Identified! OH - Troy, Miami Co., 'Buckskin Girl' WhtFem 133UFOH, 15-25, Apr'81 - Marcia King

[Billylee]

I just found this on Lori Jean Lloyd, it says her ears were piereced, so she can be ruled out as buckskin JD.

http://www.123people.ca/ext/frm?ti=...AAN_LoriLloyd.pdf&section=document&wrt_id=415

 

[tatertot]

Tina Faye Kemp was just added to Charley Project yesterday. She was 15 when she left her home in Delaware in February 1979:

DE DE - Tina Faye Kemp, 14, Felton, 3 Feb 1975 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kemp_tina.html

Her NamUs profile includes several photos, including some taken when she was younger: https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/6937/0

Does anyone think she could be the Buckskin Girl? At first glance, BG's freckles look too dark compared to Tina's, but if you look at Tina's older school photo where she's wearing the blouse with rickrack, she doesn't appear to have freckles yet, then in her photo with the pink sweater set, she has some light freckles and in her photo with the striped sweater, which I assume was her most recent school photo, she has darker freckles. If she was missing for two years her freckles could have grown darker still.

Tina "had been known to frequent horse-racing tracks in Delaware and the surrounding states," while we wondered in this thread if BG's Wrangler jeans suggested she worked with horses or for a rodeo.

There's a five-inch height difference; Tina was 5'0" or 5'1" while BG was 5'6".
BG was also about 30 pounds heavier than Tina's 95 to 100 pounds.
Tina had a mole that doesn't match the location of BG's moles.
Tina's eyes are blue; BG's were light brown.
Tina's profile states DNA is available but not yet submitted.

 

[CarlK90245]

Tina Faye Kemp was just added to Charley Project yesterday. She was 15 when she left her home in Delaware in February 1979:

DE DE - Tina Faye Kemp, 14, Felton, 3 Feb 1975 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kemp_tina.html

Her NamUs profile includes several photos, including some taken when she was younger: https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/6937/0

Does anyone think she could be the Buckskin Girl?

That is a very good resemblance.

Here's the Side By Side with the postmortem:
*** WARNING - POSTMORTEM PHOTO AT LINK ***
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums...85712000045078242S600x600Q851_zps1559f94c.jpg

I was looking at possibles for her last night, and stopped at Haymarket Jane Doe and Princess Doe (neither of which I got too excited about):
http://doenetwork.org/cases/468ufva.html
http://doenetwork.org/cases/36ufnj.html

She seems to be a little bit young (16 in April of '81), but nevertheless, Buckskin Girl looks like a pretty decent possible.

Tina's eyes don't look blue in the photo, they do look light brown (although that might be attributable to the aging of the photo). ETA: in her other photos in NamUs, her eyes are clearly blue.

I don't see any "moles" that appear to be unquestionably permanent.

The height is not too much of a concern because she still would have been growing from 14 to 16.

The close-up of her teeth in NamUs indicate gaps which are not mentioned in Buckskin Girl's NamUs file (but there were errors in BG's NamUs dental chart that needed to be corrected).

I would say that it's probably not her, but it might be worth a look anyway.

 

[Mensch]

I have been researching Mary Sprague for a long time as a possible match to this UP case. Yesterday I did a search here before submitting a possible match to "Buckskin Girl" and found that my subject had been mentioned here but each person posting ended with "it isn't her". Her ears have been discussed and the shape of her face and the geographical time line. Still, the comments were against Mary Sprague being the UP. No one said it was submitted or said this was her. So, I did some checking with all agencies involved and sure enough, this woman has not been submitted and I can't imagine why. I submitted her yesterday as a possible match.

see side by side and facial markers in file.

 

[Mensch]

The UP has a series of raised "dots" forming two lines running horizontally along the R side of her neck. The same markers appear on Mary Sprague. As for the ears, if anyone is interested: Remember, the skin and facial muscles will be sagging postmortem and that if the person is lying down, any markers on the face or neck will "shift" downward. What you may call a fold in Mary's earlobe is a fold but as so many shown here in other images, it is a natural result of her face pushing against her ears forming this characteristic.

As to time line. I figured since it was reported she had a confrontation with her boss, she could have simply walked out on her job and her life in Daytona. She was born and raised in the northern part of the country so the geographical distance is not a issue.

The buckskin jacket is not a costume. In the South they are/were common. Most were made in Mexico and some in the US but were not meant to make a statement of ethnicity or lifestyle. The UP's other clothing was not unique to that time period.

I guess we just wait on this and that is always the hardest part of the research.

