OH OH - William 'Bill' Comeans, 14, Columbus, 7 Jan 1980 - #1

[MCDRAW]

Wow, I was busy typing my last post and did not see Bob's post (#520) until now.
This raises many red flags for me. I will have many questions that need answers. Let me gather my thoughts.

ETA: Just a thought. Public discussion on certain key points may not be in the best interest on Bob's/Kats behalf.
I will choose any following subject matter with care, so as not to jeopardize the family's best interest.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[MCDRAW]

Very confused on LEO, Bob.
Your top quoted post says 2-4 LEO on scene.
Your bottom quoted post says only the 1 LEO on scene, taking pictures.
I realize you said "Don't recall other LEO on scene at my departure, although there may have been." but it seems to tell me you're not sure if there was only 1 LEO or if there was maybe 4 LEO's?

In any case, did *any* LEO speak, or offer to help in rendering CPR aid at any time?
Was there only 1 LEO that was taking pictures WHILE you were performing CPR on Bill? Did any LEO get up close and near Bill before you started CPR, or while the CPR process was ongoing?

When I got a call informing me of my brother's death, I eventually called my husband. Later I was telling someone about calling him and telling them the conversation and my husband said, that is not the conversation we had. Bob and his family were in shock. I'm surprised he remembers as much as he does.

 

[MCDRAW]

I think that LE had already decided that this was a suicide so the quote from the teacher was seen as confirmation of their belief rather than a red flag about the teacher. In the news article posted earlier, from 1981, LE stated that the coroner only labeled the case a homicide to keep it open but LE felt it was not.

But what made them suspect suicide? It seems to me it would be hard for Bill to strangle himself without hanging. How could he keep the pressure up while unconscious?

 

[MCDRAW]

The home of AJT lies directly across the street, in fact, centered between Comeans home and the home "2 doors down" where Kat was attending the birthday party. A perfect vantage point to view both residences.

I have also maintained a very "uneasy feeling" throughout this case about that "AJT family" across the street. I also strongly feel that LE did a far insufficient job of investigating them, and many other areas of this crime, but especially "them".

I agree.

 

[ZaZara]

I agree.

You agree with Methodical's feeling that LE did not enough to investigate AJT and her family.

Do you have any proof of this or indication? Based on what?

I am really curious about this, because the first two attacks occurred while Bill was away from the Comeans' home and way out of sight of the AJT family home.
If they wanted to kill him from the beginning, as you state in an earlier post, what relevance has the location of the AJT home? They could not possibly see that he left his friend's home, for instance, just take a look at the map.

:fence:

 

[MCDRAW]

You agree with Methodical's feeling that LE did not enough to investigate AJT and her family.

Do you have any proof of this or indication? Based on what?

I am really curious about this, because the first two attacks occurred while Bill was away from the Comeans' home and way out of sight of the AJT family home.
If they wanted to kill him from the beginning, as you state in an earlier post, what relevance has the location of the AJT home? They could not possibly see that he left his friend's home, for instance, just take a look at the map.


I personally don't feel like LE has done a very thorough investigation on this case, on AJT, or anyone associated with this case. JMO. So you think the people that lived in the AJT home never left their home? I don't know enough information about them to say anything for certain except to say that, in my opinion, there wasn't enough investigation on her or anyone else. JMO

 

[Tulessa]

You agree with Methodical's feeling that LE did not enough to investigate AJT and her family.

Do you have any proof of this or indication? Based on what?

I am really curious about this, because the first two attacks occurred while Bill was away from the Comeans' home and way out of sight of the AJT family home.
If they wanted to kill him from the beginning, as you state in an earlier post, what relevance has the location of the AJT home? They could not possibly see that he left his friend's home, for instance, just take a look at the map.


I personally don't feel like LE has done a very thorough investigation on this case, on AJT, or anyone associated with this case. JMO. So you think the people that lived in the AJT home never left their home? I don't know enough information about them to say anything for certain except to say that, in my opinion, there wasn't enough investigation on her or anyone else. JMO

Thank you!

