OH - Samuel Dubose, 43, killed by Cincinnati LE during traffic stop, 19 July 2015

  • #421
  • #422
humm what judge today is called :

Allen Charge:

Allen v. United States, 164 U.S. 492 (1896), was a United States Supreme Court case that, amongst other things, approved the use of a jury instruction intended to prevent a hung jury by encouraging jurors in the minority to reconsider.

Allen is based upon the Supreme Court's supervisory power over the federal courts. Thus, it is not binding on state courts. Approximately half of US states prohibit Allen charges on state law grounds

Such an instruction became known as an Allen charge and is given when, after deliberation, a jury reports that it is deadlocked and unable to decide on a verdict. Because it is used to dislodge jurors from entrenched positions, the Allen charge is sometimes referred to as the "dynamite charge" or the "hammer charge."



Here it is formally:

"Members of the Jury:
I'm going to ask that you continue your deliberations in an effort to reach agreement upon a verdict and dispose of this case; and I have a few additional comments I would like for you to consider as you do so.
This is an important case. The trial has been expensive in time, effort, money and emotional strain to both the defense and the prosecution. If you should fail to agree upon a verdict, the case will be left open and may have to be tried again. Obviously, another trial would only serve to increase the cost to both sides, and there is no reason to believe that the case can be tried again by either side any better or more exhaustively than it has been tried before you.
Any future jury must be selected in the same manner and from the same source as you were chosen, and there is no reason to believe that the case could ever be submitted to twelve men and women more conscientious, more impartial, or more competent to decide it, or that more or clearer evidence could be produced.
If a substantial majority of your number are in favor of a conviction, those of you who disagree should reconsider whether your doubt is a reasonable one since it appears to make no effective impression upon the minds of the others. On the other hand, if a majority or even a lesser number of you are in favor of an acquittal, the rest of you should ask yourselves again, and most thoughtfully, whether you should accept the weight and sufficiency of evidence which fails to convince your fellow jurors beyond a reasonable doubt.
Remember at all times that no juror is expected to give up an honest belief he or she may have as to the weight or effect of the evidence; but, after full deliberation and consideration of the evidence in the case, it is your duty to agree upon a verdict if you can do so.
You must also remember that if the evidence in the case fails to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt the Defendant should have your unanimous verdict of Not Guilty.
You may be as leisurely in your deliberations as the occasion may require and should take all the time which you may feel is necessary.
I will ask now that you retire once again and continue your deliberations with these additional comments in mind to be applied, of course, in conjunction with all of the other instructions I have previously given to you."[SUP][4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_v._United_States_(1896)#Text_of_Allen_charge[/SUP]
 
  • #423
Last week I got refreshed on this, and this cop IMO acts like a power control nasty authoritative cop who feels big with his little badge on .

Watch some YT videos of him-- he is a disrespectful cop moo

I was so thinking he should get nailed (see above!) since watching the trial- and getting the sequence of events ( all 3 secs!) and see how he thought he might get run over moo

[h=1]key moments from Ray Tensing's trial[/h]
http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/ray-tensing-trial-tensing-top-moments
 
  • #424
Humm

been a ride here.

The truth is for all of who overtime share our thoughts - what we are really doing is sharing our belief systems based on what life has presented us.

That being said , for those of us that addicted to this, we all kinda know where we come from

I am not LE positive - as a gay man life experience.

However, as I have watched actual court stuff, I truly believe this kid was totally afraid he could get smuehed to death.

First, when is the last time any of us can remember anyone taking the stand? To me, moo, that means this guy is so befuddled that he got here.

He will share his experience and anyone would know he feared for his life.


His testimony IMO was stunningly authentic. Anyone can cry when they are facing the death chair.

BUT if you watch closely, his breathing patterns were totally congruent with a "male" trying not to cry on global television,

Follow his deep breaths, for minutes after he first lost it- its physiological. We have all tried "not to cry", its draining and in time the body has to rebreathe.

You can't fake that. Hey we might be killed for our trangession, make some tears. Watch his breathing for the next 15 minutes. The breaths are deep, gasping , physiological .

Its is fine after the fact to have all these experts, being paid thousands to come in and examine all this stuff, and in hindsight to say this or tht.

It was a three 2.5 second event. I can certainly get that if I was scared to dealth that I was gonna get run over that was in reality 3 seconds seemed like 10 feet to ME.

