GUILTY OH - Steubenville Rape Case, 11 Aug 2012 #1

[Lois Lane]

You guys have probably already posted this stuff:

Kind of corroborates MN's video comments imo. So sworn witnesses testified in October as to the state of the victim and how she apparently did NOT give consent to one of the accused for the sex act performed on her.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/07/justice/ohio-steubenville-alleged-rape-case/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I think you have the wrong initials in the snippet from CNN.

It should read:

At an October hearing, witnesses say they saw the girl stumbling, vomiting and eventually unconscious, having to be carried by the hands and feet. One of the witnesses said she didn't respond when MR performed a sexual act on her in the basement of another student's home.

 

[Gardenlady]

Every time I see the face of the kid in the video, the one who thinks he is soooo funny, I can't help but think of a braying jackass. There is something seriously wrong with him and i doubt this will be the last time he gets in trouble.

It is sickening how some schools, coaches and others allow athletes to get away with such repulsive behavior. I remember my high school days and the coach's son was in my classes. The teacher blatantly favored him and his athlete friends. They even created an English class called "Recreational Reading" for the athletes so they could get the English credit they needed. the coach taught it and all they did was read 2 comic books or something equally simple. No one but the athletes were allowed to take that class. In other classes the teachers gave the athletes credit on test for blatantly wrong answers such as "what was the first national magazine?". The coaches son answered "Playboy" and she gave him credit for it. The jock were rude, disruptive and allowed to behave however they pleased.

I have never been into athletics and I worked in the school library in my spare time. The principal and coach would make attendance at pep rallies mandatory. They even wanted us to pay to go to the pep rally. I protested and said I would prefer to go to the library and read, study or work there instead of going to a pep rally. I got sent to the principal's office for refusing to go to the pep rally. The principal got furious at me for that. I have a smart mouth and I told him I came to school to get an education, not to cheer on a bunch of ill mannered, idiotic jocks. He told me I could either go to the pep rally or be suspended and I said "Great!! suspend me, I am outta here." and walked off campus and called home for a ride.

I went a high school where jocks were allowed to rule the school and hated it so I decided to attend summer school, take correspondence courses in addition to going to high school so I could graduate early, at age 16, because I wanted to get the heck out of there as soon as possible. I graduated in December, started work and didn't even bother to attend my high school graduation.

There are good coaches and good athletes but unfortunately there are also quite a few very sick and abusive people in charge as well. I am sure there is much more ugliness that has been swept under the rug in the past for these athletes.

:goodpost:

I'd love to have a conversation about how the "jockocracy", and the entire sports culture in America (and especially a high schools and colleges) is toxic, and how it conditions people into accepting and continuing patriarchal rules and attitudes. The whole male-athletes-as-heroes, pep rallies, homecoming, cheerleading, etc. IMO it all contributes to this attitude these young men have, that the girls are there to fawn all over them and be available for them, and that they can have what they want when they want it.

It's all gross. Just disgusting, the entire culture around sports.

 

[believe09]

I think you have the wrong initials in the snippet from CNN.

It should read:

Thank you for the correction-I was referring to MN's video interpretation of the sexual assault (sodomy) of the victim by MR. They appear to match. To me, it is suggestive that MN in fact saw the act, not just heard about it but that is my opinion only.

Additionally, if you watch the accompanying video with the CNN article I linked one of the defense attorney's as well as Anderson Cooper identify the victim as the one in the photo-the photo of a woman/girl in light blue shorts being carried by two people. If you look at the probable cause hearing, one of the witnesses testifies that the victim was carried from the basement to the third party in this fashion.

This should clarify who is in the photo that we have been discussing.

 

[believe09]

Here is a link to penalities involved in underage drinking in Ohio:
(mind you some of these do not apply if you are drinking under the consent of parent or guardian)

http://www.units.muohio.edu/saf/oxfordoffcampus/ohioDrinkingLaws.pdf

Interestingly enough, in Ohio you can furnish alcohol to a minor if you are their parent or guardian.

