premium prices.

Then factor in that the operating costs of hi grade marijuana operations (expensive fertilizers, electricity for copious quantities of grow lights, heating, purchasing expensive lighting systems etc) can add up.

In addition, there is probably a big profit difference between being one of several mid level commercial wholesaler of an illegal substance and say, being the only wholesaler in an area after rivals have been uhmm...."eliminated" / intimidated and also controlling sales of the drug at the street level for a given area.

Also, Meth got a toe-hold, and now, weed doesn't move as quickly, and prices have dropped, Meth seems to be in high demand, in my region, running neck and neck alongside Heroin, many users will use both.

 

[Cryptic]

Also, Meth got a toe-hold, and now, weed doesn't move as quickly, and prices have dropped, Meth seems to be in high demand, in my region, running neck and neck alongside Heroin, many users will use both.

Good point. My guess is that a certain number of substance users have "graduated" to meth, thus reducing demand for hi grade marijuana. Meanwhile, the remaining hi grade marijuana aficionados have many sources from which to obtain it, thus further reducing the price.

In the end, I don't think the family's MJ operation was the motive. The size of the operation was at best mid level commercial- and that maybe a stretch. Likewise, the earnings from the operation was not high (at least in my impression). Though Cartels have the resources and the willingness for over kill violence, they usually boast of the punishment to further intimidate rivals. In this case, there have been no boastings etc.

 

[kaykay543]

DR, and it appears, the R family, were friends with BH and his family, and BH was into Demo Derbies too. She mentions the evil/wicked people, on his memorial page, 3x in 2014, and once in 2015.

From DR's FB status, "It's Complicated", along with BJM's statement in the interview below, I don't think that they lived together, in a permanent sense.

“I yelled Rhoden! Rhoden! Rhoden!’’ she recalled, and ran to Chris Rhoden's bedroom.
Pike County: 'I was not leaving those babies in there'

Just to clear things up--I am the one that posted they lived together in the trailer. This is what I was told but I cannot give a source here on WS. So I apologize for that. No they did not remarry as far as I know. To ME she is not really an "ex" girlfriend (I guess that still makes her an ex wife) as she was clearly back in a relationship with CR1 as shown on her Facebook posts.

I am not sure I would put much faith in BJM statements. Her statements about that morning are IMO very inconsistent.

I do have some history/experience with one of the families in this case so I am trying to be careful

 

[evelezrn]

To Dudley and PJ1 ... (I'm sorry but I don't know how to reply to 2 posters at once or how to do the multi-quote thing).

I read both of your posts about the different possibilities of using the "land" for such purposes. The land angle has been one of my many theories since the beginning. Within the first days after these murders someone posted "Follow the land". Not sure who it was, because at the beginning, posts came in SO FAST, Websleuths had to start new threads every day or 2. It stuck out to me because it was just those few words and nothing more.

I READ EVERY POST and am here every day. I SELDOM POST because I've never been able to organize my thoughts well enough to find the right words for anyone ELSE to understand what i mean. Most of the time things come out the wrong way. I'm a Registered Nurse so it REALLY is hard for me at work Just posting this took me forever. BUT, i could "talk" aloud till your ears hurt. (A problem I've had my whole life)

BOTTOM LINE THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR PUTTING MY THOUGHTS INTO WORDS.

 

[kaykay543]

Good point. My guess is that a certain number of substance users have "graduated" to meth, thus reducing demand for hi grade marijuana. Meanwhile, the remaining hi grade marijuana aficionados have many sources from which to obtain it, thus further reducing the price.

In the end, I don't think the family's MJ operation was the motive. The size of the operation was at best mid level commercial- and that maybe a stretch. Likewise, the earnings from the operation was not high (at least in my impression). Though Cartels have the resources and the willingness for over kill violence, they usually boast of the punishment to further intimidate rivals. In this case, there have been no boastings etc.

I agree I don't think it was the MJ operation either.

But if we think about that area; pills, meth and H are huge there. It's a known "drug highway"

The first pill mills were started in Ohio. Unfortunately Ohio is where the whole opioid epidemic started with just one Dr. The book Dreamland is a great read on how it all started in Ohio. Fascinating read

During the heyday of pill mills (2009 and forward) in Ohio; many people were making up medical businesses to cash in on the fad. Some people would incorporate them so they couldn't be sued as easily. All you had to do was find a Dr to hire for your "pain clinic" Most "pain clinics" of that time were all cash business.