 

[rosemadderlake]

If the body was found eight feet (8’) +/- from the side of the curve, rounding the corner of Buena Vista, and down slight incline toward the RR tracks with trees partially obstructing the path, then he was not killed and just dumped on the side of the road. “Why not?” (That was a good question…) --I’ll add that the killer (s) must have known there wasn’t much time. Eight feet off the road means a cumbersome carrying of a dead body, maybe staging a scene, and exiting the scene in the get-away car--which could also be a potential liability, as evidence in a murder investigation, and risky, parked especially.

-Did Bill meet his killer there? -Or, was he running from them? -Cut through and down Buena Vista? Were the killers walking home, calmly up the street, afterwards?

If he knew his killer, was this someone who could have been a sympathetic person all along, only waiting for the opportunity? Is it possible that Bill could ID his attackers, but did not know the actual killer was a person he thought he trusted, someone who could get him to the murder site? How many killers; one, two, or three? The attacks 1 & 2 are very foggy-- I think however Bill got there (threat, pretense or lure), if there was no car, his killer quite possibly lived in the neighborhood. The attacks and murder all happened in the evening, and the locations are in close proximity within the neighborhood-

My first impression was also that Bill knew his killer.

 

[ZaZara]

The polygraph has been bothering me ever since I read about it.
Basically, I do not understand why this was done.
The moment Bill returned to the house after the second attack, everybody saw right away that his clothes were dry even though it was raining or it had been raining that evening. Bob tells us as much:

He never made any mention of what attackers may have said to him in either of the first two events. After the second attack, when he was missing for hours, he finally knocked on the front door, I looked out and it was him. It was wet, and possibly rainy outside that night, but his clothes were dry. I asked him and he said he had been tossed under a large bush

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - SPOTLIGHT CASE OH - Bill Comeans, 15, Columbus, 7 Jan 1980 - Family Seeks Info thru Social Media


If you don't tell your brother, what good (if any) will a polygraph do? Squeeze information out of a fourteen year old like lemon juice? If later LE concluded at some time that this was an accidental suicide, was it wise to let a potential suicidal minor undergo a polygraph? Odd psychology.

I would really like to clarify the following points and I hope that someone has factual information on this topic:

Around the time that this happened, 1980, was it customary to use a polygraph on victims denouncing a crime?
Was it customary to use a polygraph on minors?
Was that allowed, legally?
Did parents have to give permission?
Did the minor have to agree beforehand?

 

[nerosleuth]

I watched the WBNS-TV 6:00 p.m. news tonight in Columbus. WBNS-TV is reporting that Bill's sister is still seeking answers about her brother's death.

The Franklin County Sheriff told WBNS-TV that the DNA sample in the Comeans case is so small.

The sheriff also feared if it is used once to be tested, that dna sample may be gone forever.

So it looks like DNA testing hasn't been done on this case so far.


http://www.10tv.com/content/stories...-murdered-teen-still-looking-for-answers.html

 

[rosesfromangels]

I watched the WBNS-TV 6:00 p.m. news tonight in Columbus. WBNS-TV is reporting that Bill's sister is still seeking answers about her brother's death.

The Franklin County Sheriff told WBNS-TV that the DNA sample in the Comeans case is so small.

The sheriff also feared if it is used once to be tested, that dna sample may be gone forever.

So it looks like DNA testing hasn't been done on this case so far.


http://www.10tv.com/content/stories...-murdered-teen-still-looking-for-answers.html

We thank the Franklin County Sheriff's office for their efforts. Sounds like it's time to uplevel this to the state level and get additional expertise to assist with this analysis.

 

[21merc7]

The polygraph has been bothering me ever since I read about it.
Basically, I do not understand why this was done.
The moment Bill returned to the house after the second attack, everybody saw right away that his clothes were dry even though it was raining or it had been raining that evening. Bob tells us as much:



Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - SPOTLIGHT CASE OH - Bill Comeans, 15, Columbus, 7 Jan 1980 - Family Seeks Info thru Social Media


If you don't tell your brother, what good (if any) will a polygraph do? Squeeze information out of a fourteen year old like lemon juice? If later LE concluded at some time that this was an accidental suicide, was it wise to let a potential suicidal minor undergo a polygraph? Odd psychology.

I would really like to clarify the following points and I hope that someone has factual information on this topic:

Around the time that this happened, 1980, was it customary to use a polygraph on victims denouncing a crime?
Was it customary to use a polygraph on minors?
Was that allowed, legally?
Did parents have to give permission?
Did the minor have to agree beforehand?

