Identified! OH - Troy, Miami Co., 'Buckskin Girl' WhtFem 133UFOH, 15-25, Apr'81 - Marcia King

[MelmothTheLost]

I mean, it's not really, but her ethnicity has been the topic of a lot of discussion here. Plus it's another step closer to finding out the bigger picture about Buckskin Girl.

Indeed. I was interested to see in the % data supporting one of the pie charts that both her sub-Saharan Africa and Native American scores were precisely zero. It surprised me since so very many Americans seem to be able to dredge up 1/64th Cherokee or Lakota and so many seem to have at least a small amount of sub-Saharan African heritage somewhere in the mix. If it wasn't for the fact they're finding 3rd cousins in the database it would make me wonder if she was a 1st or 2nd generation immigrant.

 

[coffeeandacig]

Indeed. I was interested to see in the % data supporting one of the pie charts that both her sub-Saharan Africa and Native American scores were precisely zero. It surprised me since so very many Americans seem to be able to dredge up 1/64th Cherokee or Lakota and so many seem to have at least a small amount of sub-Saharan African heritage somewhere in the mix. If it wasn't for the fact they're finding 3rd cousins in the database it would make me wonder if she was a 1st or 2nd generation immigrant.

This got me to thinking...
Is it possible that she is indeed one of the thousands of Irish (out of wedlock) children adopted by American and Canadian parents back in the day?

 

[abbey345]

I believe they really try to avoid contacting family... because wouldn't it be weird if Lyle's second cousins found out about Lyle's death before his mom and dad did? They are leaving contacting family to LE once they've discovered the identity and thats it I think. They would also have no way of knowing how a random person would respond to this kind of research.

Yes, that would make more sense leaving the contacting the family to LE..I would imagine that would be how they would do it..

 

[abbey345]

I never got the impression that she was Native American, but just an outdoorsy, rugged girl that looked to be of Celtic and perhaps German ancestry. I was a teenager in the early 80's, and I don't recall any of the girls that I grew up with(NE Ohio) wearing that style of clothing(esp.the buckskin jacket). This tells me that perhaps she grew up on a farm/ranch, or in the country. I could imagine her riding horses instead of hanging out at the shopping mall on weekends.

.Btw, I used to love shopping/ keeping up with the current fashions, and even had my ears pierced, but would have loved to have a horse/farm(we couldn't afford that anyways)..I do remember visiting my neighbors horse, though! He used to love us because we fed him ice cream cones as a treat.

 

[Alleykins]

I never got the impression that she was Native American, but just an outdoorsy, rugged girl that looked to be of Celtic and perhaps German ancestry. I was a teenager in the early 80's, and I don't recall any of the girls that I grew up with(NE Ohio) wearing that style of clothing(esp.the buckskin jacket). This tells me that perhaps she grew up on a farm/ranch, or in the country. I could imagine her riding horses instead of hanging out at the shopping mall on weekends.

.Btw, I used to love shopping/ keeping up with the current fashions, and even had my ears pierced, but would have loved to have a horse/farm(we couldn't afford that anyways)..I do remember visiting my neighbors horse, though! He used to love us because we fed him ice cream cones as a treat.

We fall into the same age range, LOL. We weren't wearing clothes like this in my neck of the woods, either. The only time I recall seeing a fringed jacket was in the 70s on my mother's hippie friends, and on a few bikers here and there after the 70s.

 

[leilarose68]

UPDATE from DNA Doe Project:

"Just a quick update - we've been pretty quiet because we're all working very hard on our current cases. No updates to report other than we're happy with what we're seeing. Reminder - we are not running any more kits on an individual basis. If yours is a match it will show up on our reports and we will contact you if need be. Thanks for your patience and your great questions!"

 

[rascal32]

It’s so exciting to know they are finding cousins... looks like this will finally be solved soon. Let’s throw out some guesses for fun and see if any of us are right. Most have been following for a long time and we all have our theories and thoughts on who she is. I would like to hear yours. My guesses are- First name- Mary. Birthplace- Tulsa. Age at death- 26. Only child. I also think she was somehow connected with bikers.
I don’t think her killer really knew her and possibly picked her up hitchhiking.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MelmothTheLost]

This got me to thinking...
Is it possible that she is indeed one of the thousands of Irish (out of wedlock) children adopted by American and Canadian parents back in the day?

It can't be ruled out at this stage. She was most likely born between 1955 and 1965 and AFAIK Ireland was still exporting its illegitimate children during that period.

 

[Alleykins]

It can't be ruled out at this stage. She was most likely born between 1955 and 1965 and AFAIK Ireland was still exporting its illegitimate children during that period.

Interesting. I'd never heard of that, I will have to check that out.

 

[leilarose68]

This got me to thinking...
Is it possible that she is indeed one of the thousands of Irish (out of wedlock) children adopted by American and Canadian parents back in the day?

I feel like most native Irish people are more than 50% Irish in their ancestry though... I think it's much more likely that she's Irish-American like so many Americans

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Interesting. I'd never heard of that, I will have to check that out.

This is a good starting point for the situation in Ireland, though there were other organisations involved as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Laundries_in_Ireland

The children were removed from their mothers in these institutions: some were adopted within Ireland and others were sent abroad for adoption. The adoption process was completely secret and the mothers never knew what happened to their babies.

It's worth noting that the export of children also happened in the UK well into the 1960s, though these children were generally sent to Canada, Australia and NZ rather than the US. Also they tended to be older than babies and toddlers because they effectively hit an age where they were less likely to be adopted within the UK. Many of these kids were exploited and abused, which has given rise to scandals and government apologies in recent years.

