OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #36 *Arrests*

[taximama24]

With the GJ convened at the start of the summer, the W's knew they had moved from being the "focus" of the investigation to being close to being charged. At this point, JW was the only one in a relationship (there was that picture with the wedding ring, do we know if she came back to Ohio with them?) and SW is the only one who would end up in foster care (with half her family murdered and the other half in jail for their murders) because BW's mom is still alive. There is little to no chance her foster family would give her any letters from him or share pictures with him of her growing up or allow her to write him, etc. With him not getting the family paid lawyer, not asking for bond, and his wife nowhere to be found, I'm wondering if JW is the mole and went to LE and gave them the last thing they needed in exchange for a yet-to-be-made-public plea deal to take DP off the table and a guarantee that SW could stay with his wife so she wouldn't have every single person she's ever known ripped away from her before the tender age of 5, and that way he would not lose all contact with her forever. The arrests of the men happening away from the house, in cars at the same time, was also way too coincidental, it makes sense that JW knew it was going down at the time it was and said to GW4 "hey run up to .... with me" when he was given the go. Him being the mole is starting to make more sense to me, although even the late GW2 still makes sense in many ways to me too.

 

[GordianKnot]

Pike County massacre: Woman facing felonies is a fiercely protective matriarch

Helpful Hint: Might want to start thinking about downsizing, FW...IMO, your real estate is about to shrink to the size of a 6'x8' cell.

 

[IQuestion]

If it's electronic eavesdropping, LE may not want to tip their hand if bugs are still in place.

BETTYP Thanks for bringing this back to center....'IF THE BUGS ARE STILL IN PLACE'. Of course that makes total sense! The W4's "over the river and through the woods to grandmother's house we go" to make plans in the event of an arrest, make plans for an escape and make plans for revenge, right? I'd continue to monitor granny because she is out of jail and has a lot of moolah at her disposal. (I don't know how it feels to have an ankle monitor, but it should be a constant reminder that you are no longer "trustworthy" individual.)

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I don't know, HR's social media seemed to be full of sadness and references to partner abuse(emotional or physical, I don't know). I've often wondered why CR and FR allowed that to happen, or even DR for that matter. But they allowed her to date JW and go on vacations with the W's at a very young age.

According to a study that I believe either RSD or Betty posted, in that area (Appalachia) it is a patriarchal society where often the woman is told to stay with her husband even if she is being abused. I don't know if that is correct. It didn't seem to be so to me in today's times but it would explain why CR1 and FR did not interfere. And we don't know if the abuse was physical or verbal.

JMO

 

[Normrock]

If it's electronic eavesdropping, LE may not want to tip their hand if bugs are still in place.

I imagine all are pulled since Ws will not be getting out soon. Maybe still in FW home but she's probably a clam now.

No but FW has many rental properties, land contracts and various other interests that she makes steady income off of. All profits that are due to her large amounts of land. I think its reasonable to assume that she does infact have vast amounts of money, of which there is probably alot of that the government doesn't know she has imo

LLCs and non-profits are great ways to launder cash. Especially the church one.

 

[almond]

It’s quite possible that he took after his mother’s side or even one of his grandparents on his father’s side. My brother looks nothing like me or my dad, but looks almost exactly like my mom’s dad when he was about the same age.

I think he looks like FW and RW.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, no more JMO on this stuff. Their predatory practices were fairly obvious on the Pike County courts web site with so many entries for FW evicting people from their property over the years. This article puts it all together. I can't believe they got by with selling these "land contracts" at vastly inflated prices, charging balloon payments, etc.

A lot of suspicion also remains with the comment from one neighbor saying FW didn't care how tenants earned their money, as long as they made payments. We did a lot of speculating about that. Of course, it's difficult to prove that the W's knew if some of their tenants were involved in illegal activities.

FW was quite the hustler when it came to making a living. Assume that's where her offspring learned the same values. These aren't people who work regular jobs, but hustle any way they can with as little effort as possible.

BBM
Same way "Buy here, Pay here" car loans, and PayDay Loans, can get by with it, and it's usually folks who are not exactly flush with cash, who get stuck with those. FW became an LLC, and her own mortgage company, and probably even financed the buys. I'd bet that her legal eagles had a binding, very legal, contract written up. To folks who probably couldn't get a conventional mortgage, and wanted a little piece of land, it all looked good and sounded good until the ink had dried. As we have seen throughout this case, FW is not the only one who is playing this game. Rich get richer, poor get poorer. Rinse, repeat.

 

[Betty P]

BBM
Same way "Buy here, Pay here" car loans, and PayDay Loans, can get by with it, and it's usually folks who are not exactly flush with cash, who get stuck with those. FW became an LLC, and her own mortgage company, and probably even financed the buys. I'd bet that her legal eagles had a binding, very legal, contract written up. To folks who probably couldn't get a conventional mortgage, and wanted a little piece of land, it all looked good and sounded good until the ink had dried. As we have seen throughout this case, FW is not the only one who is playing this game. Rich get richer, poor get poorer. Rinse, repeat.

