OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #35 *Arrests*

[Betty P]

I expect the video footage of the vehicles entering the farm was taken by an enterprising member of the public with their cell phone, who quickly made a deal and sold it to Fox. People are very alert to this possibility now, and always pull out their phone to film anything interesting. I expect it was the same with the BW arrest.

If there'd been a news crew, they'd have showed some footage of the reporter telling the story.

Will have to go back and check, but I recall seeing live video with a Fox 19 reporter at the scene. He was interviewing some of the neighbors who lived next to Flying W Farms about the arrests.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Just finished listening to Tricia's podcast, it was very good. She and the panel discussed the Rhoden case. Everyone is horrified at the extreme and frightening mentality of the Wagner family. Their obsession with stalking, planning and executing the Rhoden/Gilley family is nearly unprecedented. They will cover the case again in future podcasts.

I wasn't shocked because I knew in my heart long ago that the W's did this and why they did it. But I was stunned at the amount of time they put in stalking the R's to learn their habits.

If indeed they killed KR because he went to CR1's home to shower before leaving for work every morning then that means the W's had to be watching CR1's 24/7.

In other words if KR arrived at 5:00 AM every morning then the W's had to be sitting out side the property to know that. In the wintertime to boot since the R's were killed in April. That took some dedication to their goal. Just imagine one or more of them sitting in a car watching those houses all night long waiting for lights to go out and for KR to arrive. Maybe taking notes. DR's place too. DS's erratic movements must have given them fits given his "I was supposed to stay the night with KR". And he was right, had he stayed he would have been victim #9. DR working that double was a huge problem for them. It makes me think that JW ran over there to pick SW up at 10:30 PM just to get the scoop from HR as to why DR wasn't home yet.

One thing I never thought about in all this time is if KR arrived every morning at 5:00 AM to shower, maybe CR1 left the door unlocked for him so he wouldn't have to get up and open it that early.

Also the W's buying a "Bug detector" bothers me. They would not have used it to try to detect "bugs" in CR1's or the other homes. That would have been something they bought to try to detect "bugs" in their own homes or vehicles. Did they think the R's had planted a "Bug" or listening device in their home or vehicles? Were they really that paranoid? What were they afraid of? Just something to think about while we wait for answers.

I really hope their trials are televised but I am not sure what channel i could get them on. I will have to rely on those of you in Ohio to give me the info on it.

JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

From what has been released so far, it seems Gary was killed because he was with Chris Sr, no other reason. Kenneth was killed because he would go to one of the homes (not sure which) to shower early in the morning-so he was killed to keep the bodies from being discovered too early.

Not so sure Gary was there when Christopher was killed. It was reported that Christopher was decomposed more then the others. Seems that killing Gary was to keep him quiet till the others were killed.

Also I think / believe that it was planned that way. I don’t think george wanted ti deal with both Christopher & Gary at the same time.

 

[taximama24]

They could've bought the bug detectors expecting they would be on the suspect list and knowing that is not something they could buy after the murders were discovered without throwing up some red flags. They had to assume they would be suspects at least initially merely because SW was conveniently not there when she normally would have been.

 

[kaykay543]

They could've bought the bug detectors expecting they would be on the suspect list and knowing that is not something they could buy after the murders were discovered without throwing up some red flags. They had to assume they would be suspects at least initially merely because SW was conveniently not there when she normally would have been.

People on drugs/selling drugs (especially meth) are paranoid all the time. they may have bought them to see if the Rhodens were being bugged or they may have bought them to make sure their own place wasn't bugged. Or it could be both. I think some are underestimating the "undercurrent of drugs"

I was just re reading a couple articles that JW was interviewed in. Just makes me sick!

Jake Wagner, 23, said there's a 50/50 chance he's Kylie's father. He and Hanna Rhoden dated for nearly three years before they welcomed her half-sister, Sophia, now 2 1/2 years old. If Wagner is her father, that would mean her half-sister would become her full sister.