Hey therapist some of the stuff he authentically said were amazing to me.

He was acting squirreling, there was a gin bottle, am I dealing with a imparied person, he did resist, the car was turned on

He is tall. 6 3 that matters here as it relates to his arms and the car height, and everything that happened in those three seconds.

I could go on and on and I am not promising that I might - but I just think after watching 80% of the trial, this was a kid cop, who was totally mortified that his legs were about to be run over.

Watch his stops earlier that day (and this one) he was professional , respectful, outlining the reason for the stop.

Now, I have to say that upon learning from the court hearing, that his race ratio of pulling over 87% AA - the highest in the dept, understandably bothersome.

He also had the highest whatever pullover rate.

BUT in this incident, I authentically believe that he was mortified that his legs were about to get chopped off by the rear tires.

Hey give me something -I am fine with changing my perceptions.

At this point , I think he should be charged with nothing- he was petrified.

BBM. Respectfully, I'm surprised that you think nobody takes the stand anymore. It's a well known fact that it's in an accused officer's best interest to take the stand and tell the jury that they feared for their life. This guy may have seemed authentic to you on the stand but at the end of the day he lied about what happened (hand caught in the steering wheel) and went against training when he reached into the guy's car.
 
  • #425
Sorry Cariis, I just can't agree with your latest conclusions. I think his so called perceptions were after thoughts. He just isn't that 'quick', imo.
 
  • #426
Sorry Cariis, I just can't agree with your latest conclusions. I think his so called perceptions were after thoughts. He just isn't that 'quick', imo.

I'm with you.
 
  • #427
Jury cannot reach verdict in Ray Tensing trial. Judge declares a mistrial.

http://www.fox19.com/story/33681072/ray-tensing-sam-dubose

CINCINNATI (FOX19) - Jury members were unable to come to a unanimous decision in the trial of former University of Cincinnati police officer Ray Tensing and a mistrial has been declared


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #428
  • #429
Thrilled- before the watching the trial intently I thought another abuse by cops. But as I watched, I slowly got to the place to where in three seconds I believe in that moment he really thought he could be killed.

I am not pro LE, and believe as a nation we have very serious problem.

It has been a wild ride as I watched this trial ( and I watched it all guys ) this is correct IMO

Respectfully, very respectfully, unless one watched the entire thing.......................................


glad..........................................
 
  • #430
BBM. Respectfully, I'm surprised that you think nobody takes the stand anymore. It's a well known fact that it's in an accused officer's best interest to take the stand and tell the jury that they feared for their life. This guy may have seemed authentic to you on the stand but at the end of the day he lied about what happened (hand caught in the steering wheel) and went against training when he reached into the guy's car.

OK we all (regulars) know what we had better do, in sharing our feelings not to get the thread shut.

There was only thread 1where Tricia was involved that I had been on that I so got the TOS- very helpful to me. I had my share of timeouts!

I get it now -- so I want to share how I got here. 40 seconds after it all happened, shooting someone in the head is kinda a deal.

Noone after the previous 3 minutes , has the time to make up this "story"..

His first utterances were he dragged me. In my therapist mind, yeh what was in reality 2 feet could feel like 20 feet to me, I was mortified.

He had already been , his words "squirrly, he at that time had a bottle of gin on him , in my mind, he pulls the door shut on me, he starts the car on me, he puts it gear.

Its awesome all this technology 15 months later - millisecond by milliseconds , to say the shot happened before the car engine was heard.

In the moment, I would conclude, that someone who started the car, put it in drive intentions were NOT to stay there.

A millisecond later, after the shot the engine roars. It translates to his conclusion a millisecond before that he was going to peel away.

And he was not wrong. That IS what occurred

In my brain processing what FELT like 10 feet , was in reality 24 inches can be authentic.

40 seconds later his utterance "he dragged me" is congruent with what it felt like to him 10 feet. Watch him right after he IS checking out his arm , his leg, he is having sensations in both.

The notion, that someone who in the last 240 seconds, can come up with this whole deal I am going to say I was dragged 15 feet , I am going to get colleagues who have been on the scene 180 seconds to back up this story I made up in 240 seconds to cover my butt, after trauma is totally not how it can work.

Brain wise. There is too much going on - it was not like two days later he came up with "i was dragged" it was 40 seconds, that what was going on his brain that 3 seconds.

