OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #35 *Arrests*

[IQuestion]

Well well well!
Am I reading this right???
All the way to the bottom...look who is at the Pike County Jail!!??

Good morning FLATBUSH, An accomplice?? (sorry to post before 3rd cup of coffee, ugh)

 

[Willow Knight]

**Photo of GWiii Billy Wagner in court as he waived extradition to Polk County Ohio.
Interesting tattoos. Are the 3 triangles a W? idk
Dr. Hillary Lake, WCPO on Twitter **** Quoted from alwaysonmymind

Interesting comments under this tweet.

Especially the comment on Nov 14th by KA

 

[rsd1200]

From the article, it seems JW must have concocted some kind of fake custody document with forged signatures in early April in his first attempt to force HMR to give him full custody of S. Apparently the grannies and other Wags helped forge signatures, etc. Perhaps they were forging signatures of other Rhoden family members, falsely saying HMR wasn't a good parent, living conditions were poor, etc. In the actual custody filing, JW says that he tried to convince HMR two weeks before, but I have a feeling his threats and false allegations against HMR had been going on for some time. Seems more likely this was what the fight on UHR was about. DR and CR1 would have known what was going on, Manleys, too. If only LE had done something about the Wagners the night of the big fight, arrested them or something, these murders might not have happened. Hindsight is 20/20, I suppose, but...

They'd already been planning to kill them all though. I think it was to show he had custody, and to get S across the Canadian border. They were also stopped several times along the way too, and probably had to show papers. All they needed was something with HMR's signature and the forgery could easily have been done. Newsome did it didn't she? That name would be just any other name at the border. Still have not had time to read much. Dagnabit!

 

[pepper 34]

Haven't posted in forever, but have quietly lurked in the background, checking in on all the cold and new cases... Beyond overjoyed to see arrests in this case! While I always believed JW was involved, possibly with his brother and/or a friend as an accomplice, I didn't expect to learn that Dad, Mom, and the Grannies were in on it - holy carp! Sick, sick family.

I'd be interested in others' views as to the "code" they adhered to during these brutal senseless murders, which appeared to be that no children were to be killed in the attacks. The waiting until HR gave birth, in my view, was not because the baby could possibly be JW's, as they spared the other 2 who were no relation to them. No. It appears that in their sick & twisted minds, they told themselves that the killing of children (including very likely being strong opponents of abortion) was a bar too low, despite the fact that they were willing to cause lifelong unimaginable trauma to these children by killing their loved ones in their presence and robbing them of a parental relationship! Or could it be that they convinced themselves that they were actually "saving" these children from something??

Regardless, there is NOTHING the R family could have done - or the Wagner's imagined that they'd done - that could ever-ever come close to justifying these acts of pure evil that the Wagner's committed against them. And yet the Wagner's saw themselves as the better people and parents of children! Wow.

How did an entire family jointly, with no descenders, dehumanize and vilify a family to a degree and level that these acts of evil vengeance were even momentarily considered to be an option? I can wrap my head around one or even two people in a family having severely warped thinking, but the whole family? Did any of them have friends outside of their family or were they isolated among themselves? And, if the latter is true, that tells me that there are some very deep dark family secrets in the Wagner family's background...

Respectfully, I'm a little bit more jaded when it comes to the Wagners than you are. I think the Wags did wait for the little one to be born before murdering the mother because there was a chance, in their minds, that the baby was JW's. If so, not only does it carry on the illustrious Wagner family name but it also leaves another inheritor behind. I thought, and still do think, the land was important, too. Didn't the grandchildren inherit the land and anything else of value? (I'm not sure but I think so.) If the baby was JW's... that would be half the inheritance of the 4 total grandchildren left behind. According to many along with the Wags, "children are everything" but, imo, for the Wags, that means their children. I know it's been said that the land wasn't worth much but I disagree. Imo, it was a plan for the future. And, other "people's" kids can't be killed while leaving only their two potential children alive. (But, I think they would have spared the kids because they aren't witnesses and never can be.) Other people's kids might just not make it to maturity. You never know; accidents; even fires!, can strike at any time. Wouldn't it just be the feather in the Wag's caps to end up with every single acre of the Rhoden's land as a "down-the-road" payoff?
ETA: I still believe, too, that DR's moving into that really nice home with the acreage included was something that set "someone" off to no end. Now, I suppose it was AW. Even though the murders had long been in the works, I bet that threw firewood on AW's already burning temper. How dare DR end up moving with HR and CR into such a nice place. We'll just see about that... enjoy it while you can, sweetie, because it's all going to end real soon. Some people just don't know their place...!

 

[rsd1200]

That story is legend in the miniature horse world. I saw Blue Boy one of the last times he showed at The Ohio State Fair.