 

[KLCD620]

Got the link from 1970 missing forum as below, I don't think Mary would walk away from her old life according to her best friend Denise Durante. I'm not sure whether Mary willing to turn from dress up fashion & good looking woman to average looking pigtails & buckskin clothes woman. CARL90245 did point out from his earlier post about comparing ears between Mary & UID which it doesn't match up.

http://missingpiecesshow.homestead.com/MissingPiecesEpisode57Archive.html

 

[Mensch]

Thanks for posting that article. I read it and found it very interesting. As to ears..they are like any other part of the body - they take on a different shape when in the state of decomp (see second post). I submitted this MP because this case is as reasonable as any other and I could not ignore the double line markings on the neck of both. They are obvious without enhancing the photo which shows a far better depiction.
Enhancing is not "enlarging". This involves contrast and colour curves. I don't get into why people do or do not act in ways we expect them to. I simply look for a logical set of circumstances,and physical resemblance and then leave it with the scientific process. If this is not the UP, then I just continue as I get to the case.
Thanks again for the article!

 

[CarlK90245]

Got the link from 1970 missing forum as below, I don't think Mary would walk away from her old life according to her best friend Denise Durante. I'm not sure whether Mary willing to turn from dress up fashion & good looking woman to average looking pigtails & buckskin clothes woman. CARL90245 did point out from his earlier post about comparing ears between Mary & UID which it doesn't match up.

http://missingpiecesshow.homestead.com/MissingPiecesEpisode57Archive.html

Mensch's explanation that the folds in BG's ears are a postmortem effect sounds plausible.

And I see what Mensch is saying about the raised dots right over the neck muscle that spans from behind the ear to the sternum. At first glance, I thought it was scratches caused by her killer. But it could be a permanent marker, and if they aren't the same person that would be a pretty interesting coincidence that MS has those marks in exactly the same place.

Judging from their overall "look". I don't see the resemblance. But taking their facial features individually (except the ears), there are a very strong similarities. The first things I usually focus on are glabella (i.e., the top of nose above the bridge), cheekbones (not to be confused with the flesh of the cheeks), and chin. Mary is very consistent to BG at all three points. Add in their exaggerated way that they shape their eyebrows, and it could very well be her, despite the above mentioned lack of overall resemblance. I must admit that I would be shocked if it was because I looked pretty closely several times, and despite the above mentioned similarities, I concluded that it probably wasn't her.

As for circumstances, a detective told me a couple of weeks ago that it's not implausible that someone who seemingly is satisfied with their life decides to stage their disappearance and start a new life. He said that he has seen that happen on a few occasions.

 

[Mensch]

Mensch's explanation that the folds in BG's ears are a postmortem effect sounds plausible.
... But taking their facial features individually (except the ears), there are a very strong similarities. The first things I usually focus on are glabella (i.e., the top of nose above the bridge), cheekbones (not to be confused with the flesh of the cheeks), and chin. Mary is very consistent to BG at all three points. Add in their exaggerated way that they shape their eyebrows, and it could very well be her, despite the above mentioned lack of overall resemblance. I must admit that I would be shocked if it was because I looked pretty closely several times, and despite the above mentioned similarities, I concluded that it probably wasn't her.

As for circumstances, a detective told me a couple of weeks ago that it's not implausible that someone who seemingly is satisfied with their life decides to stage their disappearance and start a new life. He said that he has seen that happen on a few occasions.

I agree with your priorities of focus. However, the most often point of error in judgement for anyone scanning photos is the nose. We can see an example of that by looking at the UP frontal and side view. She looks completely different. I never use just one photo unless that is all there is. Depending on the lighting a nose can appear to take on several different shapes. Even Mary's nose appears different in her photos. There is one where it does appear more pointed than the other two.

I am not sure I would call some 'walk-aways" beginning a new life. There have been some who just needed to get away for a week or two - found the experience promicing and more appealing than what was behind and then never got the chance to return to reality. Mary was only missing approximately 6 months, IF this is is the up. Many women and men have been gone for longer and returned home. I guess the operative word here is "seemingly". We never really know what another is going through even if we live with them 24/7

 

[Mensch]

Does anyone know about the following information or the website it came from? I find this information very confusing and if this was something kept from the public then LE is more inept than I know them to be.
Describing the physical appearance of the "Buckskin Girl"

..."Her teeth were in excellent condition and she had a plate. She was in a very good physical condition and was a very well-kept person.
If you have any information about this case, please contact:
Detective Lee McCartney
937-440-3965 ext. 6632

What does the word "plate" mean? I have only heard it in reference to 'dental plate' as in false teeth.
http://www.unidentified-persons.org/pg21.html

 

[CarlK90245]

Does anyone know about the following information or the website it came from? I find this information very confusing and if this was something kept from the public then LE is more inept than I know them to be.
Describing the physical appearance of the "Buckskin Girl"

..."Her teeth were in excellent condition and she had a plate. She was in a very good physical condition and was a very well-kept person.
If you have any information about this case, please contact:
Detective Lee McCartney
937-440-3965 ext. 6632

What does the word "plate" mean? I have only heard it in reference to 'dental plate' as in false teeth.
http://www.unidentified-persons.org/pg21.html

I'm guessing maybe a retainer. But that's a good question.