There IMO nothing incongruent with a person that refuses to get out of the car, starts it, shift the gear, to come up with the next logical conclusion that he is gonna step on the gas pedal.

That is a logical conclusion! It is what happened.

The deal that his arm was under, around or whatever the steering wheel is irrelevant, to him in that second he could not get away from the car in that second.

That would lead me to feel trapped, he tried to get out and away, and in that one second, for whatever reason could not.

a year and half later all this millisecond later stuff is awesome, the brain is not fast, there is an order to how he processed in that 3 seconds.

I would be so scared............................

And to imagine, that I would be thrilled that a cop who killed an AA , did not get convicted of murder, personally , is quite amazing - but I watched the trial...........................

Respectfully, anyone who watched the entire trial, that differs I would love to be challenged on how I got here!
 
  • #431
I'm with you.

140 seconds at the end of the road he told colleagues that he had been dragged. If the only time we heard that he felt dragged was 48 hours later I am with ya.

He shared his perceptions 140 seconds later- that was what started me thinking oh my the way he was processing makes sense.

Can any of us come up , in a 140 seconds, oh no this is unjustified, I had better claim that I was dragged 10 feet to cover my tushie!

Too much going on for him to even think I better craft this story to cover me.

Before he turned off the car the noise level was quite distracting to me!

Do it in real time -- I better say on body cam I was dragged IMO the timeframe is too short to even think I just did an unjustified shooting
 
  • #432
Here is testimoy . Questions:



Was this a person that tried to cry endlessly while on the stand?

Does it look like he, as long as he could, appear as a male cop who really did not want to be seen as a male cop needing a Kleenex on global television (male junk as it relates to crying)?

Was he "automatically" respectful - yes sir - not rehearsed , watch his initial interview - he is respectful.

Did he explain that half of his shift is nightime and he could not see the race of the driver?

Was the tag on this car showing a suspended license?

Did he describe feeling as if the suspect was trying to get him go back to his car? (Run my SSN).

Do you agree from the video that the suspect was fidgety?

Did he look eye to eye to who was asking the questions?

When he briefly lost it - was at that point - with the question being asking did it make sense that that question would be upsetting?

Would it be realistic notion that he might be dealing with a drunk person with a half empty bottle of gin between his legs?

Did suspect physically shut the door on him - indicating a willingness to be either aggressive or non-complaint?


Did he attempt to "stop" his outburst?

Was his breathing congruent after losing it a bit with someone that did not want to cry in front of the world as a cop and a male?

Was he desresptful to anyone that was asking questions?

Was he open , in detail, to explain what was going on in his head as this mess unfolded? Was anything that reported as it happened something that one might not think or feel?

Watch the other stops that day - were they all AA is that a concern you bet - was he sisprepsectul to anyone he pulled over?

There are other videos on you tube where he was a d(ck



Was he doing what his boss directed all of them to do?

Watch the whole thing - ask yourself - did the person try to explain that day?

Watch it all!!

[video=youtube;uJLkOHKliIY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJLkOHKliIY[/video]
 
  • #433
Bottom line for me is this---the suspect illegally tried to run from a traffic stop while the officer had his arm in the car, trying to prevent it.

I am not going to find a police officer guilty of murder under those circumstances. The victim could have followed the law and sat and waited for the ticket. He set this all in motion himself. JMO
 
  • #434
As to the ASSERTION that people who become cops are more aggressive and assertive than the usual person...well, YES.

And if you are hiding in your closet during an armed home invasion, who do you want to come to your rescue? An aggressive, assertive proactive officer or a meek, mild mannered officer who turns away from trouble so he will not have to harm a suspect?
 
  • #435
My core belief system after watching the trial is none of all the other crazy stuff.

Is it logical, for any person, in any context, to come to the conclusion that the other person's intent is to drive off. Period.

Everything that happened in the next two seconds is based on the conclusion that someone who started their car and put it in drive planed on moving, while my arm is in it .

Does anyone start a car, and put it in drive while planning to remain exactly where they are?

Its dumb IMO!!

Really that simple.

Watch it again 3:17 3:47 whole thing . Then watch the next 2 minutes, everything he said on the stand matches- more than once he stated he thought he was gonna run him over, he is shaking his left hand n discomfort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJLkOHKliIY

moo
 
  • #436
posted last link, but this is the first time I have ever seen the entire thing ----- with a lot of POV from HIS cam talking to peers.
17:00 gin bottle anyone tell where the car was related to the driveway by the gin bottle?