I was told it was over the horse biz. I think when he left was when they quit showing miniature horses. Showing horses is a ton of work and very physical. I was told his dad was no longer physically able to show and with RW gone; they stopped showing. RW was the one that got burned trying to get Blue Boy out of the barn.

http://www.amha.org/docs/default-source/default-document-library/flyingw_febmar2007.pdf

His farm is very well known and his horses are AMHR National Champions. His daughter KW is now showing too and is listed as owner of many of the horses. He didn't show much at last years nationals which is very out of the norm.

Most horse people are still scared to say much. At least in the group I am in. RW is a very intimidating man. He pretty much got away with things no one else could. I normally don't back down from anyone; but in this case I knew the threat was real and not just something thrown out there. It was a very uncomfortable week

Just to clarify I am talking about the son RW not the daughter!

I have horse showing kin on both sides of my family, and yes, it is time consuming, and expensive, but they seemed to enjoy the work. I enjoyed watching the shows, but, I just rode my own horses for pleasure. I've seen where RAW's daughter has shown their horses. Iirc, it was she who made a comment about coming to visit Flying W, it was after the murders, and AW dissuaded her.

BBM
I noticed the horsey set was not saying too much negative on the Flying W FB site, but that was yesterday. Haven't checked today.

 

[IQuestion]

Just jumping in....I don't think this was a mistake....I think it was just "ill-timed" and "Jakey" was ready to CUT A DEAL, PLEAD GUILTY AND SPILL THE BEANS ON EVERYONE!! After all, "he was the baby of the family" and the center/impetus of all interactions between W's and R's. I think the prosecution, put the brakes on his deal/court appearance (to enter a plea) because they hadn't expected Jakey to be so willing..... well ya' know that happens to most Mama's boys, the first night alone and away at camp. (Okay, so I was a little snarky with that comment, but the first night in jail can be quite a shock to a spoiled and entitled young adult. After all, everyone he had ever had to "rescue" him from all his past mistakes was already in jail....including both of his grandmas, go figure!!!)
Pike County massacre: Hearing canceled for Wagner son

 

[IceIce9]

I just listen to the press conference again.

“The last piece of significant physical evidence on October 30th of this year” who provided the tip that led to discovering that piece of evidence? And where was this evidence!

 

[pepper 34]

Just jumping in....I don't think this was a mistake....I think it was just "ill-timed" and "Jakey" was ready to CUT A DEAL, PLEAD GUILTY AND SPILL THE BEANS ON EVERYONE!! After all, "he was the baby of the family" and the center/impetus of all interactions between W's and R's. I think the prosecution, put the brakes on his deal/court appearance (to enter a plea) because they hadn't expected Jakey to be so willing..... well ya' know that happens to most Mama's boys, the first night alone and away at camp. (Okay, so I was a little snarky with that comment, but the first night in jail can be quite a shock to a spoiled and entitled young adult. After all, everyone he had ever had to "rescue" him from all his past mistakes was already in jail....including both of his grandmas, go figure!!!)
Pike County massacre: Hearing canceled for Wagner son

I had the same thought. I hate that we'll have to wait a minimum of 2 years to find out. Maybe more, similar "indicators" will be apparent as the months go by.

 

[pepper 34]

*

 

[Satchie]

I just got the feeling as I read that entry that they waited until after the birth of Hanna's baby before they massacred the whole family!!

I agree, the timing of the killings so soon after the birth of HMR's baby seems deliberate. I think it was probably noted by LE when investigating the crime, and strengthened the theory that the whole massacre was centered on HMR.

I don't know anything about paternity testing in Ohio, could JW have forced HMR to get a paternity test on her baby? My sense is, likely not. Note that paternity tests can be done on unborn babies, and she refused to do that and just left the father's name off the birth certificate. She likely didn't want to share custody with whomever was the father, and had probably been assured by her family that she wouldn't need child support.

The W's might have been determined not to miss out on a moment of this child's life if she was, in fact, JWs. In fact, they were facing the likelihood that they might never have any contact with 'their' child at all. The conflict between HMR/JW and therefore the families could have been as much centred on paternity testing this baby, as on custody of SW, since they began planning the massacre when HMR was about 4 months pregnant, ie around the time JW may have learned of it.

 

[rigsby2]

It's difficult to tell if this is actually a wedding band, tattoo, or some sort of flexible band - but it makes it look as if JW is wearing a band to indicate marriage, doesn't it? Can't imagine how that girl must be feeling....

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I had the same thought. I hate that we'll have to wait a minimum of 2 years to find out. Maybe more, similar "indicators" will be apparent as the months go by.

Hi there Pepper.

I havent been able to read all of the latest but are any of them going to have a preliminary hearing? Tia. The reason I ask in prelims we do get a glimpse of some of the evidence during those type of hearings. Many turn into mini trials. Although I wouldnt be surprised if the defendants waive the PH altogether plus waive their right to a speedy trial.

As far as having to wait two years imo these death penalty cases won't come to trial for 3 or 4 years at least and maybe even longer. Imo

Nowadays death penalty cases on average are taking around 4 years with some not coming to trial up to 6 years.

