OH - Samuel Dubose, 43, killed by Cincinnati LE during traffic stop, 19 July 2015

[i.b.nora]

Documents: Up until DuBose, Ray Tensing's use of force deemed 'reasonable'
WCPO 9 Cincinnati
Pat LaFleur
4:08 PM, Aug 3, 2015

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news...ubose-tensings-use-of-force-deemed-reasonable

“CINCINNATI — Former University of Cincinnati officer Ray Tensing's confrontation with Sam DuBose wasn't the first time he used force while working for the university's police department.

Police records obtained by WCPO show Tensing used force during four other incidents -- two of which resulted in injuries -- two months before he shot and killed 43-year-old DuBose. In one case, records show he tackled a 15-year-old girl.

The personnel records paint an increasingly complex portrait of the former officer making national headlines.”​

Much more...

 

[KEVINinTO]

Search Warrant: Bags of marijuana found in Sam DuBose's car
WLWT5 Cincinnati
By: Ben Petracco, Digital Editor, [email protected]
Published On: Aug 04 2015 03:56:56 PM EDT
Updated On: Aug 04 2015 06:36:37 PM EDT

“WLWT has confirmed through CPD's search warrant inventory document that four bags and a jar of marijuana were in Dubose's car at the time of the July 19 traffic stop that ended in former UC Officer Ray Tensing fatally shooting DuBose.

However, multiple sources have told WLWT officers found a little less than 2 pounds of marijuana.

No officials were immediately able to confirm the amount of marijuana found.

*

Police sources said the street value for the amount of marijuana found in DuBose's car is anywhere between $2,000 and $5,000 depending on the quality and the demand.

Police said any marijuana weighing more than two pounds is considered a felony.

Officers said the search warrant was obtained two days after the deadly shooting.”​

http://m.wlwt.com/news/source-2-bags-of-marijuana-in-duboses-car-at-time-of-fatal-shooting/34533640

OH!! So they found "a little less than 2 pounds" of pot in SD car!! What did they find? 1.9 pounds? 1.8 pounds? Hmmmm? Remember 2 pounds of pot is worth over $10,000 (based on the average price per gram in Ohio reported by Forbes magazine).

So what this means is the local FOX news reporter was RIGHT when she tweeted about "2 pounds of pot" were found in the car (as reported by ME on here!). It also means that John Cardillo was RIGHT when he reported that about "2 pounds of pot" was found in the car. It means that the prosecutor - Deters - was WRONG !! when he called this a "chicken crap stop"

 

[KEVINinTO]

Documents: Up until DuBose, Ray Tensing's use of force deemed 'reasonable'
WCPO 9 Cincinnati
Pat LaFleur
4:08 PM, Aug 3, 2015

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news...ubose-tensings-use-of-force-deemed-reasonable

“CINCINNATI — Former University of Cincinnati officer Ray Tensing's confrontation with Sam DuBose wasn't the first time he used force while working for the university's police department.

Police records obtained by WCPO show Tensing used force during four other incidents -- two of which resulted in injuries -- two months before he shot and killed 43-year-old DuBose. In one case, records show he tackled a 15-year-old girl.

The personnel records paint an increasingly complex portrait of the former officer making national headlines.”​

Much more...

It should be noted that the reporter in this story is either an <modsnip>

He concludes his report saying "anything more than 2 pounds (of pot) would be a felony"

WRONG!!

According to this site: http://norml.org/laws/item/ohio-penalties-2

Anything over 200 grams (0.440925 pounds) in Ohio is a FELONY. SD was facing up to one year in prison and the loss of about $10,000 in pot PLUS the $2,600 in cash inside the car. He had a STRONG motivation for fleeing this traffic stop even if it put officer Tensling in mortal danger.

 

[vinayd]

I will go back to this footage today. I want to know if RT had his gun drawn when he put his hands in SB car. If a cop with a gun tried to pull me out the car when I wasn't under arrest and for no reason I might start my car as well. How about SB feared for his life looks like he had better reason than RT.

 

[BellaVita]

Sure there is. If you punch me in the face and break my jaw, I cannot use deadly force to defend myself because it would be excessive in this case. At least in Ohio, if someone breaks into my home with a baseball bat and I shoot them it's excessive force.