I cannot say in Bill's case what happened, but can tell you about a situation in my home town and the time frame is the same.

Back then, some small towns still had LE that would come by on parents request to get a child to tell the truth, say about stealing a piece of candy, and get the child to pay for the candy, and hopefully scare them away from a start in a criminal lifestyle.

Two ten year olds didn't come home one night for dinner on time on the street behind me. They didn't come home until after 9 p.m. When they got home they told their parents they had been kidnapped. Well, the parents called LE. LE came, parents and LE knew the children's story made no sense, nor would they be home a couple hours later if they were kidnapped. So, LE took them to the station for questioning and lie detectors tests. The children were scared enough to tell the truth. They had simply been playing in the woods behind the house and made up the lie about kidnapping to keep from getting into trouble.

In this situation, it may be the same. Bill's stories make no logical sense, and he is not giving any details, so they have to try to pull the truth out of him. They may have thought he was making it up to cover for something he himself was doing, alone or with someone else.

Not saying that is what happened, but it seems they didn't have a choice if he was refusing to give details or any sort of story that made logical sense. Being dry under a bush after being there for hours does not make logical sense, nor does being passed out for that long from being choked. So, with allegations of attacks, they had to try to force the truth out so they could find the attackers in order to charge them and keep any further harm to Bill or others from happening, and to get to the truth, in order to know how to proceed.

JMO

 

[Stratford258]

And if there were two assailants/killers, there would be a need for coordination of effort.

The closest I can come to imagining something is two guys and a van or other vehicle (murder scene on wheels), and possibly a chemical to render Bill unconscious. I can also see him being taken by surprise by it turning out to be someone he knew.

Okay, I'm starting to ramble ... I'm going to shut it down and put the rest of you out of your misery. Night all

Granted, I'm not through reading all of the posts in this thread, but it's unclear to me whether there were two assailants at each attack, or whether there was just one assailant at each of the two attacks (assumed to be two different assailants).

Can someone clarify?

 

[ZaZara]

Granted, I'm not through reading all of the posts in this thread, but it's unclear to me whether there were two assailants at each attack, or whether there was just one assailant at each of the two attacks (assumed to be two different assailants).

Can someone clarify?

Two (young) men on the first attack ad two (young) men on the second attack. Assumed to be the same ones on both occasions.

Information about the case can be found in a separate thread:
William Comeans: Media, Facts, Timeline and Maps **NO DISCUSSION** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Thanks to Bessie!

 

[rosemadderlake]

Posted by Bob: “First attack. Why leave a warning note if you believed victim was dead. Who are you warning at that point? Why leave something that could point back at yourself?


Bbm: good question.
Imo -A really disturbing aspect of this case is that the notes penned after Bill’s death named the children in the neighborhood. Why was someone (she) tracking the children? I’d be hard pressed to name seven or eight children in my neighborhood off the top of my head. I’d have to do some research. Who had access to what information about the neighborhood? Department of Taxation and Post office would be two sources.

One article said the neighbors gathered at the Comean’s house to discuss their fears after the second wave of threats. Was this an opportunity to glean information about the homicide investigation?

-I also wonder about the findings and analysis of the notes (threat) comparisons. -And the style of the threats. Were they similar, but not exact? Same question for the handwriting. Who else knew the exact content of the notes before the murder? Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that there were people from the neighborhood who submitted handwriting samples after the second wave of threats, but is that list complete?

Did everything go quiet after the arrest of AJT? No more threats, no notes in school, or neighborhood. -No one else targeted. Yet, somehow it was written off as a mental case, as if that really explains these actions of penning 15-20 death threats over a three month span of time.

-I am wondering about the profile analysis of a killer who would ‘leave a trail pointing back at themselves’, as in toying with LE, and playing deadly cat and mouse in a neighborhood. -There are very sadistic elements in the notes, the attacks, the murder, and the terror in the neighborhood that followed. In 1980, was the “bizarre case” too beyond the scope of regular homicide for the investigation? -How did the investigation sort out what was connected, or irrelevant? -And, what would hold up to be true or false upon a review of this case 30 plus years later.

LE is not infallible, and their willingness to reopen a cold case shows there is a basis to do so. –But are they hanging the whole thing on DNA? -I hope not.