So I think we will have to wait a long time before we see the Rhoden family finally see justice.

Jmo

 

[Roxy Shayne]

Mount Olive Community Church Community Lucasville Ohio Oh

This must be FW's church. The address is Camp Creek Road, Lucasville, OH.

 

[pepper 34]

It's difficult to tell if this is actually a wedding band, tattoo, or some sort of flexible band - but it makes it look as if JW is wearing a band to indicate marriage, doesn't it? Can't imagine how that girl must be feeling....
View attachment 156085

I tried enlarging and changing the coloring. But it does look like a ring that's compressing the surrounding tissues... a ring that's too small for his finger? I'm sure someone would know how to do this better so the whole photo would not be so small.

 

[Elley Mae]

I tried enlarging and changing the coloring. But it does look like a ring that's compressing the surrounding tissues... a ring that's too small for his finger? I'm sure someone would know how to do this better so the whole photo would not be so small.

Exactly what I see.

 

[pepper 34]

Hi there Pepper.

I havent been able to read all of the latest but are any of them going to have a preliminary hearing? Tia. The reason I ask in prelims we do get a glimpse of some of the evidence during those type of hearings. Many turn into mini trials. Although I wouldnt be surprised if the defendants waive the PH altogether plus waive their right to a speedy trial.

As far as having to wait two years imo these death penalty cases won't come to trial for 3 or 4 years at least and maybe even longer. Imo

Nowadays death penalty cases on average are taking around 4 years with some not coming to trial up to 6 years.

So I think we will have to wait a long time before we see the Rhoden family finally see justice.

Jmo

I don't know much about the legal time line or schedules for events of this case at all. I hope the Rhodens, Manleys and Gilleys don't have to wait that long but I'm sure you're right in what you say about the time involved. It's going to be awfully hard on the families and I hope some of the older members are still here to see justice done.

 

[Elley Mae]

I agree, the timing of the killings so soon after the birth of HMR's baby seems deliberate. I think it was probably noted by LE when investigating the crime, and strengthened the theory that the whole massacre was centered on HMR.

I don't know anything about paternity testing in Ohio, could JW have forced HMR to get a paternity test on her baby? My sense is, likely not. Note that paternity tests can be done on unborn babies, and she refused to do that and just left the father's name off the birth certificate. She likely didn't want to share custody with whomever was the father, and had probably been assured by her family that she wouldn't need child support.

The W's might have been determined not to miss out on a moment of this child's life if she was, in fact, JWs. In fact, they were facing the likelihood that they might never have any contact with 'their' child at all. The conflict between HMR/JW and therefore the families could have been as much centred on paternity testing this baby, as on custody of SW, since they began planning the massacre when HMR was about 4 months pregnant, ie around the time JW may have learned of it.

Oh the timing.

 

[Elley Mae]

Does anyone remember when Dana & family (chris jr hanna) moved into her home. ?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I would like to center the focus of everyone on here on the "how" emotionally this was done. We know the W's are hunters and well used to killing animals but we are assuming that none of the W's have killed a human being before. With that assumption in mind, how did they go from house to house, looking into the faces and in some cases eyes of human beings and pull the trigger? How did they disassociate themselves from the horror of what they were doing? Did they keep a perception in mind that these were just "big game" animals to be hunted as trophies?

I think it is that house to house thing that more than anything spotlights how gruesome this crime was. There had to be tons of blood. How did they get past the smell of all that blood and go on to the next house? Did anyone get sick at the smell and beg off at the next house? Also CR1 being more decomposed means they had to have spent some time waiting for GR. When someone is killed it is not a pretty thing. Most people release their bladder and bowels at death. Did anyone of the four feel sickened by what they were doing?

I am not familiar with Meth or other hard drugs so I am not really sure of the effects of any such drug, if indeed they took any drugs, would have on being able to carry this through. Maybe someone else on here has that knowledge.

Also the R's were close friends at one time. Along with that friendship would come the intimacy of shared hopes and dreams for the future. As Clint Eastwood put it so well " When you kill a man you take away everything he is and everything he hopes to be." Did the W's look into the faces of the victims and feel sorrow for what they were taking from them? Compassion for those dreams being destroyed?

Lastly who on here thinks it may be possible this was not the first humans that some of the W's have killed. Because if this was their first time killing a human then they would have been quite naive as to the reality of actually watching and being responsible for a person dying. Killing 8 people your first time out would have been a rough way to start on a killing career.

Also there had to be a time lapse between houses, especially KR and the others. Did anyone of these 4 sit in the car on the ride to kill another person and think "Maybe this is wrong?"

I just cannot wrap my mind around 4 first time killers being able to stomach all the killing and what goes with it, not once but four times.

JMO

 

[skinnycat]

I wonder who stayed with little S and the little boy while the killings were taking place,someone had to have been watching them.