However, you cannot give alcohol to your minor children's friends under any circumstances, even with the consent of their parents.

The penalties include:

• 1000.00 fine
• 6 months in prison
• lawsuit if someone under 21 hurts another or damages property as a result of you giving them alcohol.
• Officers can take alcohol, money or any property used in committing the offense.

Looks like LE will be walking away with at least one vehicle and a basement if the allegations hold up.

You can't knowing allow an underage child to remain on your property or in your home after consuming alcohol, unless it is your own child.

So where were the parents again and where were these parties being held??

 

[Steely Dan]

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/nati...us-hacking-file-steubenville-rape-crew/60502/


Saccoccia, pronounced SOCK-otch, told the principal and school superintendent that the players who posted online photographs and comments about the girl the night of the parties said they did not think they had done anything wrong. Because of that, he said, he had no basis for benching those players.

....

Approached in November to be interviewed about the case, Saccoccia said he did not "do the Internet," so he had not seen the comments and photographs posted online from that night. When asked again about the players involved and why he chose not to discipline them, he became agitated.



"You made me mad now," he said, throwing in several expletives as he walked from the high school to his car.

Nearly nose to nose with a reporter, he growled: "You're going to get yours. And if you don't get yours, somebody close to you will."

BBM. This is exactly why the principal, superintendent and coach need to lose their jobs. If they haven't go enough decency and intelligence to see that something very wrong occurred, they have no business being a position working with kids.

I just find it utterly astounding that they saw nothing wrong. And then for the coach to threaten the media by saying ""You're going to get yours. And if you don't get yours, somebody close to you will" is even more appalling.

In one of the articles I read about this, one of the comments alleges that the victim had previously dated a boy name CS and then broken up with him. He allegedly planned his revenge on her by luring her into this mess and was a witness and participant with lots of evidence to prove it. However charges against him were said to have been dropped because a local influential business man (Mr T.) along with CS's father and the sheriff met at a local pasta restaurant to take care of the problem.

I can't confirm any of this and only read it in the comments section of one of the articles about this case but it is a very interesting allegation and I wonder how much truth is to it. I took a screen cap of the comment because it stood out to me.

At the bottom of that link is a video. I literally had to stop watching after three seconds.

I agree. He does seem to have some type of personality or conduct disorder, in my non-professional opinion. Even when others tried to raise some empathetic feeling in him, he just couldn't do it. (What if she was my sister? She's not.)

I would be devastated if it were my son.

I feel very strongly against hitting kids. My father never laid a hand on me. The worst thing my father did, is say to me that I had really disappointed him. That hit me harder and is still with me today.

However, in this case if the kid shown in the first three seconds of that video or any of the guys involved it were my kids. It would be very difficult for me to restrain myself from beating the ever living :censored: out of them.

Charging someone close to 18 as a juvenile ensures a "slap on the wrist." I believe the most they can be kept in custody is until they turn 18 or 21.

I wonder if they have to register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives. I think one thing is for sure. These kids, unfortunately the whole team probably, will be passed over for scholarships. It would be a media nightmare to recruit and give a scholarship to any of these kids. I also think that if any do manage to get a scholarship they won't be drafted by an NFL team unless they testify against these guys.

There was an offensive lineman in the 2012 NFL draft who was rated, talent wise, as a first round pick. He wasn't drafted. He wasn't a UFA with any team either. When he was fifteen he raped his sister. She says it was consensual. However, there wasn't a single NFL team that wanted to deal with that baggage.

 

[believe09]

I think we need to thoroughly sift what we are reading and where we are reading it from. jmvho. While I appreciate, I think, Anonymous lighting the match I think it is worth thinking about their techniques and their ability to manipulate what is out there.

I do believe we need to really think about what is rumor vs facts.

That being said, the facts are taking shape and I think this is an incredibly ugly story. The probable cause hearing material has had a huge impact on me.

It is easy for me to encourage additional victims to come forward and additional witnesses, but they are going to face a gauntlet.