Yes, it's really awful how people signed those contracts and moved onto the land, improving it with homes, etc. When they missed a payment, they were evicted and all their improvements (mobile homes, outbuildings, etc.) had to remain with the property. Fred Wagner then jacked up the value of the property and "contracted" it out to a new buyer for tens of thousands $$ more. That's just wrong, but the Pike County prosecutor, court & judges allowed it.

I'm sure FW also had good relationships with all the sheriff's deputies who came out to evict her tenants. In retrospect, it's amazing she was even arrested in the Rhoden murders case. Perhaps they realized there was no way to avoid it.

 

[pepper 34]

It’s SAD! Preying on the poor to better yourself is one of the lowest of lows.

I think her lawyer should stop shoveling the horse pucky around about... "lived as close to the cross as anyone can." The blatant irony is blinding as it's in direct contradiction with what she claims she believes. The bible is not lacking (is extremely generous, throughout) in the number of statements, warnings and promises given when it comes to the treatment of the poor by those who are better off. As far as I'm concerned her church is just one more corrupted tax duck and if she thinks she really believes in God and his kingdom then; her biggest trial won't take place here on earth.

 

[IQuestion]

Kathleen Kane was just sentenced to prison for leaking Grand Jury information! Hmmm, guess they take that kind of stuff seriously. With that revelation, does anyone think FW will get a "hand slap."??
https://www.mcall.com/.../mc-opi-kathleen-kane-goes-to-prison-muschick-20181128-...

 

[Julia966]

I think her lawyer should stop shoveling the horse pucky around about... "lived as close to the cross as anyone can." The blatant irony is blinding as it's in direct contradiction with what she claims she believes. The bible is not lacking (is extremely generous, throughout) in the number of statements, warnings and promises given when it comes to the treatment of the poor by those who are better off. As far as I'm concerned her church is just one more corrupted tax duck and if she thinks she really believes in God and his kingdom then; her biggest trial won't take place here on earth.

Seriously. I'm surprised her attorney did not burst into flames on the spot for all the dung he was shoveling.

 

[Fayette_kid]

This is my first post here, but I've been following along since the beginning. Lots of great info gathering here! One thing that I'd like to bring up regarding those "rune" tattoos on GW3: if he got those tattoos because of the alleged "White Pride" or "White Power" associations with the symbols, what kind crew has he been running around or associating with? You normally don't just get those kind of tattoos out of the blue. Just my opinion, but I wouldn't be one bit surprised if meth ALSO had something to do with this whole thing.

 

[ab01]

Yes, it's really awful how people signed those contracts and moved onto the land, improving it with homes, etc. When they missed a payment, they were evicted and all their improvements (mobile homes, outbuildings, etc.) had to remain with the property. Fred Wagner then jacked up the value of the property and "contracted" it out to a new buyer for tens of thousands $$ more. That's just wrong, but the Pike County prosecutor, court & judges allowed it.

I'm sure FW also had good relationships with all the sheriff's deputies who came out to evict her tenants. In retrospect, it's amazing she was even arrested in the Rhoden murders case. Perhaps they realized there was no way to avoid it.

You have to keep in mind that you are hearing from people that are buying on land contract. Many times it will be allowed to do work on said properties bc they couldn't make a payment. Many people who buy on land contract are not always good at making payments. Do I think that FW probably entered into these agreements with people she knew would default? Oh i gurantee it. All the power is of the land owner in a land contract agreement. Good lesson why nobody should ever try to buy anything in this manner. Their is a differnce btwn lack of ethics and those actions that actually violate laws. Do I believe that FW is Shady and unethical? oh you betcha. Do I believe local officials were covering up for illegal business dealings? I think thats a stretch....MOO

I Also rent my starter house out and I always tell my tenants up front, I have bills to pay and I can't pay my bills if you don't pay me on time. I have no problem evicting people for not paying in a timely manner. Tenants tend to take an inch and turn it into a mile....just my experience

 

[evelezrn]

Yes, no more JMO on this stuff. Their predatory practices were fairly obvious on the Pike County courts web site with so many entries for FW evicting people from their property over the years. This article puts it all together. I can't believe they got by with selling these "land contracts" at vastly inflated prices, charging balloon payments, etc.

A lot of suspicion also remains with the comment from one neighbor saying FW didn't care how tenants earned their money, as long as they made payments. We did a lot of speculating about that. Of course, it's difficult to prove that the W's knew if some of their tenants were involved in illegal activities.

FW was quite the hustler when it came to making a living. Assume that's where her offspring learned the same values. These aren't people who work regular jobs, but hustle any way they can with as little effort as possible.