And I have been assaulted and mugged. My first reaction is not shoot people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BBM: LOL. What do the powers-that-be in Ohio wish for you to use in self-defense when confronted unexpectedly with a baseball bat in your home? People are frequently killed by baseball bats. So, are you supposed to tell the baseball bat-wielding criminal where the valuables are located and then hope he doesn't kill you. It is laughable and sad that gov't or anybody feels that a gun is unwarranted in this situation.

Also, depending on jurisdiction and circumstances, if I punch someone and break their jaw, they may well be entitled to use deadly force if they feel their life is in danger.

 

[BellaVita]

Reportedly, from the incident reports, RT noticed that the front tag was missing on West McMillan, at which point he ran the tag number while he was following SD turning on Vine St and then turning on Thill St, which becomes Rice St, where he stopped SD when he got the plate report. The plates came back to a female. He did not know who SD was. He may or may not have really been on West McMillan, but that is what was reported. JMO

BBM: He may or may not have known who SD was, IMO. I am not familiar with the area, but in my own experience, LE DOES often have very good working knowledge of who's who in a particular neighborhood and would even know the guys who don't have their own car but drive their mother's or girlfriend's car.

 

[sonjay]

BBM: LOL. What do the powers-that-be in Ohio wish for you to use in self-defense when confronted unexpectedly with a baseball bat in your home? People are frequently killed by baseball bats. So, are you supposed to tell the baseball bat-wielding criminal where the valuables are located and then hope he doesn't kill you. It is laughable and sad that gov't or anybody feels that a gun is unwarranted in this situation.

Astonishingly, the powers-that-be in Ohio are perfectly happy for you to use a firearm in self-defense when confronted unexpectedly with a baseball-bat wielding intruder in your home.

From the Ohio Bar website, at https://www.ohiobar.org/forpublic/resources/lawyoucanuse/pages/lawyoucanuse-333.aspx :

Q: If someone enters my home illegally, and I shoot her in self-defense, does S.B. 184 protect me from being arrested for protecting myself and my family?
A: Generally, yes. Ohio’s “castle laws” presume you have acted in self defense or in defense of another when using deadly force against someone who has unlawfully entered your residence or vehicle. If you were to be charged, the prosecution would have to prove that the intruder did not enter your house or vehicle with the intent of causing harm.

Notice particularly that there is a presumption of self-defense when the intruder has entered your home or vehicle. The Castle Doctrine laws strongly favor the innocent over the guilty. As it should be.

 

[BellaVita]

Imo when white people understand and express the idea "He was one of us" or "It could have happened to me" we can take race out of the discussion, and it shouldn't be, imo, up to black people to help them figure it out.

I don't think race is the reason why people don't have the idea "he was one of us". For me. I will never relate to someone who has 25 or 55 or 75 violations/charges. That's a very irresponsible person and most people who get up, go to work, mostly follow the law, pay their fines, carry insurance as required, don't try to flee when stopped by police, etc. are not going to feel any commonality with those who conduct themselves the exact opposite. I don't care what the person's color is. I just think about how irresponsible these types of people are. Whatever their color is.

 

[i.b.nora]

I was looking for something else when I happened upon this image which reminded me about another thing that I have been wondering about.



It seems there was another car driving by the murder scene at the same time the killing took place. Has the person driving the car been identified and did they witness anything?

 

[bluesneakers]

I don't think race is the reason why people don't have the idea "he was one of us". For me. I will never relate to someone who has 25 or 55 or 75 violations/charges. That's a very irresponsible person and most people who get up, go to work, mostly follow the law, pay their fines, carry insurance as required, don't try to flee when stopped by police, etc. are not going to feel any commonality with those who conduct themselves the exact opposite. I don't care what the person's color is. I just think how about how irresponsible these types of people are. Whatever their color is.

This is exactly what I just said. In every case there's always something found to 'other' the victim no matter what the circumstances of the shooting, which makes it convenient to act as if the most obvious other, the person's race, is not what matters. "It's not because he was black, it's because he was _fill in the blank_."

JMO.

 

[ZooSleuth]

I will go back to this footage today. I want to know if RT had his gun drawn when he put his hands in SB car. If a cop with a gun tried to pull me out the car when I wasn't under arrest and for no reason I might start my car as well. How about SB feared for his life looks like he had better reason than RT.

Unfortunately the "I feared for my life" defense only works if you're a cop.

 

[BellaVita]

This is exactly what I just said. In every case there's always something found to 'other' the victim no matter what the circumstances of the shooting, which makes it convenient to act as if the most obvious other, the person's race, is not what matters. "It's not because he was black, it's because he was _fill in the blank_."