They previously said that she was missing a tooth #8 with a single restoration, and then they changed it to say that she had a capped tooth #8 (that being the single restored tooth). Perhaps she did have a missing tooth, and the plate contained a single false tooth.

If that's the case, then we are back to the question of which tooth was the single restored tooth.

 

[carbuff]

There's an orthodontic device that's referred to as a plate -- my daughter had one. It cover the palate, presses against the insides of the teeth and jaw, and has a screw device that can be expanded gradually to force the upper jaw to widen, in cases where the lower jaw is bigger than the upper jaw.

That's usually used when a person is still quite young and the skull is growing, though. This girl seems a bit old for it.

 

[Mensch]

I'm guessing maybe a retainer. But that's a good question.

They previously said that she was missing a tooth #8 with a single restoration, and then they changed it to say that she had a capped tooth #8 (that being the restored tooth). Perhaps she did have a missing tooth, and the plate contained a single false tooth.

If that's the case, then we are back to the question of which tooth was the single restored tooth.

You are correct! There is still a discrepancy on the restoration. If this were a single tooth then that is generally referred to as a "bridge" because it is attached to the teeth on each side by a wire. That is the ONLY thing I know about dental work and it is because I have such a bridge - one tooth.

I did send an email to the Detective with the url and asked him to clarify. Not bettin' the ranch on a reasonable answer though. Thanks Carl.

 

[Mensch]

There's an orthodontic device that's referred to as a plate -- my daughter had one. It cover the palate, presses against the insides of the teeth and jaw, and has a screw device that can be expanded gradually to force the upper jaw to widen, in cases where the lower jaw is bigger than the upper jaw.

That's usually used when a person is still quite young and the skull is growing, though. This girl seems a bit old for it.

Ouch! Sounds painful. Is this something that a dental specialist would have to do? Is this common?If so then I am wondering why identification would be so difficult? Sorry carbuff...if you have been following this then you already know I am clueless as to dentals.

 

[carbuff]

Ouch! Sounds painful. Is this something that a dental specialist would have to do? Is this common?If so then I am wondering why identification would be so difficult? Sorry carbuff...if you have been following this then you already know I am clueless as to dentals.

I only know that my daughter had one -- it's a standard orthodontic procedure. Not the most common, but not rare either. It expands very gradually, and while the skull is growing anyway, so no more discomfort than most braces.

It probably would help identify her, if it came to the attention of her orthodontist. But as I said, she seems a bit old for it.

 

[reasypeasy]

I had a plate too, when I was about ten. They don't hurt, most of it feels quite inert in the mouth and the only time I felt pressure was for an hour or so after turning the screw at night. The pressure felt a bit like pushing gently on a tooth with my finger. The scew was right in the middle of the plastic that covered my palate, and I used a little metal rod to turn it at night, as many turns as the dentist had told me at the last visit.

My parents chose a plate rather than braces because we have a history of bad enamel, extensive decay and early tooth loss in my family, and a plate carries less decay risk because you can remove it several times a day to brush teeth and clean the plate. Braces would have moved my teeth more and given a more movie-star perfect effect, but the plate did the job pretty well, nobody would say I have badly positioned teeth. Also, the plate was cheaper by a couple of thousand back in 1980, which wasn't an issue because we had good health cover, but could be an issue for some.

 

[tatertot]

The quote about BG having a plate came from a March 17, 2001 Dayton Daily Times article and is archived here:

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=6667

I submitted the potential match with Tina Faye Kemp on October 6 and received a reply (the same day!) from the Miami County Sheriff's Office that they would await a CODIS comparison once Kemp's DNA sample is processed, considering there were quite a few dissimilarities between the two.

Mensch, Lt. Steve Lord from the MCSO is a great contact and wrote back promptly when I sent him potential matches, even when I accidentally sent him the Sharon Pretorius match that I should have known was a CODIS rule-out. If you feel more comfortable corresponding with him because of your law enforcement background, I'm in no way asking you to do all the work on this one but there are a few things I'd meant to ask but haven't yet:

Was there any indication she had ever given birth? (And for that matter, did Mary have her son by c-section? Maybe not if she was an exotic dancer and wouldn't want a scar, but considering that even small scars are documented in the NamUs profile, it seems safe to assume that BG did not have a c-section scar.)