"Grifters" JMO

 

[Normrock]

I think her lawyer should stop shoveling the horse pucky around about... "lived as close to the cross as anyone can." The blatant irony is blinding as it's in direct contradiction with what she claims she believes. The bible is not lacking (is extremely generous, throughout) in the number of statements, warnings and promises given when it comes to the treatment of the poor by those who are better off. As far as I'm concerned her church is just one more corrupted tax duck and if she thinks she really believes in God and his kingdom then; her biggest trial won't take place here on earth.

I always had a problem with vendors or business people that wrapped themselves with religion. Usually their work or product was about 30% higher. Two of the biggest evils in world are ( its only business) and ( In name of Lord.) Seems the Ws hid behind both of them.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Pike County massacre: Woman facing felonies is a fiercely protective matriarch

Helpful Hint: Might want to start thinking about downsizing, FW...IMO, your real estate is about to shrink to the size of a 6'x8' cell.

From what I understand (could be wrong, of course!) a typical criminal trial attorney would charge $250k. That's not including death penalty, mitigation specialist, etc. If I've read correctly, FW and Billy both have private funded attorneys. They will eat away at her fortune/property liens, quickly.

 

[Gracie55]

It’s SAD! Preying on the poor to better yourself is one of the lowest of lows.

Don't you suppose a feeling superiority enabled her conscience to excuse the predatory nature of her real estate transactions? She felt superior to the souls sucking into her land schemes, thinking them unsophisticated fools who were poor because they deserved no more. If you look down on folks from a mountain of superiority it's easier to take advantage of them. Even down to murder.

 

[CIA Team Member]

You have to keep in mind that you are hearing from people that are buying on land contract. Many times it will be allowed to do work on said properties bc they couldn't make a payment. Many people who buy on land contract are not always good at making payments. Do I think that FW probably entered into these agreements with people she knew would default? Oh i gurantee it. All the power is of the land owner in a land contract agreement. Good lesson why nobody should ever try to buy anything in this manner. Their is a differnce btwn lack of ethics and those actions that actually violate laws. Do I believe that FW is Shady and unethical? oh you betcha. Do I believe local officials were covering up for illegal business dealings? I think thats a stretch....MOO

I Also rent my starter house out and I always tell my tenants up front, I have bills to pay and I can't pay my bills if you don't pay me on time. I have no problem evicting people for not paying in a timely manner. Tenants tend to take an inch and turn it into a mile....just my experience

I've purchased a home on land contract previously. That was THEE way to go back in the 80's because of high interest rates charged by banks. Land contract: Almost zero closing costs, lower interest rates. Never made a late payment. Actually negotiated years afterwards for a lower "full pay off" amount. It was "win win" for all parties involved. My dumb dumb brother/wife accidently signed off on a balloon mortgage and found out 3 months prior because the bank was giving them their "heads up." Of course, they lost the house. We went through a realtor, he did not. Anywho, since lower interest rates land contracts aren't seen that much these days. UNLESS, you're unscrupulous/expect a high owner turnover because you've purposefully just sold to someone you KNOW won't/can't pay. Rinse, wash, repeat. The land remains in your possession forever really. Also, real estate is a money-laundering slush fund.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Don't you suppose a feeling superiority enabled her conscience to excuse the predatory nature of her real estate transactions? She felt superior to the souls sucking into her land schemes, thinking them unsophisticated fools who were poor because they deserved no more. If you look down on folks from a mountain of superiority it's easier to take advantage of them. Even down to murder.

Can't recall the guy down there who does the same thing with land/50-yo mobile homes. He brings up young ones from Kentucky, then turns around and forecloses. Money-laundering/property will always remain yours, rinse, wash, repeat with the next of kin generation(s). Again, the property will always remain yours.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I think all the evidence might have been removed from the trailers while the first forensic teams were out there right after the murders. They had the bodies, most likely all the photos they wanted and they had the bullet casings. Maybe there was nothing else to collect and the trailers were brought elsewhere to prevent vandalism, break-ins, possible fires and all sort of trouble along those lines. It seems to me the bulk of the physical evidence collected may have been located with and around the Wagners. I just think the Rhoden trailers had yielded all they were going to yield. I seem to remember LE spent a lot of time going through them. (After all, with other murders, homes are sold, apartments rented, convenience store re-opened after murders... saving entire homes is not really necessary... LE relinquishes crime scenes all the time once they are finished with them.) Those places would have been trashed, hunted through, wall opened looking for guns, drugs, people gawking at the blood, taking "souvenirs", filming and putting the videos on Youtube, seances held, etc... even family members would want to gather personal belongings and other family members might object, of course... (I know I'd want photos of my loved ones, etc, if it was my family who'd been killed.) LE moved them to avoid trouble, imo, and because they were trailers, they could be moved.

LE should have done what they did in Closs case and report trailers released to family while actually having cameras going to see who came back eventually. I’m willing to bet one of these numb-skulls would have panicked about something potentially left behind and gone to retrieve it at some point.