FWIW, though, I think it is beyond ludicrous to continue to claim consent. It wont hold up, not even a little. There is a plea discussion going on I am willing to bet right now....

 

[time]

Charging someone close to 18 as a juvenile ensures a "slap on the wrist." I believe the most they can be kept in custody is until they turn 18 or 21.

I may be the lone dissenter on this one, but I think juveniles should be charged as juveniles always. This is just one case and there has been far too many teens being charged as adults. They are not adults. I believe if the punishment is not enough as a juvenile, then something needs to be done within the juvenile system.

In this case, I am truly appalled, no horrified, at what these kids have done, but I see a lot of adult influence on them and the influence of a culture that helped lead to this result.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I may be the lone dissenter on this one, but I think juveniles should be charged as juveniles always. This is just one case and there has been far too many teens being charged as adults. They are not adults. I believe if the punishment is not enough as a juvenile, then something needs to be done within the juvenile system.

In this case, I am truly appalled, no horrified, at what these kids have done, but I see a lot of adult influence on them and the influence of a culture that helped lead to this result.

Just an idea... That I haven't really thought through yet... But maybe juvenile court for first offenses... Then if/when there have been or are multiple offenses.. Then go to adult level?

any thoughts?

JMO

 

[believe09]

Just an idea... That I haven't really thought through yet... But maybe juvenile court for first offenses... Then if/when there have been or are multiple offenses.. Then go to adult level?

any thoughts?

JMO

Honestly, like anything, I think it is difficult to have a hard and fast rule. I think there is powerful scientific information out there on the impulsivity of a child's actions based upon their incompletely developed brain. That being said, something like this which took place over a long period of time wouldnt register to me as impulsive.

There is a complete and total disregard for this victim. It was like she was a piece of meat-she wasnt recognized as a thinking, feeling human being. By anyone. Even those who were uncomfortable and who went to check on her didnt rescue her.

How do you punish that? How do you get a perp or bystanders to see and feel that? How about MN? He is thoroughly ashamed of what exactly? His disgusting, heinous disregard for the distress and well being of a fellow human being?

This is where my conflict is. The sense of entitlement to her body is mind blowing.

 

[Steely Dan]

By 16 You should know right from wrong. These guys knew exactly what they were doing and that it was illegal because they covered it up. There is no reason they shouldn't be tried as adults. JMO

 

[time]

Just an idea... That I haven't really thought through yet... But maybe juvenile court for first offenses... Then if/when there have been or are multiple offenses.. Then go to adult level?

any thoughts?

JMO

I certainly think there are options! Knowing right from wrong, how your brain operates, developmental levels, and so on are different in childhood than adulthood. I don't think there is a magic age when on suddenly becomes an adult, but we as a society have decided that age is 18 (and 21 for some things). Trying juveniles in as adults is just a slippery slope also. I could give lots of reasons, some of which don't pertain to this case, but overall I think it is unjust.

 

[time]

Honestly, like anything, I think it is difficult to have a hard and fast rule. I think there is powerful scientific information out there on the impulsivity of a child's actions based upon their incompletely developed brain. That being said, something like this which took place over a long period of time wouldnt register to me as impulsive.

There is a complete and total disregard for this victim. It was like she was a piece of meat-she wasnt recognized as a thinking, feeling human being. By anyone. Even those who were uncomfortable and who went to check on her didnt rescue her.

How do you punish that? How do you get a perp or bystanders to see and feel that? How about MN? He is thoroughly ashamed of what exactly? His disgusting, heinous disregard for the distress and well being of a fellow human being?

This is where my conflict is. The sense of entitlement to her body is mind blowing.

BBM - and how did they get to the point where this was their heinous attitude?

My first questions after that is, where did they get the alcohol? Were there drugs and where did they get those? Whose house was available for the parties?