 

[carbuff]

It’s so exciting to know they are finding cousins... looks like this will finally be solved soon. Let’s throw out some guesses for fun and see if any of us are right. Most have been following for a long time and we all have our theories and thoughts on who she is. I would like to hear yours. My guesses are- First name- Mary. Birthplace- Tulsa. Age at death- 26. Only child. I also think she was somehow connected with bikers.
I don’t think her killer really knew her and possibly picked her up hitchhiking.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have a lot of possibilities that I've thought of, but no scenario that I really think is more likely than many others.

The isotope information made me wonder whether she was a college student traveling back and forth between a home in the southwest and a school in the northeast, and whether she might have had some disruption in her home life, like perhaps a divorce or a death in the family that caused them to lose track of her.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

The isotope information made me wonder whether she was a college student traveling back and forth between a home in the southwest and a school in the northeast,

Or the other way round - Boston Irish studying in the SW.

 

[rats]

Indeed. I was interested to see in the % data supporting one of the pie charts that both her sub-Saharan Africa and Native American scores were precisely zero. It surprised me since so very many Americans seem to be able to dredge up 1/64th Cherokee or Lakota and so many seem to have at least a small amount of sub-Saharan African heritage somewhere in the mix. If it wasn't for the fact they're finding 3rd cousins in the database it would make me wonder if she was a 1st or 2nd generation immigrant.

The last sentence here confuses me - she could still be an immigrant, even with third cousin matches. DNA testing does exist outside the states (while it is less prevalent) and also, I personally have tons of overseas matches while being from the USA. My first generation as a US born citizen friend has a ton of 3rd cousin matches as well from her fathers home country (Brazil). No science is perfect, though.

Im excited to see what is to come for Buckskin Girl.

 

[dotr]

Refresher.
May 09, 2016
http://www.whio.com/news/crime--law/testing-done-hair-nails-miami-jane-doe/rkTaQGuW92G7JCmGSyax9K/

Pollen analysis of the clothing suggests that she was from or spent a significant amount of time in the northeastern dry-oak forest region, which includes areas in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts and Rhode Island.

A high level of soot from vehicle traffic and/or industrial activity was also found on her clothing, according to the findings released this week, that suggest she spent a significant amount of time in an urban area within the Northeastern region or possibly from hitchhiking.

Some pollen grains found to be in excellent condition, from a more arid region in the western U.S. or northern Mexico, were found on the outer layers of her clothing, including her jeans and jacket.

This suggests she traveled to an arid region in the western U.S. or northern Mexico shortly before she was killed.

* She was in her late teens to early 20s, about 5 foot 6, 125 pounds

* She had reddish-brown hair parted down the middle, styled in two side braids

* She appeared to be Caucasian, had a ruddy complexion with facial freckles

* She had several scars: beneath her chin, one on her left arm, two on her left wrist, right hand, right ankle and right foot.

* She had been treated by a dentist. Her top right central incisor had a porcelain-metal crown

 

[Magnum P.E.]

Interesting. I'd never heard of that, I will have to check that out.

Excellent movie with Judy Dench, “Philomena”, about this very subject. I recommend it.

If she hitchhiked with truckers it might explain the soot (diesel exhaust) and traveling in two regions distant from each other. Perhaps hitchhiking with the WRONG trucker lied to her death. We may know her identity soon, but may never know who killed her. He left few clues.

 

[carbuff]

Or the other way round - Boston Irish studying in the SW.

Yes, that would fit the isotopes better, too.

 

[leilarose68]

What's interesting is thinking about the information LE has withheld about Buckskin (like in all cases) that only DNA Doe Project is privy to.

 

[Alleykins]

What's interesting is thinking about the information LE has withheld about Buckskin (like in all cases) that only DNA Doe Project is privy to.

I think BG's case is an exception, though. After speaking with one of the detectives, I'm convinced investigators aren't holding much back, mostly because there isn't much to hold back. The only exception I can think of is the detective mentioned they have several pictures of her they haven't released. Other than that, this is one of those rare cases of "what you see is what you get" and anything we don't know about her (not the crime itself) isn't due to it being withheld, but either due to no one asking or they don't have the information. That’s my take on things. The detective handling her case is very, very nice and is determined to ID her. He's made her identification his main focus. (not saying they don't care about the criminal aspect of her case, only that it is secondary to finding out who she is at this point).

 

[leilarose68]

I think BG's case is an exception, though. After speaking with one of the detectives, I'm convinced investigators aren't holding much back, mostly because there isn't much to hold back. The only exception I can think of is the detective mentioned they have several pictures of her they haven't released. Other than that, this is one of those rare cases of "what you see is what you get" and anything we don't know about her (not the crime itself) isn't due to it being withheld, but either due to no one asking or they don't have the information. That’s my take on things. The detective handling her case is very, very nice and is determined to ID her. He's made her identification his main focus. (not saying they don't care about the criminal aspect of her case, only that it is secondary to finding out who she is at this point).

I think we'd be surprised how much information they're holding back that is not super critical in identifying her. I know DNA Doe Project volunteers have to sign a confidentiality contract because of all the highly sensitive information LE gives them about Does.

Information isn't withheld for no reason, it's so that they can be sure they've found the right perpetrator, that the perp knows information the general public wouldn't. Otherwise, even if they found the right guy they might not be able to prove he was connected enough to get a conviction. It's important that they don't share everything.