And there is nothing Wagner would like more, he said, fondly recalling how he pulled the tiny sock off her itty, bitty foot shortly after she was born on April 17. He was checking for a hammer index toe: A Wagner family trait.

He's almost sure, he said, that he saw that bend. It's the hope he holds onto these days.

But if he isn't Kylie's dad, and if the courts deem another man suitable to care for her, he will step aside -- at least partially.

"I'm not going to take her," Wagner said. "But I will want mandatory visitation in order to see her regularly."

Get Access

Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'

 

[Betty P]

On Tricia's Websleuth radio podcast last night, Gitana1 was discussing the psycho-pathology of "enmeshed families". She discussed it in relation to Chris Watt's family trying to intervene and stop him from accepting the plea bargain to avoid the DP, claiming he was innocent of killing his daughters. Later, when discussing the Rhoden case, she said it sounded like the Wagner family was another case of an "enmeshed family".

Following are some links about enmeshed family systems and how their dysfunction comes from parents and even grandparents seeking to control children's lives to an abnormal degree. They don't see a separation or have boundaries between themselves and their children. The Wagners seem to be a very extreme example of this dysfunctional family and understanding those dynamics helps outsiders understand how they ended up plotting and carrying out these horrible murders and why they were so driven to take custody of Sophia.

I hope Gitana1 drops in here and discusses this with us.

Enmeshment

The concept of enmeshment was introduced by family therapist Salvador Minuchin in the 1970s. Typically, boundaries that help determine how close family members are to each other, as well as who participates in specific family matters, exist within a family system. When these boundaries blur or are not clearly defined, the result may be enmeshment, a situation in which family members are close to an extent that it becomes difficult for each member to establish the level of independence considered healthy by most mental health and family therapy experts.

While many families value closeness and intimacy, enmeshment goes beyond the bonds of a close family. Enmeshment may mean a parent centers their actions or emotions on the child(ren) and their successes or mistakes, attempts to know and direct all of the child’s thoughts or feelings, and relies heavily on the child(ren) for emotional support.

Enmeshment can be problematic because it can prevent people from developing a sense of self, engaging in peer relationships, and learning to self-regulate emotions. Children of enmeshed families may also experience diminished distress tolerance and find it difficult to assert themselves later in life.

Can a Family Be Too Close?

 

[taximama24]

My hunch is they will try to get GW4 to crack first, of the W's he has the weakest bond to the motive and the R's.

I didn't quote it, but good call on the poster who referenced the statutory rape charge as the threat HR was likely using to ward off the W's advances for more custody. I'm guessing (by LM maybe?) that it was probably mentioned to LE at some point as a point of contention between the W's and R's and that is why LE tacked that charge on to JW, just as a little cherry on top, an LE smirk if you will (because really, if he's going down for the death penalty for murdering 8 people, serving time for statutory rape is kindof inconsequential).

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Yes! Good idea! I thought she'd maybe pop in soon. I hope for a separate trial for each if it makes it more likely they will receive the max. I think that it might be possible that the boys might try to broker a plea for LWOP in exchange for testifying against their parents. I am not so sure that the Ws have been one big happy family prior to this, nor after.

BBM
One thing I am sure of is they had no lives. Did none of these people have a job they had to go to everyday? They couldn't have given the amount of time they spent running surveillance on the R's. With my busy schedule I have trouble scheduling an hour a week to watch a TV program. Most of the time I miss it and have to watch it the next day on the internet. Did they have no job, no friends or family that dropped by to visit, no hobbies? Just unbelievable.

And how did JW get his brother invested in his problems enough to get his help killing 8 people? If I broached something like that to one of my brothers or sisters I would be on a fast train to a mental hospital. I can't even imagine a scenario where I could get my son involved. Wow is all I have to say.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

People on drugs/selling drugs (especially meth) are paranoid all the time. they may have bought them to see if the Rhodens were being bugged or they may have bought them to make sure their own place wasn't bugged. Or it could be both. I think some are underestimating the "undercurrent of drugs"

I was just re reading a couple articles that JW was interviewed in. Just makes me sick!