 

[evelezrn]

I agree I don't think it was the MJ operation either.

But if we think about that area; pills, meth and H are huge there. It's a known "drug highway"

The first pill mills were started in Ohio. Unfortunately Ohio is where the whole opioid epidemic started with just one Dr. The book Dreamland is a great read on how it all started in Ohio. Fascinating read

During the heyday of pill mills (2009 and forward) in Ohio; many people were making up medical businesses to cash in on the fad. Some people would incorporate them so they couldn't be sued as easily. All you had to do was find a Dr to hire for your "pain clinic" Most "pain clinics" of that time were all cash business.

Dreamland was an excellent read. (real people, actual facts with accurate references). I read it because of this case.

 

[rsd1200]

Good point. My guess is that a certain number of substance users have "graduated" to meth, thus reducing demand for hi grade marijuana. Meanwhile, the remaining hi grade marijuana aficionados have many sources from which to obtain it, thus further reducing the price.

In the end, I don't think the family's MJ operation was the motive. The size of the operation was at best mid level commercial- and that maybe a stretch. Likewise, the earnings from the operation was not high (at least in my impression). Though Cartels have the resources and the willingness for over kill violence, they usually boast of the punishment to further intimidate rivals. In this case, there have been no boastings etc.

I agree. IF to boost their income stream, they'd done like quite a few have, around here, and moved into Meth and/or Heroin, that is where I could see more danger coming into play. Meth, more-so, than Heroin. Meth is unlike anything I've ever seen. It makes folks very unpredictable, and they feel like they're, superhuman.

From one of the articles I've been reading, these same folks likely would never be like this w/o chronic Meth use. It's a Helluva drug. ;

Pharmacologically, crystal meth can produce both the motivation and skill to engage in military-like activities; it activates neurochemical pathways that increase aggressive drive, as well as paranoid tendencies (Sekine et al., 2006). Both of these are accentuated by the sleep deprivation that accompanies chronic meth use. The combination of aggression, hypervigilance, and sleeplessness produced by crystal meth can help fuel behavior that looks very much like the mission-focused behavior of small, elite military units.

Crystal methamphetamine use among American Indian and White youth in Appalachia: Social context, masculinity, and desistance

 

[Cryptic]

I agree I don't think it was the MJ operation either.

But if we think about that area; pills, meth and H are huge there. It's a known "drug highway"

Maybe that could support a motivation of:

"I am a large scale and very aggressive meth / pill dealer. I think any competing drug (in this case apparently hi grade marijuana) could reduce the demand for the drugs I deal. So, I warned the potential competition, then eliminated it".

Though this is defiantly possible, the intimate victim knowledge the perpetrators had would seem to reduce the chances of it. Rather, an “eliminate all drug competition” headline would probably read: 1 dead, 3 wounded after shots fired into rural homes…. .

I

agree. IF to boost their income stream, they'd done like quite a few have, around here, and moved into Meth and/or Heroin, that is where I could see more danger coming into play. Meth, more-so, than Heroin. Meth is unlike anything I've ever seen. It makes folks very unpredictable, and they feel like they're, superhuman.

Good point about meth drastically increasing the undpredictable danger level.

As you implied, there is no evidence of meth involvement. This, combined with the not particularly large scale and probably not truly lucrative aspects of the MJ operation seems to eliminate a drug motive (Cartels overkill an exception). But...no evidence of Cartel interest in the MJ either.

 

[kaykay543]

Maybe that could support a motivation of:

"I am a large scale and very aggressive meth / pill dealer. I think any competing drug (in this case apparently hi grade marijuana) could reduce the demand for the drugs I deal. So, I warned the potential competition, then eliminated it".

Though this is defiantly possible, the intimate knowledge the perpetrators had would seem to reduce the chances of it. Rather, a “eliminate all drug competition” headline would probably read: 1 dead, 3 wounded after shots fired into rural homes

what if one or more of the murderers was a meth addict? Meth causes extreme aggression and enables people to do things they would normally never do. Think thoughts they would normally never think.

Maybe that could support a motivation of:

"I am a large scale and very aggressive meth / pill dealer. I think any competing drug (in this case apparently hi grade marijuana) could reduce the demand for the drugs I deal. So, I warned the potential competition, then eliminated it".

Though this is defiantly possible, the intimate knowledge the perpetrators had would seem to reduce the chances of it. Rather, a “eliminate all drug competition” headline would probably read: 1 dead, 3 wounded after shots fired into rural homes…. .