 

[KatCo]

I watched the WBNS-TV 6:00 p.m. news tonight in Columbus. WBNS-TV is reporting that Bill's sister is still seeking answers about her brother's death.

The Franklin County Sheriff told WBNS-TV that the DNA sample in the Comeans case is so small.

The sheriff also feared if it is used once to be tested, that dna sample may be gone forever.

So it looks like DNA testing hasn't been done on this case so far.


http://www.10tv.com/content/stories...-murdered-teen-still-looking-for-answers.html

Thanks for posting this, haven't been able to log in for awhile.
Still trying to push for the DNA to be tested, won't know what it holds until it is.

 

[ZaZara]

Posted by Bob: “First attack. Why leave a warning note if you believed victim was dead. Who are you warning at that point? Why leave something that could point back at yourself?


Bbm: good question.
Imo -A really disturbing aspect of this case is that the notes penned after Bill’s death named the children in the neighborhood. Why was someone (she) tracking the children? I’d be hard pressed to name seven or eight children in my neighborhood off the top of my head. I’d have to do some research. Who had access to what information about the neighborhood? Department of Taxation and Post office would be two sources.

One article said the neighbors gathered at the Comean’s house to discuss their fears after the second wave of threats. Was this an opportunity to glean information about the homicide investigation?

-I also wonder about the findings and analysis of the notes (threat) comparisons. -And the style of the threats. Were they similar, but not exact? Same question for the handwriting. Who else knew the exact content of the notes before the murder? Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that there were people from the neighborhood who submitted handwriting samples after the second wave of threats, but is that list complete?

Did everything go quiet after the arrest of AJT? No more threats, no notes in school, or neighborhood. -No one else targeted. Yet, somehow it was written off as a mental case, as if that really explains these actions of penning 15-20 death threats over a three month span of time.

-I am wondering about the profile analysis of a killer who would ‘leave a trail pointing back at themselves’, as in toying with LE, and playing deadly cat and mouse in a neighborhood. -There are very sadistic elements in the notes, the attacks, the murder, and the terror in the neighborhood that followed. In 1980, was the “bizarre case” too beyond the scope of regular homicide for the investigation? -How did the investigation sort out what was connected, or irrelevant? -And, what would hold up to be true or false upon a review of this case 30 plus years later.

LE is not infallible, and their willingness to reopen a cold case shows there is a basis to do so. –But are they hanging the whole thing on DNA? -I hope not.

I am not sure that children were named, I was under the impression that the letters were adressed to the parents.
The persons who were named, were female in the age bracket of 7 to 50 years. It is easy to know the first names of your neighbors of the same generation.

Messages reported in press:

Parents should guard their children carefully, signed X.
“Time is short”
“[Name] is next” (seven neighborhood females, aged 7-50, were specifically named across in these notes)
“All have been warned”
“Death in October”
“U R Next”
“It’s time.” (left the night before Halloween)

LE have declared that AJT is NOT A SUSPECT in the death of BC.
When reading what we are told about the notes, it is easily understood that they were interpreted as threats at the time.
However, once you know that they were written by someone on the verge of a mental breakdown (she spent three weeks in the University Hospital after Halloween) you can also read those notes as very frightened about evil that might happen even if this was only happening in her confused mind.

If she was playing a cat-and-mouse game, she wasn't very good at it. Whoever left the first series of notes in the lockers did a lot better.

Exact charge is “did recklessly cause inconvenience, annoyance, and alarm to other persons by engaging in threatening harm to such persons when taken in the context of the death of William Comeans,” a misdemeanor.
Mrs. Comeans says of her, “She was a good friend, but I don’t even want to look at her.”

Thanks to GoingByMyGut for collecting all these facts!

 

[ZaZara]

I cannot say in Bill's case what happened, but can tell you about a situation in my home town and the time frame is the same.

Back then, some small towns still had LE that would come by on parents request to get a child to tell the truth, say about stealing a piece of candy, and get the child to pay for the candy, and hopefully scare them away from a start in a criminal lifestyle.