At least one online article suggests BG had been a prostitute without giving any particular reason why anyone came to that conclusion. Did this theory come from her simply being found near an interstate highway, as other murdered prostitutes had been found, or was there other evidence? The MCSO investigated the highway murders in the early 90s, according to the same article linked above. The article also mentions a UID woman found strangled on I-70 in Englewood in 1987; she was recently identified as Paula Beverly Davis, who had disappeared from Kansas City, Missouri only fourteen hours earlier. Davis was not involved in prostitution.

Also, this doesn't really help the investigation but she might have braided her hair for practical reasons even if braids weren't her everyday style. If you had hair that long and you knew you'd be walking outdoors all day, you'd want to braid it so the wind wouldn't tangle it and blow it in your eyes. Even pulling it into a ponytail would leave some tangling to deal with.

 

[CarlK90245]

Please check this woman out, Beverly England, and see what you think. ...

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/england_beverly.html

One of the Porchlight posts in tatertot's link indicates that Beverly England was ruled out by Chaffee County Sheriff.

BTW, Paula Beverly Davis, who tatertot just mentioned above was known as the "Blue Bandanna Girl" until she was identified earlier this year.

 

[lieber32]

I only know that my daughter had one -- it's a standard orthodontic procedure. Not the most common, but not rare either. It expands very gradually, and while the skull is growing anyway, so no more discomfort than most braces.

It probably would help identify her, if it came to the attention of her orthodontist. But as I said, she seems a bit old for it.

Since I was born with a deformed jaw and have had extensive work I thought I would share my knowledge. I started seeing an oral surgeon when I was six. Said my jaw had to be developed. I have had excellent dental care throughout my life and my dad is a retired lawyer. At thirteen they still told my family I would need to wait a couple years before getting braces. At fifteen they put on plates, by seventeen I had braces and plate removed and at seventeen almost eighteen had extensive surgery on my jaw. Didn't get my braces removed until I was twenty. My upper jaw also was smaller then my lower and had to be corrected by both plate and surgery. I remember the plates being kinda painful when they did them but can't remember having them removed. I can still remember the kind dental assistant that installed them, even certain things about her life like her family, catholic church, etc. FYI I can even remember my brackets from braces being removed and how painful that was so when I read about the unidentified that had brackets removed no way could I have done that myself, ouch does it hurt and it seemed not an easy task even at the orthodontist office.

 

[Mensch]

The quote about BG having a plate came from a March 17, 2001 Dayton Daily Times article and is archived here:

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=6667

I submitted the potential match with Tina Faye Kemp on October 6 and received a reply (the same day!) from the Miami County Sheriff's Office that they would await a CODIS comparison once Kemp's DNA sample is processed, considering there were quite a few dissimilarities between the two.

Mensch, Lt. Steve Lord from the MCSO is a great contact and wrote back promptly when I sent him potential matches, even when I accidentally sent him the Sharon Pretorius match that I should have known was a CODIS rule-out. If you feel more comfortable corresponding with him because of your law enforcement background, I'm in no way asking you to do all the work on this one but there are a few things I'd meant to ask but haven't yet:

Was there any indication she had ever given birth? (And for that matter, did Mary have her son by c-section? Maybe not if she was an exotic dancer and wouldn't want a scar, but considering that even small scars are documented in the NamUs profile, it seems safe to assume that BG did not have a c-section scar.)

At least one online article suggests BG had been a prostitute without giving any particular reason why anyone came to that conclusion. Did this theory come from her simply being found near an interstate highway, as other murdered prostitutes had been found, or was there other evidence? The MCSO investigated the highway murders in the early 90s, according to the same article linked above. The article also mentions a UID woman found strangled on I-70 in Englewood in 1987; she was recently identified as Paula Beverly Davis, who had disappeared from Kansas City, Missouri only fourteen hours earlier. Davis was not involved in prostitution.

Also, this doesn't really help the investigation but she might have braided her hair for practical reasons even if braids weren't her everyday style. If you had hair that long and you knew you'd be walking outdoors all day, you'd want to braid it so the wind wouldn't tangle it and blow it in your eyes. Even pulling it into a ponytail would leave some tangling to deal with.

tatertot,
Thanks for the information. All I can say is BG did not have a 'plate'. I have asked all the above questions and more. I won't speculate on Mary's lifestyle other than to say she cared far too much about her personal appearance and condition to be one to travel and frequent truck stops. Just an opinion. As to the braided hair. Mary had thick dense hair and in some pics it seemed to be prone to the 'frizzys". In the south during that period if a female lived in a high humidity area and had that type hair it was common to braid it to get a certain look without rollers or perms. When the braids were undone the hair had a fuller almost wavy look. Can't explain it but it was not uncommon for a casual look then. I have a good rapport with the case manager and I have no doubt about how this case will be investigated. That is one tenacious and caring individual who knows her way around LE attitudes.

ETA: sorry for the late reply. I just saw your post this am.