What if the murderer/s were meth addicts? Meth causes extreme aggression. Enables people to think and do things they would normally never do. The natural progression is opiates and then meth since it’s cheaper and lasts longer.

 

[rsd1200]

Good point. My guess is that a certain number of substance users have "graduated" to meth, thus reducing demand for hi grade marijuana. Meanwhile, the remaining hi grade marijuana aficionados have many sources from which to obtain it, thus further reducing the price.

In the end, I don't think the family's MJ operation was the motive. The size of the operation was at best mid level commercial- and that maybe a stretch. Likewise, the earnings from the operation was not high (at least in my impression). Though Cartels have the resources and the willingness for over kill violence, they usually boast of the punishment to further intimidate rivals. In this case, there have been no boastings etc.

I agree. IF to boost their income stream, they'd done like quite a few have, around here, and moved into Meth and/or Heroin, that is where I could see more danger coming into play. Meth, more-so, than Heroin. Meth is unlike anything I've ever seen. It makes folks very unpredictable, and they feel like they're, superhuman.

From one of the articles I've been reading, these same folks likely would never be like this w/o Meth;

Pharmacologically, crystal meth can produce both the motivation and skill to engage in military-like activities; it activates neurochemical pathways that increase aggressive drive, as well as paranoid tendencies (Sekine et al., 2006). Both of these are accentuated by the sleep deprivation that accompanies chronic meth use. The combination of aggression, hypervigilance, and sleeplessness produced by crystal meth can help fuel behavior that looks very much like the mission-focused behavior of small, elite military units.

Crystal methamphetamine use among American Indian and White youth in Appalachia: Social context, masculinity, and desistance

Just to clear things up--I am the one that posted they lived together in the trailer. This is what I was told but I cannot give a source here on WS. So I apologize for that. No they did not remarry as far as I know. To ME she is not really an "ex" girlfriend (I guess that still makes her an ex wife) as she was clearly back in a relationship with CR1 as shown on her Facebook posts.

I am not sure I would put much faith in BJM statements. Her statements about that morning are IMO very inconsistent.

I do have some history/experience with one of the families in this case so I am trying to be careful

I agree, I'd not call her an ex-girlfriend. Ex-wife, yeah. I was just going by her FB status. I'd heard others say they'd found he and Garry in CR1's bedroom, but I honestly could not lay my hands on it or remember if it was in MSM at this point. I too find BJM's statements inconsistent, but, they are all we have to go on at this point. If it's not in MSM, we can't post it. No need to be sorry, I've done the same thing...

 

[rsd1200]

I don't know what I did above, just sort it out guys. I'm sorry. See, I make lots of mistakes.

 

[rsd1200]

What if the murderer/s were meth addicts? Meth causes extreme aggression. Enables people to think and do things they would normally never do. The natural progression is opiates and then meth since it’s cheaper and lasts longer.

I've wondered about this. The Rs had their fair share of folks who they butted heads with, for lack of a better phrase, and, another poster mentioned that her sis said she thought the killers were afraid of the Rs. They could've had contact with some meth users, who were not going to be made out to be punks, or p*ssies.

 

[kaykay543]

I agree. IF to boost their income stream, they'd done like quite a few have, around here, and moved into Meth and/or Heroin, that is where I could see more danger coming into play. Meth, more-so, than Heroin. Meth is unlike anything I've ever seen. It makes folks very unpredictable, and they feel like they're, superhuman.

From one of the articles I've been reading, these same folks likely would never be like this w/o Meth;


Crystal methamphetamine use among American Indian and White youth in Appalachia: Social context, masculinity, and desistance


I agree, I'd not call her an ex-girlfriend. Ex-wife, yeah. I was just going by her FB status. I'd heard others say they'd found he and Garry in CR1's bedroom, but I honestly could not lay my hands on it or remember if it was in MSM at this point. I too find BJM's statements inconsistent, but, they are all we have to go on at this point. If it's not in MSM, we can't post it. No need to be sorry, I've done the same thing...

There were drag marks in blood into the bedroom. But even if he was in the bedroom; it doesn’t mean he lived there. Maybe that is where a safe was located? Maybe he was going for a gun? Maybe the murders put him and GR there? He’s the only one that the autopsy says was awake and had defensive wounds on his arm.

 

[Cryptic]

What if the murderer/s were meth addicts? Meth causes extreme aggression. Enables people to think and do things they would normally never do.