Two ten year olds didn't come home one night for dinner on time on the street behind me. They didn't come home until after 9 p.m. When they got home they told their parents they had been kidnapped. Well, the parents called LE. LE came, parents and LE knew the children's story made no sense, nor would they be home a couple hours later if they were kidnapped. So, LE took them to the station for questioning and lie detectors tests. The children were scared enough to tell the truth. They had simply been playing in the woods behind the house and made up the lie about kidnapping to keep from getting into trouble.

In this situation, it may be the same. Bill's stories make no logical sense, and he is not giving any details, so they have to try to pull the truth out of him. They may have thought he was making it up to cover for something he himself was doing, alone or with someone else.

Not saying that is what happened, but it seems they didn't have a choice if he was refusing to give details or any sort of story that made logical sense. Being dry under a bush after being there for hours does not make logical sense, nor does being passed out for that long from being choked. So, with allegations of attacks, they had to try to force the truth out so they could find the attackers in order to charge them and keep any further harm to Bill or others from happening, and to get to the truth, in order to know how to proceed.

JMO

Thank you for explaning this. I still cannot understand the nation's addiction to dubious polygraphs, but the sheriff in a small village lending a hand is something I can relate to. Am I right that such a polygraph would never make it into a file or a report?
I also looked up Columbus, Ohio. Number of inhabitants in 1980 was well over half a million. *sigh* Maybe it was a big cluster of tiny villages? *wink*

I agree that getting to the truth was essential and LE did the right thing, but maybe by the wrong means. After all, a fourteen year old is different from a ten year old. And a polygraph cannot tell you who the perps were or what really happened. LE would be aware of those limitations beforehand. They worry now that they might spill the DNA sample, but way back then they lost the chance of building a relationship of trust with Bill. At least, that's my impression. But this is one of those confusing points, since Bob mentions also that LE came to the Comeans' home often (in relation with the attacks).

If the polygraph was indeed used only to help, it nevertheless did achieve an 'official status' along the way. LE mentioned it to the press for instance.
Keeps me wondering about it's legal status.

 

[21merc7]

Thank you for explaning this. I still cannot understand the nation's addiction to dubious polygraphs, but the sheriff in a small village lending a hand is something I can relate to. Am I right that such a polygraph would never make it into a file or a report?
I also looked up Columbus, Ohio. Number of inhabitants in 1980 was well over half a million. *sigh* Maybe it was a big cluster of tiny villages? *wink*

I agree that getting to the truth was essential and LE did the right thing, but maybe by the wrong means. After all, a fourteen year old is different from a ten year old. And a polygraph cannot tell you who the perps were or what really happened. LE would be aware of those limitations beforehand. They worry now that they might spill the DNA sample, but way back then they lost the chance of building a relationship of trust with Bill. At least, that's my impression. But this is one of those confusing points, since Bob mentions also that LE came to the Comeans' home often (in relation with the attacks).

If the polygraph was indeed used only to help, it nevertheless did achieve an 'official status' along the way. LE mentioned it to the press for instance.
Keeps me wondering about it's legal status.

Oh Zara, I don't know what happened in Bill's case. It sounds to me that they couldn't get him to talk so they went the route I mentioned, and I could be extremely wrong.

If they did a poly, and it was mentioned in the news, then they had strong reasons and it is part of the "record".

Personally, I do not like polys, but I work for defense attorneys, so we all know they are notoriously useless and frowned upon. However, if with a younger person that is not of a criminal mind, the results may be more clear than say those hardened criminals.

The children I mentioned never made it to poly, they spilled the beans before it got there. But they were a few years younger.

Bill was holding back info to protect someone is the way I would have looked at what we have been told about what he was saying. However, saying you are attacked means everyone must be looked into and watched, even if you do not know the attacker. There should be some record of police observation and questioning in the "record" of many, at least before the poly, and some after.

ETA: To address the bad psychology, they still did not have a choice. I don't normally stand up for LE and polys at all. No matter the approach, I'm sure they played just talk with me nice guy too, they did not have a choice to actually do it. Not just threaten to do it. If the parents were asked to allow the poly, the siblings may not know.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

The problem I have with the idea of the polygraph being used as a scare tactic is that it was not conducted by local LE. From the timeline (BBM):

10/22/79, Monday Second Assault (Attempted Murder?)

Four days later, Bill takes a polygraph test at Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation in London, Ohio.
​

JMO, but I don't think they would take a scare tactic to that level.