OH - Samuel Dubose, 43, killed by Cincinnati LE during traffic stop, 19 July 2015

[Constance]

In my opinion:

Being uncooperative with a doctor doesn't give them the right to overdose you to death.

Being rude to a waiter doesn't excuse their poisoning your food so that you die.

Being a jerk to the electric guy doesn't give him the right to electrocute you to death.

Being mean to the paper boy doesn't mean he can throw moltov cocktails at your house and burn you to death.

Being short with a bus driver doesn't excuse their throwing you off the bus and running you over until you die.

Backtalking a teacher doesn't mean they can stab you to death with a pencil.

No one's going to say, "If only you'd been nicer!" And no one should be saying it in this case, IMO.

I really think this case is pretty cut and dried. What's up with the perp-cop, Former University of Cincinnati Police Officer Ray Tensing, who shot Mr. Dubose? What sort of background does he have? Was this a crime that just happened to happen while the perp had official, legal advantage over the victim? Could this murder be less about policing and more about killing? Who is this guy?

 

[KaaBoom]

Are you joking? There isn't a law there against open alcohol container?

The cop didn't arrest him for that, or even mention it.

 

[KEVINinTO]

from http://www.fox19.com/story/29685336/fox19-now-exclusive-new-numbers-reveal-policing-practices-at-

Ok, so there are 98 LEOs who are involved in arrests and citations. We should expect Tensing to be responsible for between 1-2% of them. And yet, he is responsible for more than 10% of them. That's pretty astonishing. It says 'cowboy cop' to me.

Is there any evidence that the citations issued by Tensing were not valid? If not these statistics are meaningless. They don't point to a "cowboy cop" but rather an extraordinarily productive and proactive cop. By comparison his colleagues could be called "slackers". In every field of work you have stand-out performers. Cops are measured on their performance and their promotions are based on these measurements. Again, unless there is evidence that the citations were not valid these statistics don't prove that Tensing is a "racist". They suggest that there has been a spike in crimes committed by a certain category of people and this seems to be the trend across the U.S. if places like Baltimore are any example.

 

[bluesneakers]

There is, and evidently the punishment for it is summary execution.

Was it open? I thought he said it didn't have gin in it anyway.

 

[miimaa]

Re: the possibility that Samuel Dubose had marijuana in his car:

It strikes me as slightly insane that in 2015, people still try to use Reefer Madness as an excuse to allow the police to terrorize people.

Marijuana has been and is being made available by prescription, legalized, and/or decriminalized in a lot of places all across the US -- including Ohio, the state that Samuel Dubose was murdered in, which has made possession of up to 200 grams a misdemeanor punishable with a fine.

Most folks nowadays know that the most dangerous thing about a healthy adult person consuming the stuff is their getting caught with it in the wrong place.

JMO, anyone trying to justify the shooter's actions in this case -- and the resulting death of a human being -- is going to have to try a lot harder than "He had pot!"

Y'know, I just kinda feel like Samuel Dubose's life was more valuable than any amount of marijuana & cash he might have had in his car. I don't think I'm alone in that, thank God.

No one is trying to justify the shooters actions regarding the pot. What you don't get is dubose's reaction and attitude while being stopped KNOWING his license was suspended, he has that pot and the gin. Dubose's is the only person that knew what was in that vehicle hence his reason for attempting to evade arrest.

 

[bluesneakers]

Poster did not refer to this specific incident but to her own experience. That is what she was trying to say.

The poster specifically referred to Dubose and asked "Think that may be a factor and may extrapolate to the difference in numbers that you mention?" So I think the comment does refer to this specific incident and the officer's specific statistics.

Maybe you read a different comment? This is what I was replying to:

In the few times that I have been pulled over I have gone out of my way to cooperate with the cop.
Mr. DuBose evidently did not.
Think that may be a factor and may extrapolate to the difference in numbers that you mention?

 

[bluesneakers]

The cop didn't arrest him for that, or even mention it.

And even if he knew and had mentioned it open container is not a capital crime.

 

[bluesneakers]

In my opinion:

Being uncooperative with a doctor doesn't give them the right to overdose you to death.

Being rude to a waiter doesn't excuse their poisoning your food so that you die.

Being a jerk to the electric guy doesn't give him the right to electrocute you to death.

Being mean to the paper boy doesn't mean he can throw moltov cocktails at your house and burn you to death.

Being short with a bus driver doesn't excuse their throwing you off the bus and running you over until you die.

Backtalking a teacher doesn't mean they can stab you to death with a pencil.

No one's going to say, "If only you'd been nicer!" And no one should be saying it in this case, IMO.

I really think this case is pretty cut and dried. What's up with the perp-cop, Former University of Cincinnati Police Officer Ray Tensing, who shot Mr. Dubose? What sort of background does he have? Was this a crime that just happened to happen while the perp had official, legal advantage over the victim? Could this murder be less about policing and more about killing? Who is this guy?

IMO this murder has very little to do with policing at all.