JMO.

Well, if someone has 55 or 75 violations/charges and I have 1 or 2, that person is an "other" to me. It's not right to doubt me when I say the color means nothing to me. There are certainly people of all races with huge amounts of arrests, conducting their lives in an irresponsible way, endangering themselves, their children, and others. They are all "other" to me. No matter what they look like.

 

[bluesneakers]

Well, if someone has 55 or 75 violations/charges and I have 1 or 2, that person is an "other" to me. It's not right to doubt me when I say the color means nothing to me. There are certainly people of all races with huge amounts of arrests, conducting their lives in an irresponsible way, endangering themselves, their children, and others. They are all "other" to me. No matter what they look like.

What about when the victim of the police shooting is someone innocent, someone like you? Do you think "It could have been me" then?

 

[vinayd]

I was looking for something else when I happened upon this image which reminded me about another thing that I have been wondering about.

View attachment 79493

It seems there was another car driving by the murder scene at the same time the killing took place. Has the person driving the car been identified and did they witness anything?

Good question! I thought I heard a car driving behind him and I initially believed this was what RT heard and assumed SB was skirting off.

 

[BellaVita]

What about when the victim of the police shooting is someone innocent, someone like you? Do you think "It could have been me" then?

I know that situation happens, however if one lives responsibly, the odds of being shot by LE are drastically reduced. More often, the times when I think "it could have been me" is when an innocent person is killed by a reckless driver who's been ticketed/license suspended numerous times. Life is dangerous. It's smart to minimize risk if one hopes to live a long time. Following the law as best I can and knowing how to handle a traffic stop is one way of minimizing that danger.

 

[cady]

BBM: He may or may not have known who SD was, IMO. I am not familiar with the area, but in my own experience, LE DOES often have very good working knowledge of who's who in a particular neighborhood and would even know the guys who don't have their own car but drive their mother's or girlfriend's car.

If he knew, what was the point of badgering him? JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

I know that situation happens, however if one lives responsibly, the odds of being shot by LE are drastically reduced. More often, the times when I think "it could have been me" is when an innocent person is killed by a reckless driver who's been ticketed/license suspended numerous times. Life is dangerous. It's smart to minimize risk if one hopes to live a long time. Following the law as best I can and knowing how to handle a traffic stop is one way of minimizing that danger.

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make in the beginning. White people don't think "It could have been me" instead they think "That could never happen to me." Black people always know "It could have been me." Even when I asked you quite directly you still tried to make sure I understood you weren't going to say it could happen to you. Not if you live responsibly. I wasn't asking you about anything else. There was no need for the qualifiers.

JMO.

 

[cady]

I was looking for something else when I happened upon this image which reminded me about another thing that I have been wondering about.

View attachment 79493

It seems there was another car driving by the murder scene at the same time the killing took place. Has the person driving the car been identified and did they witness anything?

Weird. They must have...he is aiming his weapon at them. The other white car was parked ahead of SD on the opposite side of the railing. Looks like he is on his butt FACING the railing. I need to look at the body cam video again.. Confused. JMO.....add....Was it a police car?

 

[Woodland]

I know that situation happens, however if one lives responsibly, the odds of being shot by LE are drastically reduced. More often, the times when I think "it could have been me" is when an innocent person is killed by a reckless driver who's been ticketed/license suspended numerous times. Life is dangerous. It's smart to minimize risk if one hopes to live a long time. Following the law as best I can and knowing how to handle a traffic stop is one way of minimizing that danger.

BBM

Chuckles - I live life responsibly. I need to duck if I enter the US? Not a good tourism advertisement imo. I know people planning to head to TN in a few days - will see if I can talk them out of it.

 

[i.b.nora]

It seems that at least some of the University of Cincinnati police officers believe that good community policing in the area out and about and around the University, consists of cruising the streets in their dark-tinted windows-up patrol vehicles, and using their license plate readers to forage for stolen cars and other possible unpaid fine scofflaws. (All in addition of course to using it to find a car registered to a female being driven by a male but not reported stolen and killing said male who was driving without a front plate attached to his girlfriend's car.)

There is nothing about those kind of policing techniques that lead me me to believe that at least some of the University Police give a hoot about the community. I think they view them as the scourge of society and using their LPRs and their Sig Sauers they are going to single handedly wipe them off the planet earth.

I posted an article last night that was about other recent arrests that ex-officer Tensing was involved in. It's a good read.