[video=youtube;biSgovypcP0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biSgovypcP0[/video]
 
  • #437
Thanks for the link to Tensing's testimony. I intend to watch it in its entirety.

Maybe then I can offer a more educated opinion (because I did not watch his trial, I've been watching the Walter Scott trial).

Its either WS website or my browser but something is wonky.
 
  • #438
Neat step by step --utterly amazing---- just the parking sign, and the frozen frame when Tansing stands up means

HE WAS DRAGGED!

This is better than anything shown in the trial. If you watch this in the beginning pay close attn , in the beginning to the parking sign- it will change your mind in the freeze frame

If ya dont want to watch the whole thing go to 1:46 attn to parking sign and then DIng ding ding ding 14:28 takes care of the not being dragged mo!!

Check it out

[video=youtube;F169I8ZbbJE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F169I8ZbbJE[/video]
 
  • #439
Thanks for the link to Tensing's testimony. I intend to watch it in its entirety.

Maybe then I can offer a more educated opinion (because I did not watch his trial, I've been watching the Walter Scott trial).

Its either WS website or my browser but something is wonky.

Hi

You, unlike Fox are fair and balanced ha! I look forward to your response! I totally thought he should be locked away 15 months ago - now that is a long time ago so I forgive myself (!) but I did not remember anything about him taking off like he did.

The video I just located and posted is utterly amazing, kinda made me mad - if an amateur can do it that well - why did no one on either side do it like that.

I found the video stuff in the courtroom very non-helpful! This guys video is unreal - its crystal clear almost. Nothing in the court videos was anywhere near as helpful or clear.

If I was Tensing and I saw that last video , I would have something to say to my defense attorney - and it would sound like excuse me, how come none of our videos were that good - you made bla blah and some You Tuber could have gotten me innocent .

I tried to watch the one your watching, but oh my lord the players are worse than quaaludes, I could not follow --it was so SLOW. The heavy set gray haired dude was unreal, I felt pity for the jury!!

And I found the judge just mean and nasty moo.

This judge was the best one I have ever seen- really liked her! And she was real , believe me there were a couple of times where she just zoned also!

One time she got snapped out , but she kinda like admitted it (sort of) she put her head in hands, shook her head like she was trying to come back to earth!!

Gotta tell ya, it was, on my part a slow reevaluation of the case as I watched. There was some (cause of my notions about LE and homophobia) resistance to just getting to the point of what on earth would anyone think if someone started their vehicle and slammed it into drive. There is no other conclusion possible!


I loved it when Tansing said something like (to prosecutor) "Yes, sir I was afraid of his 3,000 lb vehicle. This prosecutor was so passive aggressive- I was surprised he did not get called out a couple of times. Tansing never got rattled, or was disrespectful.

I think that is why he took the stand- everything that happened in that three seconds in his belief systems - is what happened.

We all know they are gonna redo it - poor kid has to go through all this again, hopefully by that time that last video can be seen

It is from his body cam - it totally matches up to everything he said right after, in his statement, and on the stand!



....video footage captured by Tensing's body camera in the weeks leading up to the deadly July 19 traffic stop depict him as being generally courteous during traffic stops. as I watched I the same thing.

I will see if I can find it there was one where he was a pri#$!

I do not understand how the dragging got so convoluted

This is from July 2015 look at 00:53 it is clear he was dragged???

http://www.wcpo.com/news/education/higher-education/uc-news/murder-charge-sits-in-gap-between-reports-and-body-cam-video


http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/...med-reasonable

The parking sign was it tonight!!

Look forward to your notions my dear!!
 
  • #440
I got the sense earlier the proscutor was trying to prep city that he may not retry,

I just saw this


[h=2]Hamilton County prosecutor Joe Deters says if Ray Tensing case is retried, total cost of both trials for state of Ohio will be upwards of $1 million - @JulieKDolan

Does anyone know if in this day and age if one is sequestered are their cell phones taken and tvs removed from hotel rooms?

It seems like sequestering was realisitc before the internet and stuff - but unless someone is like actually put somewhere with NOTHING there is no way noone will discuss it


I know its a surprise (ha) but if I was on a jury I sure would have a hard time keeping my big mouth shut!!!

Hey at least on this one we got a trial!!



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