That is a real possibility. It might be best to examine a possible drug motive with two general types of perpetrators:
-Committed by people not strung out on meth.
-Committed by enraged meth heads.

The skill of the attacks and knowledge would seem to eliminate meth heads as there was horrific violence, but it was also very focused and the attacks seemed well planned rather than largely impulsive.

 

[kaykay543]

That is a real possibility. It might be best to examine a possible drug motive with two general types of perpetrators:
-Committed by people not strung out on meth.
-Committed by enraged meth heads.

The skill of the attacks and knowledge would seem to eliminate meth heads as there was horrific violence, but it was also very focused and the attacks seemed well planned rather than largely impulsive.

Meth use also causes obsession and obsessive thoughts. I also think it was planned. But I think an obsessed meth addict could do it. It checks a lot of boxes for me. There is an online pic of one person with obvious meth sores all over their face.

 

[rsd1200]

There were drag marks in blood into the bedroom. But even if he was in the bedroom; it doesn’t mean he lived there. Maybe that is where a safe was located? Maybe he was going for a gun? Maybe the murders put him and GR there? He’s the only one that the autopsy says was awake and had defensive wounds on his arm.

There was a safe in CR1's but it doesn't appear to have been the main goal. A copy of the evidence slip has been made available to the public to view. I don't remember if it was in MSM or not. I have see jt though.

 

[rsd1200]

That is a real possibility. It might be best to examine a possible drug motive with two general types of perpetrators:
-Committed by people not strung out on meth.
-Committed by enraged meth heads.

The skill of the attacks and knowledge would seem to eliminate meth heads as there was horrific violence, but it was also very focused and the attacks seemed well planned rather than largely impulsive.

Just because someone is a chronic meth user doesn't mean they are consistently enraged or out of their mind. I've seen people function at high levels on that stuff. It's like the purest Cocaine, only multiply that by 10. When you see the pitiful mug shots, that is when they've gone on a bender and sleep is no longer a part of their lives(also a dangerous period). Someone who is functioning on Meth, as a member of society, could use, possibly while planning or committing this crime, and I'd not be surprised that they could pulled it off. Someone on a bender, who is to the point of shooting at Leprechauns, climbing out of their microwave? No. Though they might mistake you for a tall Leprechaun.

 

[rsd1200]

Meth use also causes obsession and obsessive thoughts. I also think it was planned. But I think an obsessed meth addict could do it. It checks a lot of boxes for me. There is an online pic of one person with obvious meth sores all over their face.

BBM
I think one or more, could too.

Tonight, I ran across a friend who I'd not quizzed about this case. Thus far, most say, off the bat; Someone sought, and got, payback. This was personal. Same response tonight. Someone had a vendetta against them, and they punished them. Possibly to make a point, too.

This wasn't spur of the moment, they sat around and thought about this, played it over, obsessed about it, tossed about how to cover their tracks, etc...

DeWine reiterated that he expected it would be “a lengthy investigation” requiring a large amount of "old-fashioned police work" to close.

Pike County, Rhoden family: Scam artist using Pike County massacre, DeWine says

"This was an old-fashioned, calculated massacre of eight human beings," DeWine said.

Ohio AG: Executions were "old-fashioned, calculated massacre" - CBS News

Someone hated these folks. Why?

 

[Cryptic]

Just because someone is a chronic meth user doesn't mean they are consistently enraged or out of their mind. I've seen people function at high levels on that stuff. It's like the purest Cocaine, only multiply that by 10. When you see the pitiful mug shots, that is when they've gone on a bender and sleep is no longer a part of their lives(also a dangerous period). Someone who is functioning on Meth, as a member of society, could use, possibly while planning or committing this crime, and I'd not be surprised that they could pulled it off. Someone on a bender, who is to the point of shooting at Leprechauns, climbing out of their microwave? No. Though they might mistake you for a tall Leprechaun.

Thanks for the very good insights on meth usage.

Now that you mention it, your points match what I have seen with other substances. I know a chronic alcoholic who when not on a bender, is a very high functioning senior manager. Likewise, I knew an opioid user who, though won't be mistaken for a senior manager, was pretty high functioning when he was "managing" his usage- and he almost always managed it well.

Honestly, I have never been around a meth user and just presumed that they all went "leprechaun" all the time or were too strung out after seeing leprechauns to function well. As you pointed out, that is a stereotype.