In the long run, I think what we all hope is that this kind of thing does not happen again, anywhere. In my mind, again, there are a lot of adults and those promoting some culture while these kids are growing up that need to sincerely look at themselves... some should be fired and possibly convicted too. I can't believe the one coach came right out and decided the victim told a story about all this because she didn't want to admit she was drunk. I can't believe the prosecutor didn't recuse herself the moment she knew this involved any connection to her - which was probably about 3 seconds after the victim and her parents started talking to her if not before that because of it's spread on social media. What is wrong with the adults and those in the community who just want to complain about being bad mouthed and so forth.

 

[LisaB]

MR’s attorney, Walter Madison, declined to discuss the accuracy of the charges. He admitted, however, that a picture circulating online featuring two males carrying a young woman who appears to be limp and unconscious includes his client.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...-charged-rape-article-1.1235478#ixzz2HPx6Nybk

 

[believe09]

Yes, the atty says this in the Anderson Cooper video.

I wonder why his family (since he was 8) are no longer his legal guardians? Was he emancipated?

 

[LisaB]

I keep wondering about the assertion that the girl gave the assailants her cell phone PIN code, but was reading an article about criminals in Bogata disabling tourists with drugs in order to rob them. I was particularly interested in this:

...in what is described as a zombie state, highly suggestible victims help thieves to rob their homes, steal their money, even take their children, never remembering a thing. According to Reuters, an embassy official recalled the case of an American that had been drugged and robbed, "He says to his doorman 'Why did you let them walk out with my stuff.' The doorman says, 'Because you told me to.'"

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/photogallery/zombie-awareness.html

I also wonder if a victim of this sort of drug might even "consent" to something due to the effect of the substance administered. How would you prove that your consent was not "real"? How would a 16 year old boy KNOW that your consent was a result of the drug? All he knows (or so a defense attorney may allege) is that she was agreeable to the idea.

 

[lonetraveler]

BBM - and how did they get to the point where this was their heinous attitude?

My first questions after that is, where did they get the alcohol? Were there drugs and where did they get those? Whose house was available for the parties?

In the long run, I think what we all hope is that this kind of thing does not happen again, anywhere. In my mind, again, there are a lot of adults and those promoting some culture while these kids are growing up that need to sincerely look at themselves... some should be fired and possibly convicted too. I can't believe the one coach came right out and decided the victim told a story about all this because she didn't want to admit she was drunk. I can't believe the prosecutor didn't recuse herself the moment she knew this involved any connection to her - which was probably about 3 seconds after the victim and her parents started talking to her if not before that because of it's spread on social media. What is wrong with the adults and those in the community who just want to complain about being bad mouthed and so forth.

Something else that I noticed during the 12 minute video of the braying jackass is the rifle with scope lying on the floor next to the braying jackass joking about an unconscious girl being raped. I'm curious as to who in heck would have drunk and most likely drugged idiots in their home with weapons lying there in reach. :banghead:

 

[time]

Something else that I noticed during the 12 minute video of the braying jackass is the rifle with scope lying on the floor next to the braying jackass joking about an unconscious girl being raped. I'm curious as to who in heck would have drunk and most likely drugged idiots in their home with weapons lying there in reach. :banghead:

Yeah, I saw that and it was a bit chilling... nothing like drunk as a skunk teenagers rambling on about someone being as dead as a dead child with a rifle (and scope?) sitting by their side. Let alone with a lot of other drunk teenagers around. Maybe it wasn't loaded but I don't think rifles belong just lying around on the floor in people homes.

 

[hollyjokers]

One of my friends posted on facebook, "picked up my grandson at school today. He was so grateful that nothing happened to him or his classmates, and his teacher who kept all of them safe."
It was enough to make me pour myself an alcoholic beverage.

Thank you vigilantes for shining the light on Steubenville, Ohio, and attracting all the vile miscreants to ride your coattails. So a four year old can be overcome with gratitude for being safe in his school. [slow clap]

 

[Linda7NJ]

Wow just watched the guardians on the today show. Seems they don't give a rats butt about the girl. They disgust me.


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[AzPistonsGirl]

I am all for trying them as juveniles - whatever that really means - but the sentencing provisions need to include something more than holding them for a few years.