Jake Wagner, 23, said there's a 50/50 chance he's Kylie's father. He and Hanna Rhoden dated for nearly three years before they welcomed her half-sister, Sophia, now 2 1/2 years old. If Wagner is her father, that would mean her half-sister would become her full sister.

And there is nothing Wagner would like more, he said, fondly recalling how he pulled the tiny sock off her itty, bitty foot shortly after she was born on April 17. He was checking for a hammer index toe: A Wagner family trait.

He's almost sure, he said, that he saw that bend. It's the hope he holds onto these days.

But if he isn't Kylie's dad, and if the courts deem another man suitable to care for her, he will step aside -- at least partially.

"I'm not going to take her," Wagner said. "But I will want mandatory visitation in order to see her regularly."

Get Access

Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'

Yes, that's so disturbing to read and, as many guessed, was the reason why the surviving children were initially not placed with family members and their locations kept secret. IMO, that indicates LE was focused on Jake Wagner in the first days after the murders.

Also agree about not underestimating the "undercurrent of drugs". JMO, drugs and the drug/MJ trade were also part of the dynamic between these families. It also wouldn't be surprising if JW and others in his family were using meth, feeding their paranoia.

 

[Elley Mae]

7/29/2016

Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'

Hanna Rhoden and Wagner shared custody of Sophia, who was supposed to be with her mom that fateful Friday evening, he said. But Wagner picked her up a day earlier than normal: "I reckon we missed it by just hours."

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM
They kinda were, for a while, but now they're livin' at the Crossbar Hotel. Quite the change in digs.

RSD I think you were right about one experienced shooter and one not experienced. I am thinking JW and GW were the non experienced ones and hesitated.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Why were Kenneth and Gary Rhoden murdered in regards to the custody issue?

One of my thoughts, is because GR was just there, and possibly that KR drove by as they were leaving one of the locations, or, it is possible that they tried to make this appear that KR did this. He was shot only one time. A murder/suicide. Then again, it is possible they tried very hard to make this look like a hit, on the family, maybe b/c of the weed ops, but it didn't float.

On another note; It seems that everyone did probably think, in the confusion, and horror that day, that poor KR was at work and just couldn't be reached by phone. Until around lunch time, when he didn't call them back.

 

[IQuestion]

Can we discuss whether the 4W's had a "history of violence" in the distant past?? Geez, considering how AW and BigGWIII fully immerse themselves into the lives of their adult sons....(gheesh, kind of makes one
wonder how they reacted if an elementary teacher ever gave one of their sons a low grade, huh?)
IE, were they the types who "reacted quickly to personal slights" or did their thoughts go to dark places in the past? Did they over react at sporting events? Did they have any friends in the community? Perhaps locals will reflect on their past interactions with them and hopefully give us some insight. (Doesn't have to be specific.... keep your privacy, please.)

 

[Elley Mae]

BBM
One thing I am sure of is they had no lives. Did none of these people have a job they had to go to everyday? They couldn't have given the amount of time they spent running surveillance on the R's. With my busy schedule I have trouble scheduling an hour a week to watch a TV program. Most of the time I miss it and have to watch it the next day on the internet. Did they have no job, no friends or family that dropped by to visit, no hobbies? Just unbelievable.

And how did JW get his brother invested in his problems enough to get his help killing 8 people? If I broached something like that to one of my brothers or sisters I would be on a fast train to a mental hospital. I can't even imagine a scenario where I could get my son involved. Wow is all I have to say.

JMO

There are some sick families out there, I know 1 or 2 that would throw a innocent person under the bus to save a family member/s.

 

[Betty P]

BBM
One thing I am sure of is they had no lives. Did none of these people have a job they had to go to everyday? They couldn't have given the amount of time they spent running surveillance on the R's. With my busy schedule I have trouble scheduling an hour a week to watch a TV program. Most of the time I miss it and have to watch it the next day on the internet. Did they have no job, no friends or family that dropped by to visit, no hobbies? Just unbelievable.