 

[Montjoy]

Was it open? I thought he said it didn't have gin in it anyway.

You're right -- I should have said that 'suspicion of open alcohol' is punishable by summary execution. Thanks!

 

[Constance]

No one is trying to justify the shooters actions regarding the pot. What you don't get is dubose's reaction and attitude while being stopped KNOWING his license was suspended, he has that pot and the gin. Dubose's is the only person that knew what was in that vehicle hence his reason for attempting to evade arrest.

Respectfully, we don't know Dubose's intentions or reasons, or even that he was in fact trying to "evade arrest" and sadly, we can't ask him. Neither do we know that the bottle contained gin, or that there was pot in the vehicle. After all, there was some dishonesty early on in this case on the part of some of the officers, if I recall correctly. It wouldn't be the first time cops have lied or planted evidence, IMO. They are human, after all.

 

[miimaa]

There is more lawlessness. That's what is going on. More lawless people=more arrested people. And deservedly so. Stop driving around with no license, no insurance, DUI, being deadbeat parents, etc. How is it that so many people can't follow simple laws? Stop breaking them and life is so much easier. Glad to know taxpayer's money is being rewarded in the form of more conscientious and productive LE.

Oh wait! Logic has no place in false emotional mania.

 

[Constance]

Yeah, but they have already spent over one trillion dollars ($1,000,000,000,000) fighting it. What are they going to do, admit that they were wrong and they wasted all that money and resources?

OT: Eventually they're going to have to. Meth & heroin & god only knows what else is all over causing destruction and death these days. That means more people know the truth, having seen the real bad stuff, and aren't as easily fooled about the marijuana as we once were. They can continue to run their war on the hard stuff to staff their prison factories. Their war hasn't been a waste, not for them. Somebody makes a profit off of all the prison labor, you can believe that. JMO.

 

[miimaa]

I am sorry this man died. This did not need to happen. Was he a victim of blind hatred and white racism? No. Dubose was a man with a record, driving without a valid license, pulled over for a petty traffic violation, a man carrying illegal drugs. Still he did not DESERVE to die. He was not shot because he was black. He was shot because of a situation that got out of control. He had a reason and need to flee, the officer had a reason and need to prevent him from doing that.

 

[miimaa]

The cop didn't arrest him for that, or even mention it.

<modsnip> The discussion specifically was about the gin only not the shooting itself. For what it's worth Dubose was not arrested... And yes before you even reply I am fully aware he was killed before being arrested.

I want to post that I feel Dubose should not have been shot and it is a terrible situation. Emotions are running high but this was not a racially motivated crime. Any AA guy/gal could have been the victim if race was the motive. A Completely innocent person on their way home after work. We have tho this this man - a person with a criminal history, suspended license and drugs in his possession giving him ample reason to avoid arrest, attempt to flee, resulting in...

 

[miimaa]

There is, and evidently the punishment for it is summary execution.

Discuss or extrapolate?

 

[bluesneakers]

<modsnip> The discussion specifically was about the gin only not the shooting itself. For what it's worth Dubose was not arrested.

It's difficult to arrest someone after you've murdered him.

 

[miimaa]

Respectfully, we don't know Dubose's intentions or reasons, or even that he was in fact trying to "evade arrest" and sadly, we can't ask him. Neither do we know that the bottle contained gin, or that there was pot in the vehicle. After all, there was some dishonesty early on in this case on the part of some of the officers, if I recall correctly. It wouldn't be the first time cops have lied or planted evidence, IMO. They are human, after all.

Just as respectfully you don't know the LE thoughts or intentions either and if the bottle did not contain gin (as marked) that would be complete stupidity on his part to hand it to LE.

Since you are accussing cops of lying is it unheard of in your utopian world for others to lie or falsify/hide evidence?
Y

 

[bluesneakers]

Just as respectfully you don't know the LE thoughts or intentions either

Respectfully, we know when he aimed his weapon and shot Samuel in the head it was his intention to kill him.

 

[Constance]

Just as respectfully you don't know the LE thoughts or intentions either and if the bottle did not contain gin (as marked) that would be complete stupidity on his part to hand it to LE.

Agreed. I've already expressed my curiosity in the perp's background, but I'm too lazy to Google right now. I guess I was hoping someone else would do it & report back, lol. I do know his actions, however, because it's on video.

About the bottle: I don't get how handing it over would be stupid no matter what it contained. Whatever was in it, it was full. The officer expressed interest in it and Mr. Dubose cooperated by handing it over. I suspect if he hadn't, people would be saying he should have.

 

[Constance]

Since you are accussing cops of lying is it unheard of in your utopian world for others to lie or falsify/hide evidence?
Y

rsbm

I don't think I accused the cops of lying, just threw it out there as a possibility because I thought mainstream media reported it had happened in this case. I could be wrong and have no problem admitting that.

I don't have a utopian world. I do believe that some people do in fact lie and falsify/hide evidence, yes, of course. I also believe that police officers are people.