And how did JW get his brother invested in his problems enough to get his help killing 8 people? If I broached something like that to one of my brothers or sisters I would be on a fast train to a mental hospital. I can't even imagine a scenario where I could get my son involved. Wow is all I have to say.

JMO

See my links above about enmeshed families. Wagners are an extreme example of a family unit that spent all it's spare time together, thinks together, has no boundaries between each other. If the parents want something done, then the whole family goes along. What was good for one was good for all and vice versa. JW had a job driving a truck, but it doesn't seem the parents worked outside the home. They all lived together, parents with kids and grandkids.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Why were Kenneth and Gary Rhoden murdered in regards to the custody issue?

It has been rumored Kenneth went to his brother Chris's home every morning around 5:00 AM to take a shower before heading to work since he lived in a camper and may not have had running water hooked up to it. They must have been afraid he would interrupt them in their cleaning up of the crime scenes. Gary lived with Chris so was just there.

JMO

 

[katikaboom]

They could've bought the bug detectors expecting they would be on the suspect list and knowing that is not something they could buy after the murders were discovered without throwing up some red flags. They had to assume they would be suspects at least initially merely because SW was conveniently not there when she normally would have been.

That's what i think, too. They clearly thought ahead enough to get rid of shell casings and to make homemade silencers. That kind of mind would expect LEO to bug them, too.
on the other hand, is anyone else getting the impression of meth paranoia?

 

[Renee110]

She's a piece of work, that's for sure. AW was selling her Kuhn Kuhne pigs for cheap when they were trying to sell out. Real cheap! I think it's possible, that had they both not passed, both grandfathers would have been in jail tonight too. While I thought these folks may have done this, it's mind boggling that it would be solely over custody. I still think it could have been a deterioration of business, and friendships, and HMR leaves their son,which means they lose control of S. and potentially another child.

In an article that was posted in a previous post, DeWine said that custody was "a" motive, not "the" motive which leads me to believe there are other motives that haven't been disclosed yet. JMO

 

[rsd1200]

People on drugs/selling drugs (especially meth) are paranoid all the time. they may have bought them to see if the Rhodens were being bugged or they may have bought them to make sure their own place wasn't bugged. Or it could be both. I think some are underestimating the "undercurrent of drugs"

I was just re reading a couple articles that JW was interviewed in. Just makes me sick!

Jake Wagner, 23, said there's a 50/50 chance he's Kylie's father. He and Hanna Rhoden dated for nearly three years before they welcomed her half-sister, Sophia, now 2 1/2 years old. If Wagner is her father, that would mean her half-sister would become her full sister.

And there is nothing Wagner would like more, he said, fondly recalling how he pulled the tiny sock off her itty, bitty foot shortly after she was born on April 17. He was checking for a hammer index toe: A Wagner family trait.

He's almost sure, he said, that he saw that bend. It's the hope he holds onto these days.

But if he isn't Kylie's dad, and if the courts deem another man suitable to care for her, he will step aside -- at least partially.

"I'm not going to take her," Wagner said. "But I will want mandatory visitation in order to see her regularly."

Get Access


Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'

BBM
This is another thing about the Ws throughout this that has bothered me, it seemed they were so confident, and sure that things must go their way, that they could get an order to see another man's child. I could see, if he had no part in it, wanting the sisters to grow up, having play dates, and seeing one another but to say it like that? A child that may be no blood kin to him? I WILL WANT MANDATORY VISITATION? It still, alone, didn't make them murderers but it showed they felt entitled to getting what they wanted. Despicable.

 

[rsd1200]

That's what i think, too. They clearly thought ahead enough to get rid of shell casings and to make homemade silencers. That kind of mind would expect LEO to bug them, too.
on the other hand, is anyone else getting the impression of meth paranoia?

Looking at JW's, mugshot, yes. Either that, or he's the only one with somewhat of a conscience. He's got a "look" about him. Not so much paranoia, but Meth would give them the confidence, amp up their emotions, (hatred in this case), and give them the extra speed to pull this off. I'm not sure they used it, but it wouldn't surprise me at all.